What’s the plan if we run out of oil? I mean seriously, it’s gonna happen eventually. Even if you want to ignore the science on climate change, you can’t ignore basic laws of the universe that oil is a finite resource. If we don’t have a plan for when it runs out, there will be utter chaos.
There’s not going to be a moment when the world suddenly goes from having oil to having no oil. Some oil reserves are relatively cheap and easy to extract. Other, very large reserves are currently so difficult and expensive to extract that doing so isn’t profitable. As the easy oil gradually runs out, the supply drops, the price rises, and sources of oil that were not profitable at the old price become profitable. This maintains the supply of oil and stabilizes the price.
Eventually oil will become so expensive that alternative technologies will be cheaper than it. This will happen with plenty of hard-to-reach oil left. So it’s true that the amount of oil is in principle finite, but that limitation isn’t really relevant.
Eventually oil will become so expensive that alternative technologies will be cheaper than it.
We’re already there. If you remove the subsidies for oil and tariffs for Chinese EVs, driving a EV would be the cheapest solution.
Carbon prices and other incentives and disincentives can help accelerate this, and renewable tech and green(er) manufacturing will play into this too. I suspect (and hope) the decline in oil usage will happen well before we run low on it.
So prices will go up until you and me will get around with rickshaw. Whoever is poorer pulls the other. And while we bump forth; we wont have to worry about continued plastic pollution. Our rickshaw is made of metal and wood.
you can’t ignore basic laws of the universe that oil is a finite resource
TLDR - oil might be a finite resource but gasoline is not oil and it can be renewable. But it’s also a rapidly shrinking market.
The stuff can literally be grown on trees. It’s cheaper to pump it out of the ground, but it’s actually not much cheaper. Fuel from plants, which we farm in bulk for human consumption, can absolutely be used to create gasoline. It’s also net-zero — because the plant takes carbon out of the atmosphere to create the oil and then it’s simply returned to the atmosphere when your burn it.
Most gasoline in the USA contains at least 10% biofuel, and some is up to 85%. The latter requires an engine tuned to run on it, however it’s possible (and is an area of active research) if you’re willing to spend a bit more money to manufacture 100% pure biofuel that can run on unmodified engines. Porsche in particular has started selling a biofuel that is specifically designed to run on classic cars that were manufactured decades ago. They plan to produce something like a million gallons a month of the stuff, and it will work in basically any car. And if you have a classic car (designed for gasoline that contained lead) then it will work better than the fossil fuel you can buy at a gas station
The thing is though, battery powered vehicles are way cheaper than doing any of that. And if you really need a fuel based approach (e.g. batteries are just too heavy for large aircraft), then Hydrogen is a better option than any biofuel.
So - while gasoline can technically be environmentally friendly and is a usable source of energy for the foreseeable future, in reality it’s destined to follow horse drawn carriages and steam engines, a technology some people only use for their own personally enjoyment or to preserve our history.
Burning any carbohydrates in inefficient piston engines is never going to be environmentally friendly, though.
Growing crops to make ethanol is not particulatly green. In fact, in most existing production loops we would be better off environmentally to just burn pure gasoline than produce the ethanol to mix into it, unfortunately. Too much water, too many tractors and trucks, and way too much electricity into ethanol production to be worth what we get out of it. And the bit of carbon the crops sequester doesn’t overcome it. Electric vehicles are by far the greenest option right now.
Not to mention ethanol (what the previous person kept referring to as “gasoline”) is far less efficient, can only be used in high quantities on certain types of engines, and creates excessive smog during warmer months.
Don’t forget that every acre of corn grown for ethanol is one less acre of food grown and when you increase from 10% ethanol to 100%, you’re going to need 10x the amount of land to grow these crops all so we can pay top dollar at the pump to live in smog filled cities and get 10MPG in our vehicles.
Die. We will die. The only crutch that props up our massive jump from 1 billion pre industrialized society to our current 8 billion human beings on this planet, has been cheap and plentiful fossil fuel. Notably, it is the only thing that has allowed us to practice agriculture on a scale that supports our population growth. When it’s gone, there is nothing to replace it, short of a miracle fusion revolution.
The average carbon cost to produce an electric vehicle is about 6 tons on average, not including the battery, about the same as an ICE vehicle. Where does the energy for auto manufacturing come from? Primarily coal and natural gas, with a sliver of insubstantial wind and nuclear power. About 7 barrels of oil go into each and every tire on the road (between expended energy and actual petroleum products in the tire). Charging the battery? Coal, natural gas, and the same trickle of alternative sources mentioned above.
Speaking of those alternative energy sources, what do we use to make them? Building a nuclear power plant is likely the most carbon intensive process ever devised, from the machinery that moves the earth, to the foundry that makes the steel. As much as I’ve always wanted to believe in a cozy eco future, every time I squint a little I can see that it’s all just a coat of green paint over the same old oil field. The people trying to sell you on oil, and the people trying to sell you on alternatives to it, are doing the same thing. Selling you something. That’s all that matters to them.
There is no feasible alternative that changes the outcome. There is no replacement for what has allowed us to create wonders and horrors beyond our ancestors wildest dreams, and sustain a population far beyond anything we could have achieved without fossil fuels. When oil finally becomes unproductive, so will the mechanisms that hold our current civilization together, and we will wind up back in 1810 if we’re lucky, or 400ad if we aren’t.
Call me a doomer and downvote me or whatever. It doesn’t matter.
Yeah I was heavily into peak oil once, too.
Don’t underestimate the power of literally everyone on the planet really really wanting to avoid that situation. Life finds a way.
99.9% of those people have no power to change anything of consequence, and most of the ones who have the power think their money will protect them.
I don’t hold your hopium against you at all, I would love a positive outcome. I’m not holding my breath though.
You’re getting too anxious about what every little thing costs the environment. Yes, you’re right, there’s no silver bullet that makes anything magically sustainable, but there also doesn’t have to be.
Pay more attention to the overall environmental cost, or the change in environmental cost. Of course we’ll never get to zero, but it’s quite possible to get to a sustainable level. The big example is always an EV: sure, it costs the environment a little more to make an EV than an ICE car, but looking at overall costs, you’ve already made that up after only two typical years of driving on most places. And that will only get better as manufacturing gets more efficient and power production gets more green
with a sliver of insubstantial wind and nuclear power
Dude, come on. Looking at US electricity production, yes, natural gas is the biggest. But nuclear production is about the same as coal. And renewables are about the same as coal. And coal is dropping like a rock while most new electricity production is renewables. Nuclear and renewables together are pushing 40%. Despite short sightedness from some of our corporate politicians, it’s way more than a sliver
I fully expected all replies to miss the point. You can’t make more nuclear power without massive amounts of petroleum based energy and products.
But, again, it doesn’t matter, and isn’t worth arguing about. People don’t get it because why would they want to get it? It sucks to get it.
But so what? Yes, there are dependencies and initial costs to the environment. Petroleum based energy and products are integrated throughout our economy, effectively everything is dependent on fossil fuels. Everyone gets it.
Building out things like nuclear power or EVs only effect the operations and only of those specific industries/products. It’s only a start but these are examples of great places to start, where we can make a significant and highly visible difference.
There’s a very long tail of things to work on, for the foreseeable future, but you can’t balk at less than perfect. Do one thing on the list. Then do the next
You’ve been led to believe all of this is a malthusian “die off” that the GOP will make happen one way (ruining the earth to maintain its special privilege) or another (bringing about some kind of holy war). Stop it.
We will move on. As it turns out there are billions if not trillions of dollars in that industry.
removed by mod
Synthetic. It has profit margin and purpose. Nothing we can’t fix without adding more bad things to the air…
So there are politicans who really believe that climate change is a conspiracy? Or they just don’t care for the future?
They’re bought by the oil industry
Have you seen how old they are? Doesn’t matter for them.
No children, no niece?
I don’t think it matters whether or not they really believe it.
Those who don’t, believe in money.
Electric cars aren’t going to fix climate change
Who says EV are going to fix climate change?
Yes, but an easy target.
Electric trains might, but we’re even worse at building them than cars.
Are we? Diesel-ev hybrid is fairly effective and proven. Making a pure ev would just mean taking the diesel out, adding more batteries and installing electrical rail or over head trolley cables to charge them. Trains run on a schedule, so logistic planning should be straight forward.
Are we?
Recently, yes. California’s spent 16 years not building rail. The Gulf Coast states have been tearing their rail out and replacing it with highways for over a decade. The Upper Midwest has just kinda given up on doing anything useful, and just watched its transit infrastructure collapse.
The problem is that highway advocates don’t solve the problem of “who’s going to pay for all this?”. The reason infrastructure in America is in disrepair is that funding for highways is supposed to be gotten from tolls and road taxes. But since everywhere in America is a freeway… there’s no funding for repairs.
Expecting the Government budget to cover maintenance of infrastructure is wishful thinking… unless you’re also willing to agree that the military is allocated too much money.
funding for highways is supposed to be gotten from tolls and road taxes.
Regressive taxation leads to overfunded main roads and underfunded side streets.
Expecting the Government budget to cover maintenance of infrastructure is wishful thinking
Roads are fundamental to the operation of any government. It isn’t simply that states need to maintain roads. It is that states need roads in order to exist.
Roads are fundamental to the operation of any government. It isn’t simply that states need to maintain roads. It is that states need roads in order to exist.
Is it right to say then, that the users of the roads pay for maintenance? Do you expect the government to print more money to pay for maintenance?
Edit:
Regressive taxation leads to overfunded main roads and underfunded side streets.
As opposed to both main roads and side streets being underfunded without tolls and road taxes? Do you expect Government to print money to pay for all this?
My point is is that the tech is there. There’s just an unwillingness.
In the states, certainly. Elsewhere, its wildly popular.
They can be built from acorn and twigs.
It’s gonna help. There’s not an all out 1 solution.
But don’t you see, unless there is one magical silver bullet solution that fixes everything then it’s all worthless and we should go back to dumping CFC’s into the atmosphere.
We should defintely still make EVs, overall they are going to be better than ICE. We just shouldn’t force/subsidize everyone to have to buy and drive an EV like we did with ICE cars.
Ok then that means we have to consider the fact that Car-oriented zoning laws and construction are bad for our future. 15-minute cities and infrastructure to support alternative modes of transit for longer distances are the way forward.
Remaining rich depends on them not believing climate change
There’s an enormous amount of money in renewable energy and battery manufacturing. That’s why Texas leads the nation in wind farm power and Atlanta, Georgia is getting a $4.3B investment at its Hyundai electric vehicle plant.
But there’s also a ton of legacy infrastructure that generates enormous revenue streams. If you’ve just invested billions into our rapidly expanding oil pipeline network
You’re not going to want us to give up on mineral extraction across the American northwest or central plains.
This is a real clash of industries.
Comrades, it’s time to follow the example of Rico Rodriguez! Oil pipelines were made to be blown up! Along with military vehicles!
Alright buddy so you want to burn it down and cause utter chaos just cause you don’t like how things are going?
Well, when you put it that way it actually sounds a lot like the US military/government! You too should be friends!
…or are you only interested in blowing up pipelines in rich countries where the correct oil companies and defense contractors already own everything and are making money hand over fist?
If so would you hurt the soul of America like that? It would be like burning down Fenway or smashing the liberty bell to bits. Those poor executives would have to go home to their families and explain through tears and sobs that the halcyon days of shitting on the future of humanity for the next 15,000 years are over, and that consequences for the ruling class have officially arrived.
shudders what an awful thought!
Unironically, yes.
a short emoji novella inspired by your comment
> 🔥 🔥 🔥 🛢️ 🛢️🔥 🏭 🔥 🏭🏭🔥 🔥 🔥 > 🔥🔥 🔥 🛢️🔥🏭🏭🔥🔥 🔥 🔥 > 🔥🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 > 👣 🤭 ✋ 🔫 👮 👮♀️ 👮 👮 🚔 🚔 🚓 👮 🚔 👮♀️ 🚔 🚔 🚓 🚓 🚔 🚔 📯 🚨 📯🚒 🤷♂️🤦♂️ 🚒 > 👣 > 👣 > 👣 > 👣 > 👣 > 👷♀️👷♀️ > 👷 > 👷♀️👷 > 👷♀️ > 👬 👷 > . . > . . > 👋😛 🎉 🎉🎈 > 🏠 🏡 🏠 > 🎉 🎉 🎉 🎉 > 🥳🥳🍻🥳🥳🥳🥳 > 🎉🍻 🥳 🍻🥳🥳 🥂🎈🎈 > 🎈 🎈 🎈 > > 🍕 🍕 🍽️ 🍕 🍕 > 🎵 🎵 🎶 🎵 > 🎵 🎶 🎸 🥁 🎤 🎹 🪕 🎷 🎶 🎵 > : > : > 🪩 > > 💃 🕺 🕺 💃 👯🍻 🕺 > 🕺🕺💃🍻 👯 💃 > 🥂🥂 > 🍻 😆 🤗 🫂 > 🍻 > 🍻 🥂 😀 > 🥂 > > ⌚ 😴 😩 😫 💤 > ✨ 🌙 ✨ ✨ > ✨ ✨ > ⏳ 💤 > ⏳ 💤 > ⏳ 💤 > 🐦 🐦 🌄 🌞 ⏰ 🐦 🕊️ ⏰ 🦜 ⏰ ⏰ ⏰ ⏰🐦 🐦 > 🪥 🦷 > ☕ 📰 > 😄 > 🏡 🚪 ✊ 🔊 🔊 🔊 🔊 > . 🚪 ✊ 🔊 🔊 🔊 🔊 > .. 🚪 ✊ 🔊 🔊 🔊 🔊 > . .. 🚪 . ..🥱 ❓ 🕵️🕵️♀️📁❓ ❓ 👮 👨💼 👮♀️ 👨💼 👨💼 👮♀️ 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 > > . 🤔 💭 🙉 🙈 🙊 . > > 🚪 ❔ ❓❓🥺 😮🤦♂️ 😵💫 🤷♀️ 🤷♂️ ❓❓ ❔ ❔ 🕵️🕵️♀️ 📁😡 👮 👮 👮 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 > 🚪 👋😛 🕵️🕵️♀️ 👨💼 👮♀️👞 👞 👞 🚔 ................. -> > 🤐 🚪 > 😜 🚪
Oil losing value, someone remind them that selling their bag holding oil stocks is a good play.
If anything, oil is increasing in value. It certainly isn’t losing it.
Less demand=less value. More electric vehicles=less oil
EVs are being built to save the car industry not the planet. I’ll probably get an electric vehicle once the kinks get worked out but I know how the materials are acquired and what happens when the batteries can’t hold a charge. It’s a baby step but definitely shouldn’t be stopped from evolving.
lol, looks like Elon Fuck’s brown nosing has failed miserably.
Why wouldn’t they? They are, after all, the craven whores who thirst for corporate donor cock.
Are we in a “free market” or we not? The answer is “depends on what lobbyists want.”
Free for me and not for thee.
Might as well be the offical preamble of the Constitution (or at least the more conventional “rules for thee, not for me”).
Are we in a “free market” or we not?
Not.
Only when it helps to keep the poors in their place.
Not even only. The recognized goal of the modern marketplace is to achieve monopoly. Billionaires write entire textbooks on the subject.
Lol without all the subsidies gas would be $12/gallon. And burning fossil fuels (40% is automotive) kills more than 250,000 Americans per year. Whats the cost of a human life brah?
Exactly I am not getting all this subsidy unfairness nonsense that stops Chinese firms from selling cars here. The only difference I’m seeing is that we’re subsidizing cars on the back end through oil subsidies, and they are subsidizing cars on the front end with production subsidies.
Whats the cost of a human life brah?
That depends on if grandma is being evaluated by an Obama Death Panel (life is precious and invaluable) or by the stock market in 2020 (she has, what, a couple years left anyway, let her die).
In the US there is only one metric: Dow Jones death panel. The insanity of our culture is that Obama Death Panels were an invention of the Dow Jones death panel board to rally the lemming brained right against the concept of public healthcare (the horror!). Oh yeah, obligatory fuck Joe Lieberman.
I think they’re more commenting on how the supposedly “free market” champions constantly interfere with the market when it suits their agenda
Exactly. Those people tend to be extreme hypocrites.
Yeah but in this case (EVs) it’s way better for public health and the “interference” is still a fraction of the scales tilted in fossil fuels favor.
Yes, that’s the point. These politicians interfere and meddle and cry “free market” when it is convenient for them.
Would have been far easier to just type “there is no free market”
Free market involves pluralism of systems and distribution of power as important preconditions. Lobbyism requires monoculture of systems and power being sufficiently centralized to be controllable.
Also, the free market is a tool, not a utopia. It optimizes for whatever the people setting the limits of it make it optimize for.
Hence things I said. Otherwise the wheel is free for taking for the worst people.
To play devil’s advocate for a moment, is it really a free market if we are incentivizing one technology over another?
That argument can be made about the tax incentives.
However, regulations about emissions are intrinsically something we want, and we shouldn’t hold back on that just because gas cars can’t get to the level of emissions we need.
When the oil industry doesn’t have to pay to clean up their externalities we already don’t have a free market. You break it you pay. Fixing the externalities by incentivizing better technology is at minimum a correction to the market.
Free market goes to the highest bidder.
Look up thos congresspersons’ donor history
Bet my bottom dollar they’re getting donations from groups that tie back to the auto industry
Get the fucking money out of politics
The cybertruck can go, sure, but let the rest be
You probably forgot about the Hummer.
wait they made an electric hummer?
edit: son of a gun
Unfortunately.
You could easily argue the Hummer is symbolic of the problem with legacy manufacturer’s attempts at EVs, or at least the most extreme
Rather than create an EV anyone can afford, rather than design a vehicle around the needs of an EV, rather than care about any sort of efficiency …. Take a monster of excess and just keep adding thousands of pounds of batteries until it works. And you end up with more of a monster of excess: excessive price, excessive consumption of batteries/materials, excessive weight. You have a vehicle designed for people who values excess, made it even more excessive and expensive, and try to sell it to customers in the name of efficiency and reduced pollution. Of course it won’t work.
Yeah i did heh.
They can go whether the driver wants them to or not once the pedal is stuck down. (Unless they’ve been mildly dampened outside of car wash mode.)
Then by all means let them drive themselves right off a high cliff
While I like the idea, unfortuanlty, that is bad for the environment. We are better off driving them into recycling plants to put the battieires and other materials towards something useful.
True. I was just thinking of the least expensive option
Fuck them
I like it much better when Republicans stick to pushing for things that are just useless rather than destructive.
“Kentucky Attorney General Russell Coleman accused President Biden of being “willing to sacrifice the American auto industry and its workers in service of its radical green agenda.”
I mean we could try and transition workers from a more negative industry type to a positive one…but that seems like a lot of work and less profitable, so never mind.
I don’t know what this guy is pissed about. China is going to make their EVs in Mexico, like responsible American companies!
They’ve already made contracts and announcements for France as well.
The funny part is that the US could just subsidize their EVs at the same rate and keep China out, but they’d rather sacrifice their whole auto industry to keep subsidizing oil.
That’s weird, because my Ford PHEV was assembled in Kentucky.
I’m really tired of republicans calling anything democrats do “radical” or “extreme” when they’re just pushing for the most mild stuff. I would die for some actual radical left ideas.
It’s almost like one of the main functions a functioning federal government is to create and regulate new markets. But why bother politicians with work when they can just try to bully people into complacency.
Perhaps they’d like to rollback all the times we’ve bailed out the auto industry. We don’t want the government to be choosing winners and losers, after all.
Please do. “too big to fail” is bullshit. All the equipment getting liquidated could have went to companies that could have started up for pennies. I can only imaging how many companies could have started and where they’d be today if they were allowed to do their thing.
What the actual fuck is wrong with Republican politicians? I mean, I already know what’s wrong with Republican voters - brainwashing by years of Fox “News” - but the politicians? Are they all literal sociopaths?
It’s been so long that the inmates are running the asylum in the GOP these days.
No, they’re just doing what they’re being paid to do by special interest groups aka big business. It’s not a bug and it’s not a feature; it’s the point. Optimal profits this quarter. Every quarter is a new quasi generation of executives who want a good quarter before moving on after x quarters.
You gotta know at this point the system has feedback. Its possible most of them were raised on the same shit their constituents are huffing.
ever since the tea party and especially trump the inmates are running the asylum
Nah before that was Bush and Cheney getting us into decades long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because some Saudis attacked us.
When you brainwashed for generations, you end with brainwashed in politics. This is just the beginning.
Nothing. They’re behaving quite rationally.
You just have to understand that their motivation is not “successful governing” or “making the world better” but rather, “getting more money.”
When you view their actions through the lens of self-enrichment, they’re behaving quite normally.
The philosophy behind conservativism is to stay still. Conserve the status. Do not progress.
That’s a popular misconception. The philosophy behind conservatism is to perpetuate hierarchy. The ideology was developed by literal monarchists, and when the “divine right” excuse became untenable they moved on to others like racism and capitalism, but the goal remained the same. It only seems like they want to maintain the status quo because the historical status quo was hierarchical, but rest assured: if society were magically egalitarian instead, conservatives would vigorously try to make sweeping, wholesale changes to create a hierarchy from scratch.
Interesting insight. Thanks for the correction. Perhaps the choice of lexeme “conservatism” would best be swapped for a neologism like “hierarchism” or something to better describe the principles of the school of thought. Otherwise, I made the connection like OC that conservatism = no change, whether good or bad.
Otherwise, I made the connection like OC that conservatism = no change, whether good or bad.
That’s exactly what they want you to think. It’s one of the more prominent ways in which they launder their ideology to make it seem appealing to more people than just sociopaths. (Or at least, used to, until they went full mask-off under Trump.)
Yes. The term has been kind of redefined in practise from massive misuse. Just like many others.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
developed by literal monarchists
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Correct.
They are in charge and are going to do everything to keep it that way.
As you said.
But you’re describing a standard Dem. Repubs are actively trying to drag us backwards. They are regressives.
I’m already depressed as it is. Why do you have to do me in like that?
This is so infuriating, especially when it’s so easy to show that voting against progressive initiatives also hurts their own constituents…
This is so infuriating, especially when it’s so easy to show that voting against progressive initiatives also hurts their own constituents…
“I don’t care how much it hurts me, as long as the people I hate are also getting hurt!”
It’s just simple corruption (or lobby, as it’s called in the US), they are saying what the highest bidder asks them to say
omg politicians being bad I’m absolutely gobsmacked
Are they all literal sociopaths?
Yes. Just pick one and pay attention to what they do and say for a little while.
rustbelting makes voters transition from democrat to republican. you could argue that they actually benefit from declining industry, so of course they’re going for it
It’s not even less profitable.
and its worker
UAW got bipartisan support, right?
The American auto industry could also produce EVs, if it so chose. Nobody has to lose their jobs.
As an American auto worker, I like our move to EVs and the jobs at the massive new factories we built. But I guess wanting blue collar workers learning new skills and technologies makes me a gay communist.
Why gay?
Because it’s part of the communist agenda.
All communists are gay trans fairy men who love satan and hate guns. Didn’t you get the pamphlet?
I’ve been dodging memos and pamphlets for some time now.
Because nonsensical insults are their bread and butter, and just being a communist isn’t good enough anymore.
just being a communist isn’t good enough anymore.
Especially since they love Russia now (because it’s fascist), but the distinction between the communist USSR and the fascist Russian Federation confuses a lot of their base.
Two groups conservatives hate.
Tesla is an American company. The ‘traditional’ American auto companies like GM and Ford don’t even build or source a lot of their parts in the US and Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep has been owned by a European company for quite a while now. This guy is a chump and I wish someone would have called him out on his BS.
This guy is a chump and I wish someone would have called him out on his BS.
It’s no wonder. He’s a Republican, so that automatically makes him a assbag. Also, Toyota has a Camry manufacturing plant in Georgetown, Ford assembles Escapes in Louisville, and of course GM makes Corvettes in Bowling Green, so it’s no surprise that he’d be regressive towards automotive tech (even though Ford and SK are spending like $4 billion to build two battery manufactuing plants outside Louisville).
They already do: Ford has the Mach-E & F-150 Lightning plus a bunch of PHEVs, GM has (had) the Bolt, Stellantis makes a few PHEVs among which one of the the very few cars on the market that can carry 7 passengers on battery power (the Chrysler Pacifica) altough that one is made in Canada, not the US.
Oh, and all of Tesla.
The American auto industry could also produce EVs, if it so chose.
I find that very hard to believe.
A lot of manufacturers are. They just aren’t making as many EVs as they are ICE.
Maybe someone should create EV incentives, with a requirement to be manufactured in country - both incentive to buy and incentive to manufacturers to invest in guaranteed growth area, and for their own future. Oops, that’s what we already have
There’s also nothing stopping the big three from making EVs.
So I keep hearing people say:
“Just wait until the big players get into the game, then I’ll buy a good car”.
Imo the big players don’t deserve to survive this transition. They had their opportunity to spearhead it but instead literally chose to be on the wrong side of history.
Nothing stopping big players but greed to get into the EV game.
Yeah but it’s cheaper to just kill the competition than expand into a whole new sector.
And making more than the minimum the government requires them to make for quota. Demand is even there now, so there’s no excuse other than the bottom line, plus a bit of cooperation with the oil companies.
In a statement, Kentucky Attorney General Russell Coleman accused President Biden of being “willing to sacrifice the American auto industry and its workers in service of its radical green agenda.”
If you look up the 10 most “Made in America” cars, the top 4 slots by a huge margin are Tesla Model 3,Y,S,X , which are all EVs, and they are at near 100% (or 100% for some models). There isn’t another American car brand on the list. So when Coleman is talking about sacrificing American auto workers, who’s he talking about? A car that is 40% American because all the parts are made in China or Mexico and there’s some final assembly done in the USA?
P.S. Musk is an idiot, though I’m not sure that needs to be said anymore as its so obvious.
the top 4 slots by a huge margin are Tesla Model 3,Y,S,X
Is that true? I saw recently that 95% of Tesla’s cars are the Model Y. I assume a huge chunk of the remaining 5% is the Model 3, leaving very few Model S and X cars on the road. I’d be very surprised to hear that either one of them is in the top 4 best selling American made cars.
Edit: Just looked up this article of best selling cars in 2024, which includes non-American made cars.
Removing those, it looks like it’s:
-
Ford F-Series: 152,943 units sold
-
Chevrolet Silverado: 127,563 units sold
-
Tesla Model Y: 109,000 units sold
-
Ram Pickup: 89,417 units sold
-
GMC Sierra: 68,597 units sold
-
Ford Explorer: 58,465 units sold
-
Jeep Grand Cherokee: 54,455 units sold
-
Chevrolet Equinox: 54,185 units sold
-
Tesla Model 3: 42,000 units sold (Looks like my 95% number was way off)
-
Ford Transit: 39,890 units sold
I’d be very surprised to hear that either one of them is in the top 4 best selling American made cars.
I said nothing about top sales. I said “most made in America”. As in: of all cars sold in the USA, what are the top 10 which contain the most American manufactured parts and labor".
how was that figured out? most evs have a less complex manufacturing process and rely on a shitload of electronic components that aren’t manufactured domestically. i’d be interested to see the methodology!
i’d be interested to see the methodology!
You’re welcome to read this 158 page PDF from the CBO https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/97th-congress-1981-1982/reports/1982_08_16_domestic.pdf
The main legislation comes from the Automobile Information Disclosure Act.
i meant the claim that teslas are the top made in america cars. i looked and found cars.com’s list of the most made in america cars and their dubious Made in America Index and that’s about it.
i also want to just throw an electronics manufacturing industry scoff at the CBOs methodology. i used to work for an electronics manufacturer that did mostly pcb assembly. a bunch of the work was government contracts or prestige stuff that had to say “made in USA” on it as opposed to the more clear symbol of a hollowed out manufacturing sector, “assembled in USA”. every day truckloads of parts from china would get soldered to PCBs from iirc taiwan and that was enough to earn made versus assembled.
Oh gotcha, I misunderstood. Yes they are very much made in America. Seeing people complain about them and acting patriotic because they drive a Ford cracks me up.
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You misspelled Russians.
I take that back, you spelled Russians correctly.
Cmon go so far right you hit the left and start advocating for public transit and improved mixed use infrastructure to “own the libs”
Congratulations, Elon. This is who you hitched your ugly Cybertruck wagon to.
I’d be game to buy one once he can figure out how to build the damn things at sufficient scale
Why? Have you read about them? They can’t go offroad properly, they rust, they have endless glitches…
Well I suspect once they are in scaled production that will largely be solved.
Why do you suspect that when other Tesla models are only marginally less shitty?
There are so many other EV options now and pretty much all of them are of higher quality. Some of them are cheaper.
Yes, we’re finally getting some choices. Next time you need to purchase a personal vehicle, please consider which EV is right for you.
There are reasons Teslas are still most popular, and you may benefit by figuring out why, rather than spout propaganda
They are still the most popular because they have the most hype, not because they are the best choice.
What pros and cons have you personally experienced?
Not going to buy an EV. No charging stations nearby. Can’t install a charging station where I live. I probably have 10 years of driving left so I will stick with an ICE.
Seems like a good plan that’s right for your situation, but for all of our future, I hope that’s rare ten years from now.
For anyone in their own house, where it’s pretty straightforward to install a charger …. It’s damn nice to never again have to go to a local refueling station. Recharging your car can be just like your phone: plug it in overnight and it’s just always full.
Yeah, it can be a bit less convenient on a road trip, but 95+% time, plugging into your home charger is more convenient
Nobody else makes an truck that isn’t obnoxiously large
Plenty of companies make them. They just aren’t allowed to sell them in the U.S. most of the time. And that should be changed.
Going by the recent firings, I’d wager he’s in on it.
