Food delivery only made sense as an operating cost of the business, so third party delivery would have only made sense as something that the businesses subsidized. It also only makes sense if it is structured around the busy times of day as well.
I worked in a few businesses in the late 90s that offered delivery. In every case the delivery drivers were basically kitchen staff who went on deliveries OR the business itself was primarily delivery based in the first place and they still had the drivers do some other work around the place during downtime between meals. Both approaches spread the cost of the employees over more than the literal time delivering, because otherwise the cost per hour would be ridiculous. They also delivered food that held up to delivery times, so the food waiting 10-15 minutes before being delivered wasn’t an issue.
There was a reason that pizza places and Chinese restaurants frequently had delivery even in smaller towns while things like McDonald’s did not. The food held up to delivery and was frequently of a volume that made the restaurant subsidizing the cost of delivery feasible.
How much did the CEO of Uber, Dara Khosrowshahi, earn last year?
What a sad country, where people have to accept being paid so little.
I’ve been arguing for decades that EU needs to tax imports from USA, because USA is using social dumping to compete unfairly.
The US minimum wage is not a living wage, and employers can even go below that if they can claim tips are part of the wage. And they don’t even provide healthcare for all. This is causing extreme poverty unbecoming of a developed country, and is social dumping.USA has created a system where employers are not paying the actual cost of labor. By tilting the power balance to vastly favor employers, and fail to regulate against abuse.
Apparently this is in Canada, which surprises me a little, I thought they were better regulated. This gig economy shit should clearly be illegal, and workers should be paid a reasonable living wage.
Did you even read the article? This is not about or in the USA.
Paywall
I admit I thought it was USA, I’m surprised Canada is just as bad.
Good job! You can open websites! We’re so proud.
It shows paywall.
Oh, in that case how did you manage to come to such strong conclusions if you didn’t read the article?
Because I know it happens in USA.
So you didn’t bother to read the article but felt the need to make a top level comment about it?
What do you mean? Canada is American territory.
/j
Chattel slavery ended but we are ruled by people who think of themselves as modern slavers though.
Have you heard the claim “Slavery wasn’t that bad.”?
That has actually been pushed by the extreme right for a couple of years now!
Like WTF? Are they arguing we should have slavery again?Well at least slaves were provided housing!
I will never use uber so long as I shall live.
“Minimum wage and the idea that hard work should lead to economic security, can be — and are being — destroyed by these A.I. systems.”
Lol. AI has so very little to do with this. That’s only mentioned because it’s the latest bogeyman.
Not A.I, just a terrible system that incentivises (and even demands for public companies) abusive behaviour.
Yep, blaming it on A.I. is just an easy way for corporates to shift the blame to something they can’t control. A.I. is just a tool, the people using it and HOW they use it are responsible for the outcome.
Yeah, AI is making the same practices worse, but tryijg to destroy the concept of the minimum wage goes back to at least the early 80s if not before.
Had a colleague that did it as a side gig and no matter how many times I told him to do it, he always refused to do the calculation to figure out how much he was making after expenses.
Living in denial is the only reason we aren’t already eating the rich.
That and fear of imprisonment
Well this is a more or less solved problem in BC:
https://www.moneysense.ca/earn/careers/gig-worker-rights-in-canada/
The gig worker min wage is 20% more than min wage to account for the “non-engaged time”.
I was going to do it as a side hustle, but then I found out that I would have to change the type of car insurance I have, and my rate would go up. If I didn’t and had an accident while delivering, my insurance company would 100% deny all claims - assuming they found out I guess. I wasn’t willing to risk it , and the higher premium cost made it unprofitable.
bike time
A lot of couriers in my area are also using ebikes now. At least in winter, it seems like even more than regular bikes.
Must be nice to live somewhere you can bike without high probability of death.
Let me be 100% clear. People who commute on bikes in my area are dead. Or they gave up because of a near death experience. I have lived here 18 years, I have seen one regular bike commuter. He caused major traffic backups, which was his safest option, at least they knew he was there. He lasted three weeks. I hope he’s not dead. You can not commute on a bike everywhere.
Even in places with good infrastructure and generally non-murderous drivers it still gets very sketchy.
The majority of drivers just havent ridden a bike since they were 3, and just don’t understand that you’re part of the traffic, as though you can magically just slip around between all the cars.
American drivers believe that they can kill people with cars and they do get away it a lot. Wouldn’t want to ruin their lives
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Honestly, I’m surprised insurance companies don’t actively pursue this. Like doing a side gig such as this would very easily increase the possibility of claims because you’re on the road, so financially speaking it would make sense for them to try to partner through those delivery apps or Research into whether someone is doing it professionally on the side.
Then again I guess it is more financially Justified for them to just milk your insurance money up until the point that you get into an accident and then deny your claim there for being a gig worker
externalizing costs. vehicle maintenance, insurance, wages… it’s all a ruse to get anyone else to pay their overheads without realizing it.
That’s the foundation of the entire economic model imposed on the plebs.
If you are not exteacting, you are not winning.
Buddy, I cant use that service in any good concience…
I was just commenting on a thread about public transportation (there’s none where live) and someone commented that they’re moving to micro transportation by just buying a $3 Uber every time they need to go somewhere. Even if uber is only taking $1 of that, $2 isn’t paying someone to drive you somewhere. Uber drivers should make at least $30/hr.
Where can you take a $3 Uber? If I took an Uber to my next door neighbor’s house it would be more than $3.
That’s what I was saying too. Maybe somewhere with much lower wages and cost of living.
I haven’t done the math but if you don’t drive that much, did it beat their yearly costs (maintenance/insurance/gas)? Honestly that scheme is wild but makes total sense for a customer because not having to deal with car maintenance and insurance seems like a good tradeoff. I wonder when the dominos are all gonna tumble for these driving companies
I don’t know where the person who commented that lives, but you can’t get an Uber five blocks for under $10 around here. If I was that close and walkable I’d just walk. I do know uber is losing drivers locally though because they don’t pay enough, certainly not enough for people to maintain their cars. It’s predatory employment at this point, and it is becoming normalized.
I took one recently and found out Lyft was taking the ride at a loss. (They must average out the rides). I needed to drop my vehicle somewhere for maintenance, called a Lyft and it was something like 5.42 before I added a tip. I asked the driver when it had gotten so much cheaper and he said he had been doing well and checked and was getting paid $9 before tip for the ride. Told him I was giving him $10 for going out of his way as a tip, and the app actually wouldn’t allow me to tip that much, I couldn’t get above 9.58 or something. Anyways, slower areas they must be taking a loss to try to get more market in the area.
Also, Lyft has always been better for me when needed, Uber won’t allow me to schedule a ride, so you have to wait till you want to leave, and in a slow area that just means… There might not be anyone. If I schedule it with Lyft for a set time I’ve never had an issue with that.
The awful part is, even without tipping the driver the food is drastically more expensive. The restaurant takes an extra cut, The delivery service takes an extra cut. This person’s delivering your food practically for free and the meal is already sit down restaurant price.
My wife and I ran the numbers and, in our area, Uber Eats was pulling in about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of the meal between charges to the restaurant and the customer. We were discussing opening a non-profit delivery service in our area. Turns out it’s pretty hard to do.
Oh yeah, they’re going to want to see some serious reason why you shouldn’t be paying tax.
It’s a lot easier to start an SCorp or an LLC in the US. Starting the corporation’s not horribly expensive either
Since you’re not selling the product, you probably just need to pay the tax on The money they pay you to do the pickup. You need to start it more like a postmates where they ask you to go pick up the order they placed at some shop. But then I suspect you would have timing issues if you have a limited staff. You couldn’t just place the order and then wait a unlimited amount of time for it to show up.
Then there’s that daunting problem of when the store screws up the order. Because they always screw up the order.
But you’re still going to have to deal with labor laws, You’re going to need bonding, a CPA, advertising, presumably a web presence and software maybe across platform cell phone app. These are all things that get easier as the company gets bigger but are rather daunting it small scale.
I guess it’s kind of a tough business to break into. Owning my own car, I could place an order, drive to McDonald’s pick up the food and come back for pennies. Obviously that 30 minutes is my time but it’s time I would spend not making money else wise. Because I’m already spending a couple hundred a month on a car, it’s not worth very much for me to pay someone to bring me food. But at a livable wage, plus someone else’s maintenance, that’s probably $7 to $10, assuming there’s a limited number of orders they can pick up at once in a small area.
Just one note, restaurant prices go up because uber eats charges a percentage based fee for each menu item. So, restaurants need to up the prices on the app just to make the same amount of money. Just some good ol’ under-the-table fuckery courtesy of Silicon Valley bastards.
In any case, when it cost me $20 more to get the meal through delivery, and f**** over a delivery person I’ve got a lot more incentive to drive 10 minutes to pick up food.
it’s okay you can say fuck.
Voice dictation censors, getting to the setting is a pain, I use dictation for work a lot so it’s better for you to be imaginative them me to screw up and get in trouble.
Yeah, it would suck if you’re ever referring to the fuck Tory manager
We don’t have to use that service. Who’s with me?
I’ve never used the third party delivery apps because it was clear their business model was going to screw over the drivers from the beginning.
And be very expensive for the customer at the same time. Food is expensive enough already without adding more fees and overhead.
Well, I’m definitely not using any delivery service - we live ~25 mins drive from the nearest town, so it’s just not an option.
I’ve lived most of my life in the countryside and just think that getting someone else to go get my food is a weird concept anyway… I’d go as far as saying that I’m no-one special, so why ask someone else to get my food - just get it myself (lazy, etc.)
Plus, I like driving, so I’m happy to get out of the house for a while (and drive like a delivery driver to get the food home whilst it’s still hot)
I use it, I just tip way more than anyone else in my area tips. Mostly out of guilt, partially out of solidarity for the working person. I like to think my order at bumps that avg hourly rate up at bit.
This just makes your house a target for robbery because the criminals who deliver on the side will think you have lots of money
As a former driver for both UE and GH, I disagree. The rich fucks who tip nothing could be a target. My best tips came from the blue collar and lower-middle-class houses. Solidarity. (Also why I won’t use the services myself; I can’t tip enough to justify wasting an hour of their time and missed opportunities.)
As a driver, I started losing money once pandemic pay became a thing. It seemed like nearly all the furloughed teachers and daycare workers got in on the gig. I was lucky if I got one run per hour, and my area had no guaranteed minimum pay, even on scheduled blocks.
I haven’t found a greener pasture yet, but at least I didn’t totally ruin my car with the excess miles. Silver linings, I guess.
I feel like it’s a double-edged sword.
For as long as there are people willing to tip more, the company can get away spending less and shifting it onto customers.
As a result, workers get highly unpredictable and generaly low income and customers feel guilty for leaving low tips. Everybody but the company loses.
This is why I only tip if the staff performed some actual service, not just calling my name for me to pick up my own order from the counter. Tipping in those situations (all situations actually) will allow the employer to pay shit wages longer and avoid a union to get them the benefits they deserve.
For drivers, the results are unpredictable and too often unfair. Data obtained by the Star shows Uber Eats’ platform can offer two food couriers different wages for the exact same trip.
Labour advocates charge that the app collects data on driver behaviour and can use it to decide who it can pay at a lower rate, allowing the company to pocket the difference and boost its revenue. This concept is widely referred to as algorithmic wage discrimination.
Wild
Wage discrimination sounds like a fancy way of saying wage theft.
Yep, it’s just when they only do wage theft on the most disadvantaged employees that are the least likely to sue them or quit as a result.
It shouldn’t be a massive surprise. The whole platform exists as a way to circumvent minimum wage laws for drivers while taking a massive slice of restaurant profits.
No hygiene inspections either, half the places listed aren’t even restaurants or takeaways, it’s just in somebody’s house…
Time to change your name from Patel to Smith
Par for the course based on Uber’s history. I stopped using them in lieu of a local/community app…which is honestly absolute garbage, but it is essentially completely pass-through and free for my local area restaurants to use.
I maintain that it would be relatively simple to create an open source version of an app/protocol like this that serves people’s needs for this exact use case, and if it were designed for any community to use, it could be essentially free as you say and high quality, and be a single point of service for everyone.
If this were done right it could put all these thin platforms out of business and allow delivery drivers to establish fair terms for themselves.
This would be a really good fit for federation I think.
As a software engineer I’m down to help out on this, free of charge.
I’m a developer too, and I appreciate the offer very much, but I’m not really in a situation where I could work on something like this. It’s just an idea though, anyone could run with it.
So how many lemmy users are going to stop using food delivery to avoid being complicit? Especially asking if you refused to vote for Kamala Harris because of Gaza - or you can rant about how it’s “not the same thing” lol.
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Doesn’t really seem to help when it still shows their username…
This is why I’m never in favour of unrestricted, uncensored speech in public forums…lol
Not sure how many but when I suggest boycotting these parasites a while back, I was down voted and told to get fucked lol
Fuck kamala and loser DNC komissars who shill owner class agenda against pedons
That’s the spirit! Let’s review in 4 years.
Life will be shitter just the same way it gets shitter with each new presidential term. The trend is set, you have to be naive to think that regime white kamala would reverse the trend.
Two party system is to maintain power of the owner class.
I never used them. Smug_face.png.
I don’t use them either.
Together we will rule over this wretched land.
Until a sudden but inevitable betrayal.
It will be me.
So how many lemmy users are going to stop using food delivery to avoid being complicit?
I generally avoid food delivery apps because of the extra cost either way…but if you have a problem with the wages, just tip more. Tip cash if you have it – there’s no way for the app to get its hands on that money!
but if you have a problem with the wages, just tip more.
enabler | noun
en·abler i-ˈnā-b(ə-)lər
: one that enables another to achieve an end especially : one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (such as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior
Someone using the service is already an en·abler (i-ˈnā-b(ə-)lər).
Tipping well enables the drivers to pay their bills, at least.
I either pick up the food myself or eat there and highly tip the server, because that’s how the system works right now - but long term it would be better if they got more wages and didn’t need to rely on generosity.
Definitely. I wish we’d ban tipping in North America.
And also put the taxes into the sticker/menu prices. No more of this price jumping at the register.
I see the justification in adding the tax on afterwards because putting it on stickers and menus imposes more work on the business whenever the sales tax changes. If you’ve ever done a store inventory you’ll get it. Also if you live in a place with sales tax, which in America means almost everywhere, you get used to mentally approximating it, or at least knowing it’s going to be added on - and a sales tax amount is mandated, it isn’t something people agonize over deciding like a tip.
putting it on stickers and menus imposes more work on the business whenever the sales tax changes.
Boohoo. Other countries have figured it out. If we can’t get fast and efficient trains like other countries have, we can at least stick the tax into the sticker price.
Keeping tax off the sticker makes the price seem artificially lower, this making people spend more money.
I don’t buy through food delivery apps, I only order delivery if the store itself provides the service.
And I didn’t vote for Kamala Harris, not because of Gaza, but because she sucks in a lot of areas. I also didn’t vote for Trump because he also sucks in a lot of ways. My state is heavily partisan, so me voting for one or the other feels like more of a wasted vote than voting third party, because everyone knows which party will win my state before the primaries even start, so I might as well juice the third party numbers a bit.
Last time I tried ordering food I spent an hour trying to find a restaurant that still had delivery drivers on staff.
Fucking capitalism is killing everything.
I just stick to two or three, and drive to the rest. I don’t order delivery enough to need more than that.
Are you for fucking real? Capitalism is killing your ability to lay on your ass and order food brought to you? Have you no sense of irony, history or context?
I live in California where we attempted to pass a law that would force these companies to hire their drivers as employees. Every gig worker i know bought the corpo propaganda and voted against it. That was when I realized exactly how much of an education and media literacy problem we have in this country.
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That argument is just a regurgitation of the propaganda that these people bought into. You can’t possibly know what would have happened because the law was voted down. I think that if those companies severely restricted the number of drivers they allowed, quality of service would decline and they would end up losing market share. In the end, there probably are somewhat fewer drivers, but those drivers are guaranteed to be making at least minimum wage plus mileage and access to health insurance.
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My buddy who was a driver at the time would try to convince the Uber drivers in the lot at the airport and they all believed the propaganda from TV and radio that was clearly paid for by Lyft and Uber. The majority of the American public are just not intelligent.
That law still pisses me off. I heard that it got a court check because of a clause in the amendment required a 7/8ths majorty vote in both the Senate and Assembly, but I don’t recall if the judge ruled to keep it or abolish it.
California can be such a great state, but sometimes we vote for the dumbest shit because companies lobbied for ads that make no sense but to the dumbest voter. The most recent set of props come to mind.
Like every time we vote to keep dialysis shitty?
I never understand why we keep voting for it each election, but more:
https://calmatters.org/politics/elections/2024/11/california-propositions-election-results/
- Voted no on rent control because of successful propaganda by landlords
- Voted no raising the minimum wage because of successful propaganda by companies
- Voted no on affordable housing because “muh taxes”
- Voted no on banning prison labor, because “Hey if they went to jail, they should burn in a forest fire, paying them is icky!!”
I know the courts upheld it in 2023. I haven’t heard of anything changing since then.
The education and media literacy problem has been brewing for decades. Our culture is so entertainment addicted, lots of people can’t even take a shit without watching something on their phones. I had high hopes in a progressive victory and a slow turnaround, but Trump winning after everything that’s happened tells me we’ve gone over the event horizon into Idiocracy and collapse. Not looking forward to it.
I didn’t vote for Harris because she’s one of them. I also don’t use food delivery. Enjoying your feeling of superiority from pointing out the hypocrisy of random group intersections?
Reading comprehension dude - I specifically addressed the Harris question to people who are in both categories.
This is… a weird gotcha. “You claim to be aginast murder, but sometimes you like to order Taco Bell! Checkmate, progressives!”
I personally voted for Harris despite being in California, but I can’t afford doordash for going out. It’s often:
- Meal Price (often but not always extra charges because fuck you, they can)
- Service fees
- Driver fees
- Tip to get someone to deliver in my rural area
Meanwhile I can often walk to there and put in my order in the same amount of time. It’s often even cheaper to take the bus someplace, then take the bus back. Doordash makes more sense in an urban area, but I don’t live in one. And when I am in one, I’m often with a friend who knows how to drive.
Many of the food couriers I worked alongside were young international students struggling to earn an income while they make their way through school. Others were refugees or undocumented workers, navigating precarious lives.
I honestly wonder if pretty much all of the surge in illegal immigration over the last 5 or 6 years comes down to Uber Eats.
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