The obvious problem is that the United States missed the Revolutions of 1848 because they were trying to figure out how to be the Red Wizards of Thay before it existed.
Instead of being smug Europeans could try to help foster solidarity amongst the workers of the world and help Americans fight for their labor rights
OP being smug also increases the reach of the post by a lot compared to a dry post about solidarity.
No.
Establish more labor unions! This is the only solution.
Ok, how do I, as an individual, do that?
I would recommend you start by joining the Industrial Workers of the World and paying monthly dues to empower the union to fight the fight necessary. https://www.iww.org/membership/
There is a difference in interests at work between employees and employers. Even if someone doesn’t own the business, if they have real hiring and firing power over other workers then they count as an employer to us.
I have two direct reports at work, so it seems like they consider me an employer, and I’m not eligible to join.
yep, capitalist scum
I’m in a union here in Germany. Why am I supposed to pay up for the folks in the US who still act against their interests and refuse to unionize or vote for worker’s rights?
Motivation to even want to have some solidarity instead of smugness is the first step honey.
By posting memes on Lemmy to piss off Americans, so they start to take formative action after they research the memes context and realise they don’t have free health care, cheap/free post secondary education, and mandatory holidays like the EU bros.
Tldr: Post them memes buddy!
Edit: guys… this is c/memes. Y’all are taking this way too literally lmao. Lighten up a bit ffs.
Free healthcare does not exist. Someone will pay the bill. The bill may not be ridiculously inflated but someone pays.
No shit, literally no one actually thinks this when they say “free healthcare” what they mean is that it’s free for the individual. As in, you don’t have to deplete your life savings because you had an injury.
It is not free for the individual. People pay 800 Euro for healthcare per month regardless if they need it or not. Everyone contributes to paying the bills except the young and very poor.
If you live in the UK and earn £100k per annum (which puts you in the highest tax bracket), then you are paying £460 per month for all social securities including healthcare. If you earn less, you pay less. Where did you get this €800 from? Your dumb ass?
Your manners are pretty decent for earning so much money. Gratulations. Not everyone is living in the uk…
That’s because those two groups CANT PAY THE TAX CAUSE THEY DONT HAVE ANY MONEY.
Do you also hate public roads? After all your taxes go to fixing those even if you don’t own a car!
We can play this dumb shit game all day.
Read what i said. You assume shit because of voices in your head. I stated what is real without any judgment. You assume my opinion based pn a picture your brain painted based on nothing. I did not voice an opinion anywhere.
Please show me a single European under public healthcare paying 800 euro per month…
deleted by creator
Lol, the bill is literally a piece of paper backed by other pieces of paper that the richest people on the planet demand have value because they choose who has the paper they hand out.
What you mean to say is, the labor must be done, and it is. The part you refuse to accept is the laborers must have a sustainable life and they don’t.
Ok, enjoy socialist healthcare like cuba then…
There are many other countries with socialised healthcare.
Not sure why you’d single out that particular country. Not to be rude, but it sounds like your implied preference may be more ideological than evidence based.
Who does socialised healthcare hurt, anyway?
I am a big fan of socialized healthcare and happily pay my dues ( i could leave the system if I wanted). Socialized healthcare unites the people against corporations which is good to balance out interests. Healthcare in socialists systems like cuba on the other hand lack corporate interests and generate no money needed for innovation.
laborers being fairly compensated is socialism
Dude you can’t survive as a boot licking parasite for very long. Eventually the boot steps.
What pathetic ideology do you believe in that it excludes a fair wage for workers?
Ok, red khemer. Threatening people is a good way to win arguments. By the way… i did not argue anywhere. You made up a fake quotation. What is wrong with you?
That’s not much of an argument when you consider that places like the US still spend just as much money with Healthcare, without providing free services to the population.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but you are being pedantic: aka the worst kind of right.
It’s free in the same sense that a free school lunch is free: the exchange of money happened long before/after the actual goods or services get to the person who needs it
They know. Most people that use that argument just want to make their position known, ie: socialism bad.
Why are they using wrong language and disregarding peoples contributions then?
Okay what would you call it?
No, we also talk about it because it stops working when people don’t treat it right. In Germany the system will very likely change because it is not affordable anymore. Politicians are already discussing things like people should have to pay the first few thousands of healthcare costs by themselves.
Yeah I know, perhaps you might say thats still better than in America. But to treat it like healthcare is free and grows on trees is just false. But because a lot of people treated it that way it’s now going downhill.
Talking about that doesn’t make you anti-socialism. It’s really discerning how people on social media only accepts discussion that follows the overall cheers. You aren’t against something just because you want to discuss it.
I am not pedantic. I am precise. People need to understand that other people pay for their treatment and it does not just happen.
No one thinks that though so I’m not sure who you’re trying to preach to.
How? All I want is to replace the term free healthcare with socialized healthcare. All the other arguments here only exist because people assume opinions that where never voiced.
People know and understand that - that’s why countries with high tax rates aren’t seeing people throw tea in the water on a regular basis. They understand that they have representation and a share in the value that comes having those relatively high tax rates.
deleted by creator
I guess what Europeans mean by free healthcare is healthcare that doesn’t structurally fuck over the poor, and makes what’s left of the middle class poor as soon as they have a bit of bad luck regarding their health.
Most people that consider european healthcare free do not pay for healthcare because they are still studying. Healthcare is cheaper because the insurance companies are involved in paying the bills and negotiating prices where in the us there is no negotiation.
Healthcare is essentially a progressive tax in Germany. You pay based on your income - and none if you have none, but you get care based on your needs.
I pay around 1300€/month (split about equal between me and my employer, and I’m pretty well paid), even though I cost maybe 10€/month, and the rest is a form of solidarity. That also means, I will literally never be in a situation where I can’t pay for healthcare, even if I’m unemployed.
You technically can fall out off the system, bit it rarely happens. Not sure about the details though.
Yeah anyone who looks at lifetime bills in America Vs Europe and thinks the American system is better because it’s “not actually free in Europe” is completely delusional imo.
It’s free at the point of delivery. The whole of society pays for the whole of societies health care. As you mention it can mean young people paying more than they currently cost (although let’s not ignore the young people who do have serious issues and likely wouldn’t have a big employer funded healthcare plan), but when you’re older you’re paying way less than you cost, and don’t have all the anxiety about whether you can afford a preventative treatment, or if your medical bills will bankrupt you and make you homeless at age 70. That’s well worth the up front minor expenditure that comes out of your taxes and isn’t noticiable to me.
American salaries are higher, but they tend to spend (what looks to me at least) as a similar amount on taxes and healthcare as people in Europe do, but have much less to show for it.
We are very aware of the shittiness of our labor laws
Who cares about Americans?
Thanks for your comment. I’m currently out of office on annual summer vacation until 30th sep 2023.
savage 🤣
That fight is on your own.
It took me way too long to realize chasing a high pay, high stress career wasn’t worth it. I envied my friends and family for being able to enjoy weekends, evenings, and holidays when I couldn’t. I missed my best friends bachelor party, I missed Christmas and New Years parties. If i didnt miss them entirely i would show up late or leave early from every occasion. I realized I was going to reach the end of life never having lived it.
Yup, I gave up my 70 hour work weeks. My 50 hour weeks grew my salary and position, then my 60 hour weeks put me in charge of massive projects, which drove me to 70 hours during a couple ERP implementations. I took a paycut overall, but now I work 40 hours.
I’m currently working a job in IT at a lower than median salary, but I also can fuck around (within boundaries of reason), adapt my work schedule to myself and work from home 100% of the time. I wouldn’t have it any other way. My team and managers are some of the chillest people I’ve met
This is exactly what I’m looking for right now. The hurdle is that it’s getting harder to find non-contract jobs in IT anymore. So every hour I take off from work is an hour coming out of my pocket. Either way I’ve come to accept that my sanity and free time are things worth paying for.
IT and WFH here also. On an average week I do maybe a handfull of hours of actual work and I earn about the same as a doctor. I’d still prefer to do no work at all and I get major anxiety every time I have to go back to work after summer vacation.
Big relatable
By law in Germany you cannot work more than 40 hours per week. There are some exceptions but usually it’s downright illegal for employers to request it.
Well, 60h is the limit. 6 days at 10h each max. The 40h figure is the long term limit.
I demand we lower it to 20 and let AI do the rest of the work.
People in many jobs already work 20 hours in reality. We should just make it official.
lower unemployment
Doesn’t matter, I can only have two, maybe three jobs at once so any more than that is irrelevant to me
higher growth
I get the same $8/hr whether the GDP goes up, stays the same or goes down. You can’t leave workers out of the distribution of wealth and then pretend that more wealth is good for workers
I don’t understand how the hell people even work jobs that don’t make minimum of $30/hour at least in California and even parts of the East Coast. Like your rent is $1600-$2200. At 0.8*3200 for $ 20/hour with taxes your take home is $2560 for a 40 hour work week. So what are you just not eating that month?
How about healthcare transportation medical 401K literally anything? Pruning of benefits didn’t happen because of corporate greed it happened because people just accepted what they were offered. In the Midwest where apartments might be closer to $700-$900 a month some of this works but on the coasts rent is usually twice that. And a car to get most places is $400 a month with insurance supposing you have the credit.
I work in IT and programming, and Id love to do physical labor and talk to real humans rather than salamanders in silicon valley. But the jobs I see don’t even break $30 an hour. Yet it costed me $27 for ham and cheese and altoids, not even including bread where I live in the bay area. It is fucking expensive.
I feel like America is doing so many things ass backwards greed first. But it’s not like I have the experience of living overseas or in Canada or otherwise so I don’t have much to compare it to, so it’s safer by default to live with the devil you know than the one you don’t.
27$ for ham? How much are we talking about? 500g or 1kg? (about 1 or 2 pounds)? Deli or conveniece?
Half a pound. Deli.
Christ 250g of deli hame for $27? So probably about 22-25€?
That’s probably a ½-¼ more expensive than good ham from a local italian shop in Germany…Good god.
What people do is pile into apartments. Yeah, to live alone may cost let’s say $2000/month rent. But you can pile 4+ people into a four bedroom apartment that costs $5000, split it four (or more) ways, and they’re paying $1250/month. Some of them have significant others, so then you wind up with two people in one room each paying $625/month. (Just random numbers, but that’s the general idea of it.)
The people I know who do it hate it, but it’s what they can afford while staying in the area they like (and/or were born in, have a community in, etc.).
Good lord that’s no way to live.
Don’t worry about it man. You are missing the point. Look at how many billionaires we have now! All that money is going to trickle down any time now!
But your billionaires get richer more quickly than ours! Isn’t that something to be proud of?
hey watch it buddy, one day I’m gonna be one of those billionaires
This has gekoloniseerd kokosnoot energy
one day I’m gonna be one of those billionaires
I sense people actually believe they’re an easy powerball away from just that.
Everyone is sure they’re the exception
I love how in every topic about WFH there’s some dudebro going on about the economy suffering due to supposed lessened productivity and I’m like… Why should I care?
Oh no! We got so wrapped up thinking about general human well-being, we forgot about productivity!
But for real, if the economy isn’t for people then wtf is it for?
Oh, it is for people. Just not for people like us.
It’s also bullshit. Worker productivity is overall slightly up with WFH. The economy suffered from the pandemic and everything that entails.
You should care because that profit should be going to the workers who create the value. It doesn’t go to the workers, so you should continue not caring about productivity. Damn the man.
Workers aren’t the only factor the creates value. Capital and land also add value. Why would people use them otherwise?
That being said, the workers are jointly responsible for their actions in production while capital is merely an instrument of their will and cannot be responsible for anything. Workers are denied the positive and negative results of their actions, so we should not care
I love the abstract “productivity”.
Like yo, cancer is incredibly productive.
Demolishing subsistence farms and replacing them with cash crop slave plantations is mad profitable.
I could make thousands of dollars in a day if I just sold everything I own.
Our metrics of economic growth revolve around basically doing all of the above, to varying degrees of figurative vs. literal-ness.
This reminded me of an old joke:
Two economists are walking down the street with their friend when they come across a fresh, streaming pile of dog shit. The first economist jokingly tells the other “I’ll give you a million dollars if you eat that pile of dog shit”. To his surprise, the second economist grabs it off the ground and eats it without hesitation. A deal is a deal so the first economist hands over a million dollars.
A few minutes later they come across a second pile of shit. The second economist, wanting to give his peer a taste of his own medicine, says he’ll give the first economist a million dollars if he eats it. The first economist agrees and does so, winning him a million dollars.
Their friend, rather confused, asks what the point of all this was, the first economist gave the second economist a million dollars, and then the second economist gave it right back. All they’ve accomplished is to eat two piles of shit.
The two economists look rather taken aback. “Well sure,” they say, “but we’ve grown the economy by two million dollars!”
The story is interesting but not very lifelike. The first economist would be much richer than the first, if they were OK with spending that much money on humiliating someone else. The likelihood that the second economist would accept the same deal is impossible in my mind. That amount of money is just humiliation money to them, not really worth it.
That’s not how productivity works. It’s basically looking at how much a person can produce with a given amount of labor.
Take that small scale subsistence farmer. Individually, they will live a precarious life. Their country will not have the surplus food needed for other pursuits like building cities, engaging in R&D, developing science, and so on. A smaller and smaller number of people need to be able to feed more and more using less land per person.
Manually copied manuscripts are another example. They were painstakingly copied over by hand in an incredibly low productivity manner. The introduction of the printing press essentially eliminated an art form, but gave rise to practical mass media.
In the present day, computers have been the main form of productivity booster. While arguably social media is a drag on productivity, overall computers open up a broad range of possibilities.
Like yo, cancer is incredibly productive.
Cancer is incredibly costly to society. Think about it, a single person getting cancer could mean many hours of them being in the hospital. Net zero on productivity
Demolishing subsistence farms and replacing them with cash crop slave plantations is mad profitable.
As I detailed above, transitioning from unproductive farms to highly productive farms is necessary. Don’t believe me, ask Mao.
I could make thousands of dollars in a day if I just sold everything I own.
That would not be a productive activity since there would be no value added. Arguably there would be less value, since that stuff is likely worth more to you than it is to another person.
The problem in the US is that increasing productivity among individuals is not scaling evenly with increasing benefits for individuals. So despite the success of large scale agriculture or the efficiency offered by computers, it feels like “productivity for productivity’s sake” at best or “productivity for the wealthiest individuals’ sake” at worst. It is not productive for me to work harder at my job because it does not translate to any tangible benefit for me, my family, or my community. To me, this is what makes “productivity” feel like an abstract concept.
Like yo, cancer is incredibly productive.
Cancer is incredibly costly to society. Think about it, a single person getting cancer could mean many hours of them being in the hospital. Net zero on productivity
Bro, how could you misunderstand so badly. Cancer is literally uncontrolled cell production in the body. Cancer is highly productive (in the body) but obviously not a good thing to have in your body.
People have been told their entire lives that the GDP of their nation matters without ever considering what it actually represents, or how it actually went up.
Great, number go up, but why and who actually benefitted.
Excuse the week-old reply but
People have been told their entire lives that the GDP of their nation matters without ever considering what it actually represents, or how it actually went up.
You got a poor, poor education if you were never taught why the GDP matters, or what it represents.
Welcome to America
The 1%. Productivity has been going through the roof, wages have stagnated for decades.
Don’t you even think about the billionaires, bro?
Less trickling down for me
Don’t you understand? The line must go up as sharply as possible forever.
I’m a micro bro, don’t attempt to assuage me with your macro stats
I’m a micro bro
Sorry to hear that. I heard there are pills for it now.
my poor feelings!
Don’t want to brag, but I took my compulsory 2-week vacation in July. I’m having another week of vacation in the middle of August and I’m taking a whole month off in the middle of October when my second child is born (dad-vacation, in addition to the 18 months that the mom has as paid maternity leave). Oh and all of this is fully paid.
Which European country do you live in?
I don’t know which country he lives in but it could be Germany since I know that it’s like this in Germany.
Sounds very much like it. Paid leave for dads is what a few of my co-workers did.
I’ve had about 6 or 7 weeks of paid vacation this year already. A week long winter vacation and 4 week summer vacation and random days off in the middle of the week every now and then. The good thing about christian culture even though almost no-one is religious here is that we still get a day off for their holidays.
I had a few days off in spring, recently had my 2 weeks and another coming in october.
Not much but it’s sufficient to me (but more is always better).*Fully paid by your higher taxes.
I will gladly pay for those.
But as far as I am aware those higher taxes fuel other things paid leave. I believe paternity leave is subsidized by it.Having lived and worked in both the UK and US, yes I pay roughly 4% less “tax” in the US.
but, as I didn’t have to pay for Healthcare, and my student loans payments were a percentage of my earnings — vs the amount I’ve had to pay for Healthcare, copay, scripts, etc here. If we actually compare like for like and assume that Healthcare payments are only not called a tax out of a semantic convention for political reasons despite being practically a tax by nearly any definition - I’ve pay way more in “”““tax””“” in the US.
Assuming the average person earns roughly $65k, would you pay an extra $200 for 100% fully covered, fully comprehensive, $0 co-pay, you walk in (to your nearest hospital, no need to check if they’re in network) get an x-ray, a blood test, your appendix removed, stay over night, go back the next day for kidney dialysis or chemotherapy and pay nothing more than that monthly extra $200/rate in perpetuity? Especially as the average cost is $456 (+ co pay) for Healthcare and that usually isn’t a “good” let alone the “best” package.
God I wish I lived in a country with that kind of medical system.
I’m sick of being afraid of getting hurt (enough to need to visit a doctor at a hospital) not because of the injury to my body but the unknowable-ahead-of-time-and-might-also-bankrupt-you bill.
Fuck the selfish people in this country who are ruining it for everyone because they don’t want “undeserving” people getting free healthcare! Drives me bonkers!!!
I’ll add that I also wish I could go to the doctor anytime for any reason even if it’s just for a big particular pimple or a wart, and not have to think about the bill.
Not have to think is this worth spending $100+ on when it may go away on its own, or that I should just Google it instead of going to an actual doctor so I can save that money instead. This is WITH insurance btw. This is 10 fold worse with no insurance.
Germany is currently in the process of changing the healthcare system because it can’t be paid anymore. People paying no tax but going to the hospital and to the doctors for every little issue actually did destroy the system. Similar is happening with other “benefits”. People do not understand that these things aren’t actually free.
We are supporting each other in hard times and fun times. Whats the problem? Should we rather shoot, hate and make fun of each other instead?
Lol, we’ll see how that works out with your immigration policies.
Works good overseas, right? Imagine fearing an ER visit because of crippling debt or the ride with a fucking van to the ER itself.
Who’d have thought that prioritizing mental wellbeing, family, and health over corporate gains would be a good idea!? Surely this backwards commie system is doomed to fail!
I’d rather my country raise my tax to 50% than live in a country like America.
Ironically, the average total taxation (after you add local, regional, national, etc. taxes) is either lower or at a similar approx. 35% of income.
Americans just get stiffed by where that money goes afterwards.
I wonder how it ends if they add all the insurances, benefits etc. they would need to pay to get the same benefits as us.
How does that work exactly? Why would the government pay my vages during my summer holiday when I work for a private company? I’m afraid you have no idea what you’re talking about…
Yup! And all we get for it is healthcare, childcare, college tuition, pensions, sick leave, maternity leave…
Don’t forget reliable and comfortable public transport and properly maintained roads and public infrastructure.
yeah, in a few well-marketed cities you usually find on postcards. “Europe has great public transportation, I was in Munich last week…”, right, because whole continent = one city.
In majority of the cities and countryside it’s either get a car or get fucked.reliable
lol
* dependent by country
properly maintained roads
Laughs as he drives across the border into Belgium and has a filling shaken out
I try explaining this to fellow Americans that you end up paying much less in the end and never have the stress of how you’re going to afford this stuff (or possibly even lose everything to a sudden health problem) but it falls on deaf ears if they’ve already been brainwashed. They refuse to hear that other countries have things figured out to make the lives of their citizens much more enjoyable.
But imagine I’ll never get sick or have kids, then I’m losing money!!
Right?
*Fully paid by higher progressive taxes on wealthy people.
- paid by middle class, which cannot afford tax evasion.
Wealthy people in Europe don’t pay shit. It’s much easier than in the US, where only ultra-wealthy don’t pay shit.
^This is what the law and order crowed says when the law is for wealthy and powerful people.
Honestly, I was being a bit facetious by responding to an overly simplistic comment in an overly simplistic way. Personally, I think we should fund universal welfare programs by cutting out the ultra-wealthy middle man with a sovereign wealth fund like they do in Norway. No need to tax the ultra-wealthy if they don’t exist because they can’t extract the wealth from the people in the first place.
this “overly simplistic comment” has everything you need and more, but I’ll bite.
-
Wealthy people own companies. Companies are perfect tool for accumulating wealth, since you can reinvest profits forever and pay income tax (corporate rate) only on stuff you intend to extract to your own name, which is usually not much compared to total amount of generated income. Private person, on the other hand, is taxed on whole income and may qualify for usually laughable deductions. Got huge bonus from your job at the end of the year and plan to get few months off work to “invest in yourself” and learn a new trade? Tough luck, buddy, you are “rich” now - welcome to higher tax bracket, government will take their cut first and let’s see what you’ll be able to afford with what’s left.
-
VAT is a scam to fuck people who have to spend their income for actual living. If you live paycheck to paycheck you’ll end up paying VAT on your whole income.
-
Wealthy people don’t get their income in salary, salary is for working class. Dividends, capital gains, royalties - in any jurisdiction it’s possible to find something which will be less severe than income tax, which is also often not progressive or capped at something like 20%. Social security contributions are easily bypassed by employing yourself as CEO for minimal salary. Boom - now you have same healthcare as people who have to pay great chunk of their whole paycheck for it.
-
If we restrict ourselves to EU citizens and your particular country is really anal or maybe 20% or something tax is too much for you anyway - you are free to move to Cyprus, Malta or Switzerland, which will have 0% capital gains if you meet not too tough conditions. Or “move”, you just have to get a residence there to declare as your primary one and be present at least sometimes - there’s no border control, it’s really hard to track if you spent there more than half a year for tax residency purposes, this is usually a matter of long legal battles and you won’t even get into that territory if you’re not doing anything too bizarre.
This is a biggest difference with US citizens, they can’t benefit from tax havens because of their passport, IRS doesn’t care and is good equipped with lots of info, so US guys are left with real shady stuff with nominees and cash or traditional buy-borrow-die, which is sustainable only for ultra-rich.
I’m living and doing business in EU and it took me quite a lot of time to get from nothing into the position where I can utilize at least some of the benefits of the above - but you have to be completely fucking blind to not see that it’s rigged and tax burden on people who don’t try to game the system is completely disproportional.
Wealthy people own companies. Companies are perfect tool for accumulating wealth, since you can reinvest profits forever and pay income tax (corporate rate) only on stuff you intend to extract to your own name, which is usually not much compared to total amount of generated income.
Right… to get at that wealth through taxes you would need a wealth tax or a tax on corporate profits along with outlawing stock buy backs.
Private person, on the other hand, is taxed on whole income and may qualify for usually laughable deductions. Got huge bonus from your job at the end of the year and plan to get few months off work to “invest in yourself” and learn a new trade? Tough luck, buddy, you are “rich” now - welcome to higher tax bracket, government will take their cut first and let’s see what you’ll be able to afford with what’s left.
That’s not how a progressive taxes work. Under progressive tax you get taxed at a higher rate as you make more money, but only the amount above a certain threshold is taxed higher, you’re not going to receive less money because you make above a certain amount as you seem to be implying. It’s explained more fully in this short video. https://youtu.be/VJhsjUPDulw
In terms of reinvesting in yourself, yes there should be universal access to education. If you’re capable and desire to improve yourself through education that should be free and you should be paid to pursue that self improvement. A society made up of smarter people benefits us all, we should make that investment.
VAT is a scam to fuck people who have to spend their income for actual living. If you live paycheck to paycheck you’ll end up paying VAT on your whole income.
Agreed VAT is a regressive tax that taxes the poor more. We see 100% eye to eye here.
Wealthy people don’t get their income in salary, salary is for working class. Dividends, capital gains, royalties - in any jurisdiction it’s possible to find something which will be less severe than income tax, which is also often not progressive or capped at something like 20%.
Well, yes which is why I said I support sovereign wealth funds. That is the state owns portions of companies directly in the same way other shareholders do. This cuts out the wealthy people entirely. The State can then use dividends of that fund to invest in social services. It can also use it’s position as a shareholder to give working people better labor contracts.
Dividends, capital gains, royalties - in any jurisdiction it’s possible to find something which will be less severe than income tax, which is also often not progressive or capped at something like 20%.
So you support lowering incoming taxes and raising taxes on dividends, capital gains, royalties? Sound like a decent policy to me. Well this is something else to consider; its almost like its more complicated than my original sarcastic comment implied.
Social security contributions are easily bypassed by employing yourself as CEO for minimal salary. Boom - now you have same healthcare as people who have to pay great chunk of their whole paycheck for it.
Uhh… yeah we should close that loopholes, right? Even if we didn’t close that loophole I still think its a much better system for healthcare than in the US.
If we restrict ourselves to EU citizens and your particular country is really anal or maybe 20% or something tax is too much for you anyway - you are free to move to Cyprus, Malta or Switzerland, which will have 0% capital gains if you meet not too tough conditions. Or “move”, you just have to get a residence there to declare as your primary one and be present at least sometimes - there’s no border control, it’s really hard to track if you spent there more than half a year for tax residency purposes, this is usually a matter of long legal battles and you won’t even get into that territory if you’re not doing anything too bizarre.
Not all that familiar with these kinds of tax dodging schemes within in the EU. But US corporations do similar things with the Cayman Islands. We could probably close these loopholes with enough political will. But again the easier and cleaner solution is a sovereign wealth fund which I mentioned in my first comment responding to you and you have not yet acknowledged as a way of raising funds.
I’m living and doing business in EU and it took me quite a lot of time to get from nothing into the position where I can utilize at least some of the benefits of the above - but you have to be completely fucking blind to not see that it’s rigged and tax burden on people who don’t try to game the system is completely disproportional.
Perhaps that is how things are but how should things be?
Right… to get at that wealth through taxes you would need a wealth tax or a tax on corporate profits along with outlawing stock buy backs.
No, you just need to prohibit forming 1-man holding companies. Want to have shares? Write them to your own name, not to a shell company’s name. That’s a first step to get this income at least tied to individual. Or get a hedge fund license, which ultra-rich will do, but they will find a way in any system other than full commie madness.
That’s not how a progressive taxes work.
I know perfectly well how progressive taxes work. In majority of cases bonus from employer will be taxed at source at higher tax rate regardless what you plan to spend it to. Even if your plans for these money would be fully deductible, you will still need to have spare cash to cover planned expenses until you get a refund. In case of wealthy person, there’s a privilege to optimize your spending first and report/pay taxes later simply because there’s no taxation at source involved.
Well, yes which is why I said I support sovereign wealth funds. That is the state owns portions of companies directly in the same way other shareholders do. This cuts out the wealthy people entirely.
No, it doesn’t unless you propose nationalization. Even if shares in publicly-listed companies will be bought in some way said fund it’s still possible to have billions in privately-held company. You can’t get something that is not for sale unless you decide to rob.
So you support lowering incoming taxes and raising taxes on dividends, capital gains, royalties?
What I’m proposing is irrelevant, the topic was who is paying for European social security. And my point is that it’s paid by poor and middle class, since they have no freedom in optimizing and planning their income. You can have tax brackets up to 99%, it’s absolutely irrelevant before a discussion what is subject to this tax. However, works well for populism reasons.
Uhh… yeah we should close that loopholes, right? Even if we didn’t close that loophole I still think its a much better system for healthcare than in the US
It’s not a loophole, it’s perfectly normal to have a paying job along with your other income sources. If these other income sources would’ve been subject for same tax brackets as job income, there wouldn’t be a problem.
US healthcare is a scam which siphons insane amount of money simultaneously from government and people, I don’t think there’s any valid argument in favor of it.Not all that familiar with these kinds of tax dodging schemes within in the EU. But US corporations do similar things with the Cayman Islands.
Corporations could be established everywhere, corporate tax rate is another topic. In EU it’s possible to dodge taxes on your personal income, not corporate, which is not the case for US citizens.
Perhaps that is how things are but how should things be?
Again, how things should be is another topic, my original point is that high income taxes and tax brackets with what currently considered as income is cheap populism to shaft middle class. When applied to wealthy people this will catch a few exceptional individual performers like sports players which have no case in declaring their individual ability as company activity (ironically, only on “salary” part of their income - brand deals and royalties will be optimized into oblivion).
As of what would be fair… Removing VAT, eliminating 1-man holding companies to get assets to individual’s name then doing same tax rate and get any income to be subject for same tax brackets and social security contributions as everyday man’s salary. Regarding taxation at source and deductions for individuals… well, that would be also fair, but it is operational nightmare.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/VJhsjUPDulw
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
-
Yeah just go to Monaco. It’s infuriating.
That sounds really good, where do you work?
I’m guessing Norway, Finland, or Sweden.
Czechia and Slovakia have very similar paternity and maternity leaves.
Or France
Or Germany.
France is great, but you won’t have the same materny leaves as in the more northern countries.
Dads now get 1 month of paternity leave in France \o/ (actually for a few years now)
Oooo that must sting.
Also, it’s not just about time off, you can have decent time off (not 6 weeks, but decent), but the culture can be hyper competitive.
Do an even better comparison: school vacaancies with work vacancies. That’s real life. GPT/BARD might help speed it up
I have 30 days PTO + 12 or 13 federal. I also make 40-50k more than EU devs.
That soons like a good gig. But i am curious, how much of this extra 50k is left after you factor in health insurance and other utilities? I heard health insurance is expensive is the USA, but i actually have no clue how much it is.
About 2.4k/yr for my entire family. Afaik on average utilities are cheaper here.
Oh yeah, it’s not so expensive.
After a certain point money becomes much less of a motivator I find. I could probably make 20-30k more in the US.
But I live in a MCOL area, family and friends are close, I work only 4 days a week, my job provides me with an electric car off my choice (with private use), I live close to countries I enjoy spending my vacations in, I have affordable healthcare, I have a very solid safety net, decent pension system, public infrastructure is fantastic, I live knowing my fellow citizens enjoy many of those same things, etc.
I’m not really going to compromise on all that other stuff. The two things I am envious off are space and access to the wilderness.
Not trying to argue but we have all of that in the states. It’s slightly more expensive, but again, I make more.
My point, is it’s not a hell scape like reddit/lemmy would have you believe.
Starting at 90 or 100k you’ll find that the quality of living here is superior in most aspects. Probably not worth leaving friends and family behind of course.
Ok?
Okay.
Does everyone have healthcare?
Canadian here, no, not at all. I had a family doctor but they retired, the new doctor was already full up so I am left without a family doctor. If I need medication it has to be paid for out of pocket, any dentistry that is not life altering (cleaning, fillings, braces/retainers/corrections) has to be paid for out of pocket. Therapy? Out of pocket. Glasses, hearing aids, you guessed it.
Sure you could have a job with health coverage but that is up to the discretion of your employer, they can drop your coverage and all you can do is nothing. Canadian health care is an absolute embarrassment and should never be celebrated as some achievement over the only country with a worse system than ours.
Might depend on province. I’m in BC, never had issue with Doctor. Bi Yearly vision checks, if you don’t have employer plan you signup for pharmacare and based on income once you hit a threshold all meds are free. Or free from the start with a disability status application. And I do celebrate our system even though it is not perfect, I had Cancer. Biopsy, CAT, PETS, FMRI, surgery, chemo and radiation, hospital stay all free. cost me $70 parking pass at cancer center. If that was in the USA id be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars owing
Caring about health? Proof of aliens
i do!
also im a student and getting paid monthly to do so.
HA
For a meager $18000/year with copays and premiums. Murica!
Don’t forget they won’t help you until you spend a couple of thousands out of pocket first.
I’m neither so i don’t get it, any help?
Top panel is explaining why Americana are better than Europeans. Bottom panel retorts with saying that they’re on vacation. Europeans get more paid vacation time than Americans.
EDIT: Added “paid” vacation time. Also, someone else mentions that it’s obligated, so they have to take it. I’m not sure about this, so I’m not editing above to include it, but there you go.
*paid vacation time.
Thank you, edited my comment to include this.
*Obligatory paid vacation time.
Godd I love my mandatory, obligatory, 5 weeks of paid vacation time!
~Sincerely, the Dutch
I usually just take a week over summer then the other 6 weeks at other times of the year. Hotels, fights and stuff pretty much double their prices over the summer.
I can do you a half price fight. Just come over and tell me my mom can’t cook.
Your momma is so stupid, she burns the water to make tea.
Yo momma . . . is a wonderful person for whom I have great admiration.
Thank you Mr Sandler. :-D
This is the way.
Which side means I get to have rights and keep them?
For this question it’s important to understand that there are positive and negative rights, a positive right might give you the ability to do something like shoot a gun, a negative right might be a right that forbids killing you, both are very important and are often in conflict with one another.
Knowing this a 40h work week and paid vacation of 5 weeks is a negative right forbidding your employer from exploiting you for more than that time. On the other hand social security and similar things are positive rights allowing you access to resources where otherwise you wouldn’t have any/enough.
Keeping this in mind and assuming that economic rights are generally the most important for freedom under a capitalist system, because fundamentally almost every positive right you want to use also requires you to have money. And assuming freedom is greater if more people are reasonably free than if few people are completely free.
Europe I’d say.
Yeah this is 50-50 my right to maintain my existence as a lesbian/trans woman and my right to like function as a human being with biological, social, and spiritual needs.
I’d love to get to the point where I can tell my boss I don’t answer messages or show up to work during Beltane or Mabon, but as it is I’ll keep hoarding my pto in the hopes that if I get Covid again I don’t have to share it with my coworkers.
Holy fuck I need to radically unionize my workplace…
Europe I’d say
Sorry to say but the battle is never won there, it’s a constant fight to gain and maintain rights for as many people as possible.
And to stop authoritarian rules based on faith tradition.
removed by mod
I couldn’t justify a 80k-100k pay cut for an extra week of PTO.
What about three weeks of extra annual leave, public holidays, real healthcare with no bullshit co-pays (and unlimited sick days, they don’t count towards “pto”), a maximum 35 hour work week… Because that’s more like what it would look like for a higher value job like that. Depends on the country and the job, of course. But in my case in the UK right now, and in my last job in Germany, my total “pto” in US terms has been roughly two months. (Which is a lot even here, but it’s not by any means unheard of, and easy to get if it’s a priority to you). Doing a job with an average salary of about 100k in the US, and I get paid a little over 50k £ for it, which is about 1.5 times the median salary here, so even after the recent inflation it affords a pretty comfortable lifestyle, it’s enough money to pay the mortgage and take holidays to the continent in my ample time off.
Sorry, this turned into a bit of a rant, but tldr: it’s not just “an extra week”
.png){kind=link}