Serious question : My desktop is incompatible with Win11, I run Win10, and I use it for web browsing, Excel, and a little Word processing. Nothing else. Can’t i just continue on as is? Not a gamer, not a heavy user…
You’re not getting anymore security patches, but as long as you keep your browser up to date and generally be careful about what you download and run (as you should already be doing) you’ll likely be just fine.
I’d estimate sometime around 2029 or so the major browsers as well as security software will start dropping support for Windows 10 and at that point you may need to start thinking about moving to something else if you haven’t already done so.
I can probably see a new computer by then… (my car hits 20 next year…) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
you’ll most likely be fine, there still exists people who use Windows 7 for that workflow. You have to be more aware of vulnerabilities that could be found on your operating system though; and over time more and more software might drop support for your OS (realistically, this will be more noticable when Windows 12-13 gets released) so you might not be able to use latest Office version’s features.
Thank you. I’m retired, and unlikely to upgrade Office. Ver 2016 still does exactly what I need to do.
I’ll keep my router secured, my firewall updated as long as it will, and anti virus /malware up to date.
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Look into Rufus, it will help you create a bootable USB with windows 11 and you can use it to do a upgrade or clean install from your windows 10 installation (clean install preferred IMO), it will even help bypass the hardware requirements and you can even remove the email account and use a local account. Make sure to use or write down your windows 10 activation/license for a clean install.
That being said you could potentially still run the old wondows OS, but as time goes on new exploits could be found that can compromise the OS. If its behind a firewall such as your router its safer, but there is still the possibility of it being infected way off into the future.
Here is a video of windows XP running on a PC connected directly to the internet with no firewall. Its infected almost instantaneously. (Dont try this at home).
The problem with that is that vulnerability will be found and used. Since it’s connected to the internet it will be exposed to attackers and could be infected with botnet viruses/tools and used to attack other computer/services.
Use Mint and it will be less frustrating.
How well does Excel run under Linux?
I switched to LibreOffice Calc. I program my sheets and don’t need all the bells and whistles of Excel.
If you’re using excel anyway, you’re probably not super worried about using non open source software. In which case, I find Google sheets to perfect. I use it for almost everything, because it’s just easier to use Google’s office suite for my school than it would be to use libre office, since everything backs up immediately across devices. I’ve never had any complaints about compatibility or format, and I’m literally being graded on my shit. I’d be preferable to use only open source software, from like a philosophical standpoint, but I also need things to function well in a world that expects automatic saving across devices and flawless compatibility to the arbitrary standard of Microsoft office
I’m using sheets provided by my GOOG work account already. Was just asking in case someone absolutely needs to have the thick client of Excel.
I think even web-Excel works well enough. I’ve used it recently through a sub provided by my university on my Mint laptop via Firefox.
Stop intimidating folks who just a computer that does work for them with “learn” linux as if linux is a programming language. Many linux distros are super user friendly and work exactly like windows UI.
Beside, why do you think iPhones, as dumb and as bloated and as restricted and limited and overpriced they are, still are the most selling phones worldwide year after year? It’s because my 80 yr old mom knows how to use it.
Most people and professionals in the world just want a machine to do their work and are not intrested in learning progamming or command lines to do it. Nurses, doctors and surgeons, non-computer engineers, artists, business managers, …etc, are too busy and occupied to even change the defaut settings or uninstall anything that comes with windows not because they love it but becuse not intrested and don’t care. Add to those groups most, actually all, girls I’ve ever met in my life. They have different hobbies and learning OSes is not of them. It’s like a girl saying “Soon Sephora will discontinue their HilightBrushExfoilioter and everyone who wants to wash their face needs to learn Mac’s DeepBeauty routines”. while dudes are like we know soaps but wtf is an exfoilating routine. Literally, they don’t know what linux is, and it’s not going to sell to tell them to learn.
So tl;dr: I’m saying the thing that sells would be Pop OS or Mint, or anything that requires the least or none learning curve.
While this is true, learning some kind of programming - shell scripting or BASIC in olden days - is a very useful endeavor.
It’s very convenient for everyone to be able to automate their work.
And it’s not particularly different from cooking something once in a while.
Not required at all to use Linux, of course.
Though for operating systems … People here for whatever reason downvote things they fear, but even OpenBSD is simple enough. It does require using shell, but as compared to any other desktop OS I touched that’s just really negligible and is usually a copy-paste from FAQ.
No, most people don’t need to learn shell scripting to browse the internet, play games, or send emails. Especially if they have jobs that don’t involve a lot of computer work. And it’s unfair to expect them to learn that just so they can use their computer as they were before.
Neither do I, but I do need shell scripting to automate tasks. I’m not against there being some visual user-friendly environment for doing that. That would be the right way to go, not saying people don’t need shell scripting. Something like Scratch.
While this is true, learning some kind of programming - shell scripting or BASIC in olden days - is a very useful endeavor.
And learning sewing is useful, but I dont need it to wear clothes.
It’s not comparable to sewing. That would be learning C++ and Qt.
It’s comparable to making a sandwich.
No, making a sandwich is more effort equivalent to sending an email, or maybe adding items to a shopping site cart and buying them. Both are fairly intuitive and don’t involve memorizing weird commands like “ls” and “cd” (“cd? But my computer doesn’t even have a CD drive!”).
OK, making borsch is a more fitting analogy. With it being edible and not yielding muffled “heresy” cries from people from Eastern Europe.
Also you should be more creative with your sandwiches probably.
How is learning C++ and QT not programming?
Golly.
C++ and QT is programming comparable to hard things in life.
Shell scripting is programming comparable to usual things in life.
Capisce?
You mean keep spyware off your pc
whole ass countries like pakistan and vietnam are fucked basically
Pirate a copy of windows 11 N. It’s the eu version that doesn’t have any of this dogshit in it.
Is there a “government” version or similar, where security is paramount? Like, how does MS sell windows 11 to the navy or whatever…?
Probably, but the activation of it would be stringent.
The issue with any Windows OS going forward, no matter what version, is that Microsoft detests local desktop computing now, and so much of it is being ejected to the cloud. That includes all the various methods of managing it for enterprise customers. They’re slowly working towards the Apple model where the OS basically can’t live in isolation. If it touches the internet, it will phone home and kill itself if told to.
Are we talking about Windows or me at this point?
For locked-down devices, they’ll be running LTSC or LTSB editions (Long-Term Support Channel/Branch), or Windows Embedded, which are simplified and heavily customisable versions of Windows. For general-purpose devices, they’ll be using Pro or Enterprise versions of Windows which, crucially, support Group Policy. Using GP it is very, very easy for a single admin to configure an arbitrarily large number of Windows machines to work exactly how they want them to work, including configuration options that aren’t otherwise exposed to the end user in any way.
Edit: just to add: the lack of an equivalent of Group Policy is what is preventing Linux becoming widespread in businesses. If you think you know of a service for Linux that works like Group Policy, then you don’t know Group Policy.
I got out just before 11 released and had only been on 10 for a year or so. Military moves very slowly at rolling out the latest windows. I’d be extremely surprised if anyone who isn’t a very high rank running 11.
Apparently, the navy is still using Windows XP on (some?) ships: https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/2/5/navy-looks-to-industry-to-digitize-ships
Then there’s this old classic when a navy “smart” ship was adrift for 2 hours after a Windows NT crash: https://www.wired.com/1998/07/sunk-by-windows-nt/
I just want a OS, that just install and work for all the things I want to do, without installing other stuff, because I need it to play some game or whatever.
Sounds like nobara or bazzite to me
Or basically any distro and steam tbh
For anyone who still needs Windows, I recommend you try the Windows 10 LTSC IoT variant.
It has support until 2032 and has all the bloatware ripped out. It’s extremely good.
They even have a Windows 11 version. That’s also really good. But I’m guessing if you’ve avoided upgrading to Windows 11, you’d prefer to stay on 10 anyway.
Is there an easy way to buy this as an individual?
Lmao
Windows doesn’t sell enterprise shit to normal people
This is why you gotta totally avoid sites like this one https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
Microsoft is watching for you, don’t worry
They typically don’t sell licenses to individuals and even if you were able to buy one for a reseller, it would be like $500.
There are other ways of activating it, but they are a gray area, and I’d only be willing to describe them to you through DM
This isn’t reddit, you don’t need to worry about being brigaded or cancelled for talking about piracy or J-Walking
More so just trying to give the mods less to clean up if they have to. Plus I think links to it are a faux pas
But will those methods even survive future updates?
The greater point is, the pattern is very clear with Microsoft and windows, and it will continue to get worse, and your options will continue to shrink. It would be better to just put any effort towards learning to use Linux and escaping the ecosystem rather than continually trying to find the ever-decreasing bits of freedom you can extract from Windows.
The activation mechanism I use on my personal PC has been active for six years without issue, so I can only assume so. And yeah, migrating to Linux works for some people, sure. But there’s no harm in letting new people know there’s options.
Essentially, no. If you don’t care about the cost, maybe with a MSDN subscription.
Literally everyone that “threatens” to “switch to linux”:
here we go again…
there are people out there still (willingly) using windows xp, windows 10 is gonna live on for the time being
I’m a government contractor, so I’m stuck on Windows and Microsoft products for work. It really sucks, but the government ain’t switching to Linux anytime soon… if ever. At least Windows 11 Enterprise (or Government, whatever) should have a lot of this shit stripped out. I hope.
Usually at that scale you create images with all this crap removed. When deployment time comes, the machines are reimaged from local/state IT.
I feel bad for the average home user that, at this point views more ads than content, and all this telemetry collection to boot.
I use 11 and don’t see any ads and have telemetry turned off. I’m not sure where this is coming from, but I keep hearing it, and it doesn’t mesh with my experience.
I’ve personally thought about going back to Linux, and I still might next time I upgrade my MOBO, but the thought of all the effort it will take to get all of my hardware working again is exhausting. That was the greatest struggle before I even approached software issues. I’ve heard it is better these days, but I’m not an expert or a programmer, so I’m essentially relying that someone else has had my use case, solved it, and made it publicly available which is not always the case.
If it’s any consolation, and maybe just luck, but I almost have better luck with hardware not with windows.
That could very well be the case. I was on a beater laptop previously that was no longer functioning with windows and I needed something for school. I remember I that I wasn’t able to get the wifi card to work with Linux so I ended up getting an external card. It likely is different now and I have a proper desktop, but the experience was rough and I’m not eager to repeat it, lol.
Oh I remember those days. Having to find an extracted windows driver and using ndiswrapper to patch it in.
That, and I’m just proficient enough with computers to fuck shit up.
So far tools like Win10Privacy have been exemplary in allowing me to rip all manner of spyware, adware, and annoyances out of Windows.
I’m sure that Copilot will meet the same fate with one external debloating utility of another. Even if I need to replace the Explorer-based shell with a third-party one.
I only use the computer for word processing, internet, and playing roguelikes.
Fine. I guess I’ll learn Linux 😒
As someone who understands windows fairly well, but until recently couldn’t use the command line to save my life, I started dual booting Ubuntu and it’s pretty easy to figure out once you understand what you’re looking for. Only things I’m still trying to get running are alternatives for the stream deck software, iCUE, and voicemeeter, but I havem’t really invested much time into them yet.
I don’t like change! 😣
Sometimes people get caught up trying to find exact matches for software, when instead it’s a combination of tools that gets the job done on another OS. The annoying thing is learning new toolsets – but it’s only annoying until you know them.
Yeah I don’t expect to get all the functionality in one piece of software, so I’ll have to cobble it together. Of course, icue depends on the .net framework so it’s not getting ported, and the other 2 just don’t have an official native linux app. Jack mixer is my current target for voicemeeter, but I have to start researching the others at some point.
Pipewire has some mixing functionality through tools like pwvucontrol, and graph connections through Helvum.
I’ll have to look into that. Thanks for the info!
Weirdly enough, .Net works relatively well on Linux (at least the core components). Parts of the framework are even various degrees of open sourced.
I do a lot of .NET development at work (back end web APIs). It’s all done in Linux via WSL2. All my code runs in Linux containers on Azure.
ICUE has a full replacement, I think it’s called CKB next, I can double check that once I’m home if I remember
I use it to manage my Corsair 12-button mouse and it actually has MORE features and is MORE usable than ICUE ever was
I had heard of CKB next, but I thought it was a general purpose RGB software. Good to know!
It is, I think?
It also does button mapping and supports Corsair shit out of the box, so it’s what I use it for. I planned to use it for the RGB portion as well but it didn’t support other devices and OPEN RGB is right there so I use that for lighting and CKB for mouse buttons and DPI config, smooth as butter experience compared to ICUE never fucking saving anything to memory no matter HOW HARD I TRY WHY ICUE WHY
I feel that pain in my soul! Sometimes my settings get applied, sometimes not, sometimes integrations work, sometimes not, sometimes the app updates properly, sometimes it breaks itself so windows doesn’t know it’s installed and won’t run it, but the installer thinks it’s installed, so it won’t repair it so I have to delete fucking anything I can find from icue, reinstall it, uninstall with revo, and then reinstall fresh and import all my saved profiles, which only sometimes work. Why the fuck is iCUE so goddamn shitty?!
For those use cases, there’s very little actual learning to be done.
There’s Windows 10 LTSC, which gets security updates til 2027. And IoT Enterprise LTSC, which gets security updates until 2032.
“But should you even use those versions?!? They are not meant to be installed on a desktop PC/laptop” - idk, it’s either this or Win11.
For more info on how to install, check https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
For what its worth: I’ve been running enterprise since 2015 (when it was called LTSB) then switched to LTSC IoT around 2021. Its fantastic and doesn’t have all the Candy Crush and other bullshit. I highly recommend.
That plus open shell is what windows 10 should have been.
My biggest concern for using the LTSB IoT is how long third-party application support will remain if Microsoft goes through with dropping support next year. I guess a lot of stuff still works under Windows 7 so maybe it will be fine?
I don’t expect but also won’t be surprised if it ends up being a Windows XP situation where they extend support for Windows 10 several times.
I don’t expect but also won’t be surprised if it ends up being a Windows XP situation where they extend support for Windows 10 several times.
They absolutely will, and they’re planning on this, they’re just not going to announce the true EOL date. The deadline will scare people into upgrading, then they’ll start extending it.
Guys there’s countless tools out there for removing bloat and telemetry and tweaking the UI. it takes like fifteen minutes to make windows 11 completely acceptable for daily usage
The problem is there are many things you can’t disable, remove, or alter, and that will continue to get worse over time.
Just because some bullshit is listed in Winaero Tweaker or whatever as an option to disable doesn’t mean all the bullshit in the system is listed there.
but don’t you lose gaming performance if you’re running newer hardware (I guess this might not matter to you)
What do you mean by that? You don’t lose gaming performance when you use win10 over win11. Why would you?
Man I could swear there was something. I thought it was DirectX12 that was exclusive to 11 but googling tells me im wrong. Maybe I’ve been on win 11 for no reason this whole time haha
As a Linux user this and posts like this piss me off. Linux is NOT and WILL NEVER be a replacement for any other operating system (except maybe Minix). By implying Linux is the same or similar enough to Windows you bring in Windows users who except everything to be the same. Fundamentally thats not a good thing for anyone, Windows users get confused and maintainers are encouraged not to deviate from Windows even in ways that make the OS better (for example KDE not going all in on tiling to appease Windows users). In my option Linux shouldn’t be recommended to anyone. Linux software maintainers should focus on the core Linux userbase and people who want their OS to look and function exactly like Windows/MacOS should just use Windows or MacOS.
This is…kind of stupid? There’s such a plethora of options in the Linux space for desktop environments, workflow customizations, configurability, etc. nothing is locked down by taking a Windows-style approach to a DE. Instead it follows a tried philosophy that’s only really been hampered by Microsoft’s decision to funnel users into an frustrating hole that removes the choice to disable or modify features you don’t like. KDE in particular has always been a Windows-style DE, and it’s currently one of the best options for modern features and extensive customizability. Hyprland is literally designed for linux enthusiasts. Gnome is the Mac analog, Xfce is your light-weight but functional, etc.
You’re upset because people are looking for more options? That’s bizarre. I came from Windows, but I guarantee my setup is different than someone else who comes from Windows because that’s the flexibility that’s offered. No one coming from Windows wants it to be exactly like Windows, they just want to be able to use their computer in a way that allows them to work, to play games, to watch media, etc. It’s a computer. It’s your computer. It should be able to do what you want.
Thats absolutely untrue, I see people complain all the time “Linux doesn’t look exactly like Windows therefore its not polished” or “Linux doesnt support every Windows app therefore its not ready”. When Linux users keep saying “Linux is a Windows replacement” or even implying it by suggesting it as an alternative to Windows 11 it creates expectations that can never be met. In addition im frustrated not because Windows users demand more options but because they demand less options. They demand one distribution to be “the Linux OS”, one singular desktop, and one way of doing things. Fundamentally when Windows users come in expecting Windows they have a Windows mindset.
Ah, my bad. I think I misunderstood your point and took you to be gatekeeping rather than just attempting to defend against misinformation or poor comparisons.
You’re right, it’s not a Windows replacement. It shouldn’t be expected that it’s analogous to Windows. My previous statement was coming from the expectation that people moving from Windows to Linux as their primary OS of choice was that they were explicitly looking for the advantages offered by it, rather than simply expecting to get away from Microsoft while needing to adjust to nothing new.
Ideally new Linux users would accept that things are different and we are starting to see it. Tiling window managers are gaining popularity especially with the announcement of the first true tiling (or rather dynamic) desktop environment (Cosmic). I think it would also be helpful if Linux users explained why things are different, sometimes its a lack of support (HDR, VRR, VR, etc) but sometimes like with anticheat there are good reasons for the absence. In addition the problem is that a significant amount of people want a “non-microsoft windows”. The solution is simple, people should view Linux in a way like MacOS (some windows apps don’t run but it has plenty of exclusive apps that don’t run on Windows).
To the Kwin maintainer, I can see why tiling isn’t a bigger deal. It’s not exactly about copying Windows; it’s more about not confusing most users. We already see tiling features, I’m sure they will figure out (1) more powerful features or (2) a way for other people to build off what they have. Let them cook.
I do agree that Linux will never be a Windows clone. There’s no purpose in copying decades worth of bad decisions. Windows isn’t great, it’s just always compatible with hardware.
How exactly is tiling confusing? If people were willing to accept that Linux functions differently then tiling can became just another thing to learn. Its objectivity more efficient then stacking so why not?
If the tiling is automatic and the users dont know how to change the size of the window manually (if that window manager allows that).
What if on the first boot the tiling could be explained by a welcome app (kinda like what KDE has), it would explain all of the shortcuts and then you could bring up all of the shortcuts with a simple shortcut. I personally use Sway and I think i3 based WMs are better, I believe on pretty much all i3 based WMs its as simple as super + r for resizing mode and esc to leave.
I have a lot of respect for Sway and wlroots developers. They contributed heavily to the desktop Linux ecosystem. However, if you need to explain that much at first boot; you may overload some users. I’m sure tiling in Plasma will get better as they splify configuration and figure out better defaults.
I just did my install of Linux Mint. I have a number of complaints that are really the fault of Microsoft, other things tripping me up that are just about me learning differences; BUT I still find there’s some things Linux could take as lessons.
One of them is keyboard shortcuts. I learned Windows shortcuts because they followed intuitive logic, like what role the “Tab” key has and what the Shift key is doing to adjust its action. Linux apps often make up their own logic around this, which even if it made sense internally, doesn’t work with apps like Firefox which are still using Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs, possibly to keep Windows parity. Then, since Linux is supposed to be built to customize, if I try changing the terminal to switch tabs using Ctrl+Tab…it just doesn’t let you; pretends you didn’t press anything. Stock boot of Linux Mint 22.
You’re right that they shouldn’t be changing just for aping the dominating competitor; that’s how we unfortunately got Chromium supremacy. I still think there’s gentle UX considerations they could handle more often though. Basically the type of thing decided in board rooms that engineers would lose interest in.
Only thing better than perfect is standard as they say, if everything uses the same shortcuts it doesn’t matter if they’re crap
I’ve kept most of the same logic from windows keybinds on my hyprland config because then when I have to use a windows machine it’s not completely backwards
Well said. Then there is the entire ecosystem of programs and apps for which there is no real ability to install on Linux (and for which tools like Wine will either be buggy or even nonfunctional), and whose absence will just piss users off.
As much as I love Linux and BSD, it is really only for people who are either mentally geared to shift off of Windows or whose minimal needs won’t notice the difference; it is not a drop-in replacement for Windows.
For example, my octogenarian father has exactly such minimal needs except for one program: Quicken. Any bugs or issues running that as an installed desktop program on Linux would have him enraged and throwing the PC out the window. So he is still on Windows, and I am keeping my eyes open on how to properly neuter/excise Copilot once it drops.
