- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
Canada to ban the Flipper Zero to stop surge in car thefts::The Canadian government plans to ban the Flipper Zero and similar devices after tagging them as tools thieves can use to steal cars.
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Classic response, don’t hold the billion dollar corpos who actually design and manufacture the cars responsible. Ban the little device that exposes the flaws in their designs.
Yeah, let’s entirely outlaw pentesting while we’re at it. What could possibly go wrong? 🙈
Lets outlaw devices that could be used for pentesting while we’re at it. PCs, laptops, phones, etc.
Brains. Technically that is the most useful device when pentesting. Along with curiosity. Altho on the former, I believe we, as a society, have actually started to…
SDR manufacturers with billion dollar government contracts:
Don’t forget paperclips, string, and aerosol cans. Hell, we should probably just ban wire altogether.
Lock picks are still legal in Canada
It doesn’t even do that
The sheer cognitive dissonance of everyone in this thread saying “criminals don’t follow laws so banning this will do nothing!!” But will turn around and say “dur it’ll with guns though,” is painful.
Build multi-use guns with hobbyist supplies in your house and then we’ll talk
Bro you can make an ak-47 out of a shovel.
https://militaryhumor.net/homemade-ak-47-made-from-shovel/
The FGC-9 is a gun designed to be built only from common hardware store tools and a shitty 3d printer and has been used by even the myanmar rebel forces who built it themselves. (Also you can build 3d printers themselves from hardware store and hobbyist electronics store supplies).
Guns are just metal tubes with some extra bits, as knowledge and materials get better, making them gets easier. You’re making this statement like it hasn’t been a common thing for years
You may be right. From my understanding it was quite difficult to build a weapon that is accurate and functional after several shots. Either way it seems quite a bit more involved and more dangerous to the builder than a breadboard and a radio transmitter you can buy off the shelf.
Lol you can this isn’t even a new concept
Might as well outlaw crowbars because they can be used to break into houses…
Fucking idiots who’s microwaves blink midnight for decades think they can make meaningful decisions about tech.
That’s all Trudeau has been good for, for years, attempting to appear to do something about a problem but never, never, ever, actually fixing anything, but also inconveniencing/ removing rights or making criminals out of ancillary people to the actual issue.
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Yeah, since we can’t stop murderers, we should do nothing about it.
We can’t stop murderers, so let’s band all guns, knives, baseball bats and tire irons.
I do agree with the gun part, the rest are up to serious debate.
They were being sarcastic.
I know.
The thing we should do is to hold car manufacturers accountable for neglecting security in cars.
Remember, the “s” in IoT stands for security.
nice one
Banning flipper is exactly that- doing nothing- because you can’t actually use one to steal a car.
Let’s establish an international anti-murder day. It won’t save anyone, but at least we did SOMETHING!
Flipper Zero can’t be used to hijack any car, specifically the ones produced after the 1990s, since their security systems have rolling codes
So actually doing nothing.
God I love these shit analogies.
Here’s the thing: banning murder hurts absolutely no one and accomplishes a lot.
Banning Flipper Zero, however they decide to do it, hurts hobbyists and helps no one.
See how your analogy is the opposite of reality?
If you truly want to solve something then you have to make some draconian-like laws and enforce it with rigorous effort. Sometimes the harshest measures are the safest measures.
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Ok PolPot
Ah, thank you!🥰
“If you want to stop murders just ban kitchen knives.” --canadian politicians
5 years later:
“If you want to stop murders just ban scissors.”
- canadian politicians
That’s not how thieving works….
Oh man, since it is banned, there’s no way at all that anybody can get their hands on it. No possible way. /s
Just like guns.
Exactly, ban anything and only those you call “ctiminals” will have them.
I’ve never called anyone a “ctiminals”
Damn touch keyboard LOL
Literally nobody is using flippers to steal cars. Grow the fuck up.
They’re just doing it to get the votes of the people that see headlines like this and think it’s a good thing without reading the article at all.
I doubt this is the real reason they are being banned, it’s just the excuse they came up with.
Another distraction for the big problems not getting solved
They just want to appear to be doing something, even though they aren’t doing anything useful.
this is funny.
Good thing I ordered one a couple days ago
This has made me think that I should order one too. Must be a good tool if it needs to be made illegal.
You can break into thirty year old cars!
Might as well ban brains too, you need that to steal a car.
I thought the US was already working on that?
Next, ban radio waves, because car companies are too damn dense to create a proper product lol
I’m surprised no fobs use a time-based token to prevent replay attacks. Would make it a bit of a bitch to replace the battery, but hey-ho, tradeoffs.
Challenges-reponse protocols are what’s needed
More of an issue with the fob being to connect to a service to get the current time. Technically possible, but would add cost. And if that time is ever out of sync it just won’t work.
I can put an RTC in an Arduino for about $8. It keeps time accurately. If it gets out of sync, maybe a Bluetooth connection to let it do an NTP request through another device.
Cellular connectivity is not required.
RTC’s are not inherently accurate. You have an RTC in your computer, but disconnect it from the internet for a year and it’s extremely unlikely it will be able to pass an OTP check.
Add to that the fact that RTCs run off power, means that the fob would need to actively pull from the battery 24/7. What happens when that battery voltage drops below the required power level? The time goes out of sync. Not to mention you need to change the battery at some point.
Adding Bluetooth would be a terrible idea. You’d then need to make sure the device can receive firmware updates, and we all know the reputation car companies have for updates to things.
Better option would be to receive the date and time from a transmission, be it FM or cell. And no, you wouldn’t have to pay for cell.
The problem comes when you’re in an area that doesn’t have these available, which is still quite possible in the US.
So we loop back to these not really being that viable. They will work most of the time, in most instances. But they’d be shooting themselves in the foot in certain places and with certain users.
Instead of a time based token they should have authentication. To start the car you need biometric or passcode or Bluetooth to connect and the fob.
For the life of me I don’t understand why my phone has better security than my car.
Cause what’s in the title is normal news. That’s why. Dumbasses having power to decide for us that it’s the tools to blame.
They use rolling codes that aren’t susceptible to FlipperZero anyway. This is a dog and pony show.
they use rolling codes
All of them? Source?
It’s been that way for a long time, it’s just kinda the accepted way. The vehicle builders had seen what garage door systems problems came about from hard-switched or dip-switched codes and just went that way from the start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_keyless_system#Security
The newer vehicles have these always-on systems now, the owner doesn’t have to press a specific button. So theives can amplify the fob signal that’s constantly being emitted in the house and get the car to open, then program new keys once they’re in the vehicle and drive away. But that has nothing to do with the Flipper, that’s just a radio repeater.
“Flipper Zero can’t be used to hijack any car, specifically the ones produced after the 1990s, since their security systems have rolling codes,” Flipper Devices COO Alex Kulagin told BleepingComputer.
I guess Canada must have a ton of old cars?
Rolljack attacks are absolutely not trivial to pull off and I am quite skeptical that a flipper can even do it reliably, if at all, since it requires reactively jamming the transmission after the attacker has already decoded it. I don’t believe these devices have enough power to reliably jam the key fob, much less the speed to do it reactively.
It also can’t be used to hijack cars produced before the 1990s, since they mostly don’t have keyless entry in the first place.
Or the “rolling codes” have glaring implementation issues, but it is cheaper to ban the Flipper Zero than recall the cars, so the manufacturers made an executive decision… (⚠️ YouTube)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Canada u okay
The only thing our lawmakers know how to do is ban things to look like they’re doing something when really they have no idea how to actually bring effectual change or fix the problems.
Flipper zero, foreign buyers, handguns…
We’re a country of 3 monopolies in a trenchcoat… run by a party of corrupt idiots, whose replacements look even more incompetent.
No we are not
no
