I mean, no fucking shit.
Good! I hate how modern cars have so few buttons.
Does car with touch screen has no button for warning ?!
Touch screens should not be used for any controls needed to operate a car. You can’t use them without taking your eyes off the road.
Technically the only thing you’re allowed to fiddle with, while driving, is what you can operate from the steering wheel. You’re not supposed to fiddle with radio, AC etc. from the center console while driving even if it’s physical buttons.
I know people don’t drive like this, but you’re only allowed to take your hands off the steering wheel for changing gears if driving a manual, otherwise it’s two hands on there at all times…technically
Didn’t Tesla put the wiper settings on the center console
It’s always been a button on the left stalk at the steering wheel, and for quite a while wiper speed has been adjustable from the left scroll-button on the steering wheel as well.
Technically, you know vehicles went 80 years without any steering controls? Buttons on the wheel still isn’t a requirement.
So if my windows fog over I shouldn’t be able to put the defrost on?
You should have configured your AC before you started driving.
I haven’t had windows fog up during a drive spontaneously since forever ago when AC became standard in even cheap vehicles since they dry the air.
I’m driving. There is not a drop of rain in the sky. 2 hours into my drive it starts raining and my windows fog up. Your answer is I should have turned on the defrost before I left. Interesting. Against reason and human nature. But interesting.
What kind of shit-buckets are you people driving that requires you to turn on defrost just because it starts raining!?
I regularly drive in conditions that go from sunny to rainy, or even sunny to snow/slush…that’s pretty much all our weather is where I live. I never have to start defrost mode while driving, ever. I use defrost to defrost and remove ice from the the car before I start driving, the AC keeps everything fine without me adjusting anything no matter the change of conditions while I’m driving.
I generally get cold. I don’t turn on the A/C unless it’s hot out. So generally what happens is, in winter (because of where I live and the amount of daily precipitation) I either leave the climate controls off or I turn them on when I get cold or when my windshield starts to fog over. Not everyone who drives a car drives a nice brand new car with nice modern brand new features.
I don’t know what kind of car you do drive but I will say your experience is probably not the norm and certainly not enough to justify your original statement. You keep using the term A/C which suggests to me that you have climate controls that either automatically adjust to a specific setting when you start the car, or you turn the A/C on every time you get in the car.
How much condensation builds up depends on a lot of factors. Your own body chemistry can add to it. I have a friend who runs hot and every time he gets in the car he cracks the window because if he doesn’t him sitting there will fog that window up.
AC also keeps the car warm you know…and yes, I tell it to keep my car at 21°C and it does just that. Its a Peugeot 308, medium trim level, that’s more than a decade old with +250k km on it, I’m not driving a nice new car at all. My wife’s VW up is exactly the same, also not new and definitely not a “nice” car.
You’ve never driven in a humid tunnel, or live in a place with changing weather do you?
Oh I do, we have almost 200 days of precipitation yearly, and temperatures fluctuating wildly between days all seasons of the year.
Some tunnels where I live explicitly instruct you to adjust your AC before entering.
I’m allowed to adjust anything within arms reach as long as I keep my eyes on the road. It is my responsibility to familiarize myself with the controls before departing so I can do so.
If you read the article this is specifically about things needed to operate the car. Radios and AC or whatever is fine, but car manufacturers are starting to move things actually needed like turn signals into touch controls, and that is not okay.
Yes touch controls, but the comment I replied to mentioned touch screens (so usually the centre console), which only contains thing you don’t really need to manage while driving.
The comment you replied to also specifically said “controls needed to operate a car.”
Suggesting he is confusing the point of the article.
Wait… what? What???
Yeah, thank Tesla for that one. Because of course it was Tesla.
Seems like a few countries should go over their laws again and prohibit those models from being sold. I don’t know what else would be effective
Tesla is very confident their customers won’t need steering wheel anymore soon, so they went ahead and fuck the steering wheel even though the autopilot can’t work in all circumstances yet.
Autopilot never will, you’re thinking of FSD.
Clarify allowed. Is it actually illegal in the EU to turn on the radio or air conditioning while driving unless the buttons allow you to do it from the steering wheel?
I’m more concerned about fog lights, emergency lights, and Window heating, as law usually requires you to be able to use them if conditions require it.
Is it actually illegal in the EU
What’s allowed differs per country.
It differs from country to country, but where I live you can technically be fined for it. You will also fail your drivers test if you do it.
Where I live changing the AC is a task they can ask you while on the test.
If you do it dangerously such as swerving or taking your eyes off the road for extended periods then you can fail the test.
Is “you’re the passenger, you do it, please,” an acceptable response?
Of course
“I won’t always be here to passenge for you!”
What country is that?
Suspect it depends on where you live, but you’re not wrong.
I think I’ve driven a million kilometres by now, it’s all become so fucking boring and second nature, that you start really being sloppy and distracted. Because you gained so much experience, you start to (unconciously) overestimate your skills.
But the two hands thing really is necessary for if you hit something slippy or need to make an unexpected manoeuvre. The risks of driving are incredibly low, but if shit does hit the fan you’re in for a world of trouble if you’re doing something else.
Hands on 10 and 2 while operating the 2 ton death trap!
Actually your hands are supposed to be at 9 and 3
Phew im good then, my car weighs 1 ton so i can just drive with one hand right?
The math checks out.
This differ by countries. Here I’m required by law to operate the car as needed to operate it safely.
If the cloud vanish, I am allowed to put sunglasses, if I get vapor on my windshield I am allowed to push the button to remove it and so on.
But you have to do it safely and smartly. If you get in an accident that you would have been able to prevent otherwise, you may be found at fault. Even if you didn’t cause it.
The wording is probably similar here, but very few critical systems are not controllable from the steering wheel.
Wipers, volume, AC, cruise control are all controlled from the steering wheel of modern cars, there’s really not anything you need to do from the centre console to drive safely. If it’s not a critical system, you shouldn’t be using it, physical buttons or not.
Is there any place left for your hands? I have never, ever seen a car that is built like that.
Its all placed in the left/right spokes of the steering wheel, your hands shouldn’t grab that part…how the hell do you grab it if that stuff is in the way!?
I’ve never seen a car where you can adjust the AC from the wheel.
Mine can 🤷♂️ thought that was just about normal these days actually.
How much crap is on your steering wheel? What model of car is this, anyway?
Are you counting the stalks behind the wheel as on the steering wheel?
It’s funny that hazard lights are not included in the list and while they’re not part of a touch screen interface for any car as far as I know, I also know some older cars used to mount that button on top of the steering wheel and I kind of wish we could go back to that.
Yes, you can operate them without letting go of the steering wheel or taking your eyes off the road.
Same, I’ve got an Opel Corsa from 2016, so it’s pretty much brand new.
The only things in the wheel are the speed control, wipers, and default lights.
For everything else required for driving, such as fog lights, emergency lights, front and back Window heating, AC, radio, and of course the shift stick, I’ll need to remove a hand from the wheel.
Luckily for me, the Touchscreen in the middle only handles less important things like navigation and external music sources.
Wait, you don’t even get radio volume, next track etc on the wheel?
Oh right, I do actually have track, volume, and “take call” on the wheel. I think I did use them once, but it just never stuck since they felt awkward to use.
“allowed”? where do you live with such laws?
I think the title is a bit misleading. AFAIK, Euro NCAP have no authority to tell car makers anything, but they do indirectly affect how cars are developed because getting high Euro NCAP safety scores are important.
As someone who relies on GPS, a doordasher I kinda think it should be only for multi media and maps. AC and other controls should be nobs. Also steering wheel controls
I totally agree, anything that takes people’s eyes off the road is not a good choice to put into cars. Cars may have more safety features than ever, but let’s face it, drivers are still too easily distracted and too careless. Here in Utah we have so many highway fatalities every day, people driving the wrong way on freeways, and speeding around school buses with their stop signs out. There’s no good fix for “stupid.”
100% agreed! I don’t want to take my eyes off the road while driving. Just let me feel for the right button
the 2010s was a mistake
Not sure how related this is but in my field, designing industrial control systems, each seperate physical button is about $100 added to the cost over a touchscreen. We call touchscreens HMIs just to be special and sound smart. I imagine the numbers are very similar for cars but I don’t have data to back that up.
Touch screen, Vibration feedback/Color change or not, means that you have to look at what your hand is doing and not on the road.
A physical button means you can keep your eyes on the road and find the right button with easy.
So let’s be honest. At this point, touch screens are chosen by car makers because cost and not design. So essentially, safety is less important than cost for the car makers.
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I can as all the buttons are in a row. Same for the AC and heater controls. I pretty much know them by heart so it takes a fraction of a second to glance where to roughly put my finger, and then I can count them out by feel while looking at the road.
That image, while not as bad as a touchscreen, is still a pretty poor design. So many uniform buttons so close still require most people to look. Buttons should be clustered and/or have slighty different shape so you can tell by touch which one you’re about to press…
Compare it to a video game controller. Or a keyboard.All of my face buttons and keys have the same shape and size. I still know where they are, because I’ve used them each hundreds, thousands of times. You learn where they are, and if you don’t immediately touch the right one, you can find it because they never move and you have feedback. A touch screen has zero feedback, and buttons are inconsistently placed, or 4 menus deep.
When you remember where the buttons are they’re fine to navigate. The average keyboard that meant people can type on without looking has less physical feedback (2 small bumps on f and h).
Yeah, once you get used to typing on a keyboard you don’t really need anything else. I got blank caps for my keyboard because I thought it looked neater. Memorising a row of climate options isn’t that bad. If you mix buttons and dials it’s even easier. If the manufacturer thinks of accessibility they’ll also add tactile bumps and such and make it accessible for people who don’t have great vision too.
Lol as someone who touch types but sometimes has to look down for F-key locations and which symbols are attached to which numbers, this would drive me mad.
F keys are in groups. It’s easy to see which is which workout text.
Symbols are in the category of layout learning.
I had a blank keyboard once. This was so long ago that it was probably a manufacturing fluke but I really liked it. Though whatever the caps say didn’t really affect the use in any way.
That’s fair! Looking at my work computer’s keyboard, I’d go nuts if that was the case too. This keyboard has it clustered in groups of four though, so it’s not that challenging. Plus I rarely use more than two or three function keys on my personal computer.
You can find a large volume knob without taking your eyes off the road or press the next track/station button. We are not asking to configure a new Bluetooth connection while driving.
Yes to the Volume Knob. The next button or even worse the play button, i cant.
If the next button is to the right of the volume knob, always, and the play button is below the volume knob, always, and the previous button is to the left of the volume knob, always, then if you can find the volume knob, you can find those other controls. It’s just a biiiiiit of learning your car’s interface.
The play button is number 5, 4 is shuffle and 6 is repeat. the buttons for 1-6 are smooth meaning you can not discern on wich button you are without looking. Shuffle and repeat have 3 modes you switch through if you press them.
Volume Knob opens the Menu onclick.
I can type mostly blind on both a Touchscree(phone) and on a Mechanical Keyboard.
You can type blind on a center console touchscreen, but you can’t memorize the location of 6 buttons that don’t move? I’m not buying it, doc. Besides, the buttons should at least have a ridge where the edges of them are, even if the buttons are smooth. If they’re those shitty, completely smooth capacitive “buttons” that some electronics have anymore, I get not being able to discern them, but that’s still the same problem as the touchscreen - no tactile feedback.
I also wasn’t exactly trying to say exactly how your radio is laid out, I have no idea on your specific model. My point was that the buttons don’t move, they’re always in the same spot, so you just learn where they are.
Shit interface then. Pressing down on my volume knob pauses it, and I’ve got media controls on the steering wheel as well so I can change tracks with my left thumb keeping both hands on the wheel.
maybe the problem is you and not the buttons or knobs.
Are you having these issues only in your car or in other places too?
Even in a car I’ve never driven before I can find controls by feeling across the dashboard and pushing at random until I get what I want. With a touch screen you can’t push at random without taking your eyes off the road because there is nothing to feel.
Channel change and volume control are all physical buttons on my steering wheel. All feel, no look. To me, that’s the best way it can be. The only time that isn’t useful is if I’m out of town and presets don’t work. For those situations, I’m generally streaming ahead of time.
Absolutely. You only need to find it once… And another thing, you can keep your finger on it and press it as many times as needed and know whether or not your press registered because guess what: it always does when you press it down.
Ideally, a well designed physical button wont need any visual confirmation to push or tell if it’s already toggled
Think old school hazard lights, horn or turn signal stalks with clicking noise. You dont need to look at it at all to toggle them, or confirm button is depressed or activated. You can tell by auditory confirmation or haptically
“Back”?
There are people who’d entrust their life to a touchscreen?
They’ve been buying Teslas for years.
You have a smartphone don’t you?
What are you gonna do when your hands have blood all over them? Good luck dialing an emergancy number on your phones touchscreen.
So yes. Pretty much everyone in a developed country do entrust their lives to a touchscreen on a daily basis.
On iOS you can just hold the side button and one of the volume buttons to bring up the SOS menu, if you keep holding the buttons it’ll sound an alarm, do a countdown, and call the emergency services. You don’t actually need to interact with the screen. Obviously this means you’ll need to be able to squeeze your thumb and another finger together, but a phone with buttons would require you to be able to operate that somehow too.
I think you could also try to ask Siri if that’s enabled.
I’ve no idea about Android but I’d assume you can do something similar there.
Lol on Android that same shortcut takes a screenshot hahahaha… I don’t know why that’s so funny to me.
Just checked my Pixel - you’re right.
It does on iOS as well. Though note the difference between holding and pressing. Pressing Power + Volume Up takes a screenshot, holding it (keeping it pressed) brings up the SOS stuff.
holding the power button brings up the emergency menu. You can also use the same menu to lock your phone down so none of the police scanner software works.
Holding the power button brings up Google Assistant on my Pixel 6. It does the same on my iPhone.
What version of android are you running?
It’s running Android 14.
If my hands have blood all over them, I’m not telling anybody. I’m running away before anyone finds me.
The implication is that it’s your own blood, but I like the planning/forethought. I think you’ll be going places. Probably at a run.
I have one, but my main SIM is in my schoolboy\soldier\grandpa phone with nice good buttons. So I don’t.
And I’m sure you always keep it with you as well. Really, good for you. Amazing. So many people. And I happened to just comment to the one person who keeps a dumb-phone on them. What are the odds
Not always, but more time than my Android phone which is somewhere charging often.
I can’t even entrust my video games to a touch screen.
I guarantee this will never happen. Manufacturers picked touch screens and capacitive buttons because they are cheaper to produce. There is no way they’re going back to physical controls.
Well, if your vehicle can’t be sold in an entire economic zone because you aren’t complying with safety regulations, that’s a pretty big incentive to change your design.
I don’t really believe for a moment that a company would care really. They exist to make profits by any means necessary, legal or not. Changing designs requires changes in tooling, processes, and design. That all costs lots of money.
If any design is changed as a result of gov regulations I’ll eat my entire dick.
So, uh, have you heard of a guy named Ralph Nader? He wrote a book called “Unsafe At Any Speed” in the 60s about how auto manufacturers were selling cars that they knew to be dangerous, and how they resisted changing in order to make vehicles safer. It resulted in the US DOT and eventually NTHSA, and a whole bunch of new regulations that auto manufacturers were obligated to comply with.
You also have things like the Consumer Product Safety Commission that can force companies to recall products–at their own expense–to fix products with health and safety defects. The results of recalls can be fines, as well as the product being entirely removed from the market, which can easily end up costing more than has already been spent on tooling and processes.
So, yeah, companies can, and do, change designs as a result of regulations.
Now, how were you planning on eating your entire dick?
Everything you listed happened in the past in different political and economic climates. Those changes would never be able to be implemented in today’s climate.
See, that’s what we call “moving the goalposts”.
And if you think that they EU won’t regulate companies and force them to change their business practices in order to do business in the EU, well, you haven’t been paying attention.
You’re a very unpleasant person to communicate with. There are much better and less aggressive ways to communicate your opinion.
If any design is changed as a result of gov regulations I’ll eat my entire dick.
Is this you? Kinda looks like you.
What, exactly, did you expect when you said that? How did you anticipate people responding to the tone you set in your top level comment?
]I see your view as jaded not wrong. Don’t want to gaslight you and say things are like they were, your view is valid through your expereinces, but Apple was forced to change a charging port to the cost of god knows how much. Also we can only list things in the past, if i try and list a now its already past, semantics I know but language is powerful in teaching your brain what is possible.
I don’t know if you noticed, but iPhones are using USB-C now. That’s not out of the goodness of Apple’s heart.
*Looks at the whole internal design of cars changing in the last 30 years due to the US’s increasingly stringent safety regulations… *
Ya in the past under different political and economic climate. Those changes if suggested today would never pass or be implemented.
Fucking finally. Thank you.
Personally I think that the following car functions should be mandatory physical controls - wipers, indicators, hazards, side/headlights, door locks, defogger / defroster, electronic parking brake. forward/reverse/neutral/park. And they should be controls that have fixed position in the car (i.e. not on the wheel) with positive and negative feedback.
And fuck Tesla or any other manufacturer that wants to cheap out on a couple of bucks by removing them. Removing physical controls has obvious safety implications to drivers who are distracted trying to find icons on a tablet.
