The atmosphere is so heated, and the statements are getting more and more extreme. Let’s just assume Harris wins the election. After a campaign like this, how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
I don’t want a normal relationship with my Trump loving neighbor. He and his racist wife can go fuck themselves. Their signs and banners told me who they are. I’m choosing to listen
I still can’t look you people (Americans) in the face from the last dozen horrible things you’ve collectively done.
How can you ever let your guard down around this maniac society, let alone go back to normal?
Living in the interior of the stolen lands, what normal do you even think there is to offer? Endless towns build on nothing but walmarts and jails, having displaced any culture of value generations ago.
Speaking as an American, I hate how our government runs, there are tons of issues with it, and I do what I can’t to help fix it. Like the majority of us are not happy, but we have not collectively done these things, most of the terrible things that have happened in America are the machinations of a wealthy elite who have been able to shape voting districts and policy thanks to continually laxing regulations and unfettered capitalism.
I was just born here, I didn’t make this place. This place isn’t what I want it to be. Just line any other country, we are all just people trying to live and get something out of life. With the way the education system is here most people don’t even realize how ass backwards things are because “that’s how it’s always been” for them. It’s upsetting. But it doesn’t make them bad people, just naive usually. This is why things like intersectionality and critical race theory are so important and this is why the far right in this country is pushing against them. The issues in America boil down to race and class based inequality, intentional defunding of public programs, and then miseducation of the populous on these issues and how they actually affect everyone. I promise you those of us who understand all this are doing everything we can do reverse course. Personally everything happening here weighs on me heavily and I often forget to enjoy what’s right in front of me because the big picture is so scary. It’s stressful as fuck.
And which country are you from?
Right? How does anyone make that statement about people today “living in stolen lands”?
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Oh, that’s easy; we don’t! Every four years, the fabric of our society frays and tears a little more, while our politicians either exploit our divisions or attempt to repair them without making any changes to the material conditions or systemic problems that create these fractures, because fixing these underlying issues would upset the handful of billionaires that actually control our government! But there’s a new Fast & Furious movie every two or three years, so it balances out.
because fixing these underlying issues would upset the handful of billionaires that actually control our government
And how exactly are they supposed to do that without a super majority that is impossible with the population continuing to elect MAGA Republicans?
There is no bipartisan possibilities. No one from the right will step across the aisle to make constitutional amendments or impeach corrupt SCOTUS justices or fascist party members. And they’d need 1/3rd of them to do so for the authority to fix anything.
There is no moving on. Nothing can be fixed. Voters should have woken up after Jan 6th, but Republicans still gained seats in the mid term elections.
There is no legal path to fixing this, we can only do our best to bail water and keep them from sinking the ship.
History didn’t start in 2016. The Democrats were happy to cozy up to the Silicone Valley tech giants, even as they developed into monopolies whose products gave users the very brain-poisoning that delivered Trump. They were happy to prioritize Wall Street bailouts over homeowners’ bailouts after the subprime mortgage crises, even if meant their constituents lost their homes. They’ve been happy to sideline or undermine anyone who dares run to their left, from Bernie Sanders to Rashida Tlaib.
The Democrats are not well-meaning, helpless progressives that just can’t get anything done because of America’s byzantine political structure. They have actively stopped any significant changes to the status quo in order to keep their donors happy. They’ve spent decades deluding themselves into thinking they could somehow improve conditions for the working class without demanding concessions from the billionaire class, even as the largest wealth transfer in history, from the lowest income Americans to the highest income Americans, was taking place. They may not be as vile or hateful as the Republicans, but they are just as responsible for America’s decay.
There’s miles of difference between the damage that corporate stooges do versus a literal fascist movement. If this were the 2000s, yeah, I’d be with you all the way, both sides pillaging our futures and all that.
But you’re focused on that asshole stealing your catalytic converter down the street, when you’re actively getting mugged and curb stomped, here and now.
There is a very real possibility of this country descending into fascist dictatorship, and/or huge loss of life from an ensuing Civil War.
Right now, the Dems are at least united like they haven’t been in recent memory because they finally understand what’s at stake. It is absolutely infuriating that you guys are still nitpicking over comparatively trivial stuff compared to cataclysm.
This isn’t hyperbole, this is literally what they have been repeatedly caught expressly trying to accomplish. Yes, it seems like it’s crazy to consider that they might actually achieve their goals. But with everything we know, Trump is still very likely to win this election thanks to people like you who can’t seem to prioritize the violent muggers trying to kill you, over the guy stealing your catalytic converter.
What about my original comment led you to believe I thought they were equivalent? As I said, Republicans are vile, hateful, and exploiting our political divisions for power. But the Democrats are just as responsible for the material conditions that have allowed facism to flourish, and demanding accountability and change for that isn’t nitpicking. If the Democrats don’t stop being corporate stooges, this doesn’t end if Trump is defeated; it ends when another fascist finally wins.
Yup, but they’re all we got at the moment.
Yup. We gotta vote for them this election, but replace them in the next. Otherwise, we’re just hitting snooze on fascism for another 4 years.
Not only that, but if they fix the problems that they used to get your votes, they can’t use them again next election, and we can’t have that so at most you get a pittance of “fixes” while they just blame the other side for blocking it and then the other side does it with a few of their issues. And we’ll keep voting for them too because A) who else? B) the other guy is worse, and C) this time they really will fix everything they continually run on. Any day now…
Those people have proven themselves to not be worthy of a relationship. Those people should be shunned for being inhumane monsters, not welcomed back into society. They will not change. They hate me and the people I love. I, and I assume many others like me, will never forgive, and never forget. And they will not stop. Even if we win the election, we will not have beaten them. This will only escalate until we beat them back and crush their ideology.
It is like any other election for me. I don’t want either of them. I’m guaranteed to be disappointed.
Honestly I’m as agoraphobic as they come so, since I hardly ever leave my residence, I find it quite easy to forget that it’s an election year, aside from many of the news outlets and media posts dictating it. My life outside of the internet has hardly any political interference.
Yes I still vote, but I keep my political beliefs to myself, but As Marcus Aurelius said, “You always own the option of having no opinion. There is never any need to get worked up or to trouble your soul about things you can’t control”
I take a lot of solace in that. I know certain things and have certain opinions but I am absolutely not a politician and it’s not something I’ll wreck my soul over. Life is short enough as it is.
They are just politicians and it is really not that serious. The race is tight and whomever wins is fine. There will be another election in two years and another two years after that for as long as you live.
You don’t.
Exactly. We certainly didn’t after the LAST one.
If Harris wins, ideally I’ll do all the things I’ve been putting off until after the election. I’ve been meaning to update the address on my driver’s license, the registration on my car, and several other things like that.
I live in a deep red state; I’ve been paranoid about getting them done, for fear of my voter registration “happening” to get lost in the process. And then I’d finally have an excuse to never visit my hardcore right-wing parents ever again, because my mail won’t be showing up at their house anymore.
If Trump wins, I’m not going to update anything. I plan to flee. I don’t have the means to leave the country, but I’ve got friends in blue states who are happy to take me in. That’s better than nothing, I guess.
Don’t assume that the majority of people who vote for Trump, are MAGA.
Many, if not most, are the same as many Biden/Harris voters in that they hate both candidates, and are voting for who they view as the lesser of two evils.
As I’m a Lemmy user, you can safely assume I’m not one of them, but the point stands.
But, if you’re talking about people who have gone full on MAGA insanity, well they probably got there somewhere between 2016 and 2020, so there’s not a a ton of new converts to deal with.
And even with then, they’re the minority of a minority.
Of course, if someone is of the opinion that anyone who votes for Trump, no matter the reason, must be excised from their life, well that’s their choice, but I kind of pity them.
Trump is not Hitler. He’s too lazy and stupid to be Hitler. Let’s not pretend that voting for Trump is the same as supporting Hitler, it’s not.
He’s a piece of shit authoritarian, but on the scale of American Presidents, the areas where he deviates the most from the norm, is how stupid and crass his corruption and racism is, not that he was corrupt and racist.
No sane person can listen to a second of Trump and call him less evil than anyone. Anyone who votes for him is voting for a fascist state, and you’re not fooling anyone by pretending you’re not.
You’re the type of liberal who actually believes Dubya is a good man, or a better president than Trump.
Nevermind that he killed over a million people in Iraq.
Trump is a malignant tumor, no doubt.
But so are people who campaign alongside Dick Cheney.
Good man? No. Better than Trump? Yes. That is not a high bar. As far as I am aware, Dubya didn’t cheat on his wife with a pornstar, then embezzle money to silence so he could win an election, all the while talking about taking advantage of his fame so he can molest women.
Well it’s good to see that a million dead Iraqis is definitely not worse than fucking pornstars and embezzlement…
That’s dark dude, like holy shit your sense of morality and justice is so bent that I’m blown away.
Trump has not been in a situation where he can declare war on Iraq. He has been in a situation where he can threaten to pull support from Ukraine if they don’t help him rig an election, and has said Biden is too hard on Israel. So they’re the same on morals in that regard, if not opportunities.
But both of them have been in elections. So with the same baseline situation, Trump is worse.
You’re comparing tangibles to intangibles, hypotheticals, and combining it with a very confused sense of morality.
The fact that you can’t see past Trump to understand that actually killing one million human beings is worse then anything he did, is depressing.
Do you not understand that Trump can be a malignant tumor and dangerous all on his own, without having to pretend that anything he did even remotely compares to directly killing 1 million innocent people?
Or maybe you don’t care because they’re Arab? I know you’ll balk at that, throw out all the right signifiers, and maybe even throw a “how dare you” my way, but I’m not left with many other options to understand to your rational.
Yes, Trump hasn’t killed a million people. Trump was not the president in the days after 9/11, where the majority of americans supported a war on Iraq. Trump did not have the same opportunity to kill a million people that Bush did.
However, we can see Trump’s opinions on Palestine. We can see Trump’s opinions on Ukraine. We can see just as much malicious support of genocide as Bush had, if not more. The only difference is the opportunity to act on it.
So I won’t use the Iraq war as a marker of morality. That’s not a fair comparison.
I will instead judge them based on a situation that both of them had, where only one of them took it. Bush had the opportunity to cheat on his wife and embezzle campaign funds to hide it. Bush had the opportunity to hide government secrets in his private residence. Bush did not do these things.
Please note that being better than Trump is such a fucking low bar, it’s astonishing you think that means I’m saying Bush isn’t a piece of shit. Less repugnant than Trump is still fucking repugnant.
Voting for Trump (or for any Republican candidate for elected office) is voting for one-party autocracy. Even if the individual is ethical, they will be pressured into serving the party (or removed for a more loyalist alternative). Not voting for a Democrat when there’s a Republican candidate is not voting against one party autocracy.
Trump is not Hitler. He’s the Secret Hitler of this election. Even if he’s less bright than Hitler and less charismatic than Hitler, he’s fulfilling the same role, and the outcome will be the same, a one-party autocracy propped up by fascist enemy-within rhetoric and a massive deportation effort that will ultimately turn into a massive evacuation effort. (That is, evacuation into mass graves, or even an ash pit).
We are on the precipice. Do not fuck around. Do not think otherwise. Do not let anyone else think otherwise. If Trump wins, the world is going to hold America’s beer while it works to enact a holocaust that dwarfs the Holocaust… unless the resistance is really good (it’s probably not) or the Allies overrun Washington (not in time).
I’ve ended my relationship with my father, and the one with my mom/step dad is on shaky ground, though they’ve just swapped their vote for Kamala (it took way too much convincing for that to happen though).
Here’s the issue I have with these people, post the 2024 (and truthfully, even the 2020) election.
Reasons to vote for trump at this point in the game:
- They’ve seen what he’s said and the kinds of actions he’s made and his hate/violent rhetoric/attempted coup/felonies/treason with classified documents/overt Fascism/dictator comments/etc/etc/etc, just the fucking worst a US president, hell even a citizen, can do to abuse their power, position, and hurt their fellow Americans in the process; And they’re for it. They support their brand of fascism. Because for some reason they agree with his message and think they’re going to come out aces after the dust settles from WW3
- They’re ignorant to literally every piece of media, news outlets, cable TV, print, tiktok, fucking Joe fucking Rogan shit, and they genuinely don’t understand why voting for trump is bad.
In both of those cases, they are absolutely not to be trusted. I don’t think there’s too many people left in the second use case, but even so, every single one of his supporters is not to be trusted or respected ever again. They’ve shown their true side, and it’s the worst humanity has to offer.
I didn’t realize we had that many pieces of shit living here in America, but we do. So I refuse to associate with them ever again. I will not do business or have any interaction with them again, if I can help it.
They’ve isolated themselves. I will not fall victim to the paradox of intolerance. I refuse to tolerate Nazi’s living in my country. And at this point, everyone who’s voting for trump is a Nazi.
I don’t give a shit if semantically that’s not a PC statement. This is the truth. Downvoting will not change that fact. If you support trump today, you are a fascist that is most closely aligned with the Nazi ideals. I don’t want to hear the excuses, or what someone is “really” supporting trump for. It’s all noise and bullshit to hide the fact that they are deeply disgusting people all the way through who I do not want in my life, or in power making decisions that could affect me or the people I care about.
I don’t know your situation, but turning from family will only harden their resolve and make them more defensive. I went through this with my mom. She voted for Trump in 2020, after years of me telling her how bad he was. I was angry and didn’t talk to her for 2 months. During this time I heard a podcast with David McRaney, about how to talk to QAnon people. It helped me to understand how they got there, and how to help them out of it. It is a process. They operate on an emotional level, and you have to relate to them on emotional level. After that, you question how they arrived at their decisions. Like:
If I asked what your favorite movie is, could you explain why it’s your favorite movie?
Emotionally connecting with them and then thoughtfully questioning their beliefs, in a non-condescending way can be beneficial. It may take days or months, but once the seed of doubt is planted, it can start a dialogue. Remember, these are people we love ❤️, we owe it to ourselves to be compassionate in conversations.
Always hurts when they believe the TV more than you
I sincerely appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply. It sounds like you’re a damn good person, and your mom was worth it as well.
I left out, but probably should have mentioned that even before the trump/MAGA stuff came into their lives, we had a deep divide due to a lot of trauma and issues they inflicted on me during my childhood. Both of my parents are different types of deep narcissists, with deeprooted religious beliefs that untether them from reality (e.g. they admitted they would kill me, my siblings, their grandchildren, etc. if they thought god told them to; that sort of thing). Neither of them gave me anything in life, didn’t pay for anything really (my dad’s child support was spent to keep my mom’s side able to “not work”, without much spent on me or my siblings), my mom chased a sibling around the dinner table with a steak knife trying to stab him (it wasn’t until much later that she’d get medication to help with these episodes), and just generally all the awful normal stuff that happens between divorced parents that deeply, deeply, hate each other and are willing to burn the world down if it meant the other person wouldn’t have a pot to piss in. This unfortunately included putting all of us through tons of abuse, court custody cases, CPS visits, police visits (I’ve had to have my fingerprints done I was 6 because of some serious shit that happened and they needed to isolate the prints that weren’t me or another family members to find the culprit), etc. (like, seriously etc.+1000. I could go on for literal days with all the shit that they put me and my siblings through over the years. Haven’t even scratched the surface).
The trump thing was a very large straw that broke the camel’s back. They were already on thin ice as shitty human beings that refuse to apologize for the damage they did to me and my siblings over the years, and continue to do (I have one of my brother’s living with me right now, because of them).
My relationship with my dad ended after he exploded and physically assaulted me in front of his home. I tried to reconcile and work with him through one of our siblings as a mediator and he flew off the handle again accusing me of disrespecting his authority (which was not just taking everything he tells me as “fact” and “morally correct” since I’m considered an “amoral atheist”…), at which point I cut him out of my life. I just don’t need that shit added to everything else on my plate in life. He was never there for me, my friends were my family.
Anyhow, again, not to detract from your kind and optimistic reply. Anyone else in a different situation, I would encourage to take your advice.
For me though? Hopefully the context I’ve added starts to paint the picture of why that’s a bridge too far. Even if we somehow got through/past all the trump nonsense, we still have all the above, and about 100x that which I just didn’t want to burden a reader with going through all my trauma ;)
It certainly sounds like you made the right choice for you if there is a violent history. Hope for the best for you and your brother.
They’re ignorant to literally every piece of media, news outlets, cable TV, print, tiktok, fucking Joe fucking Rogan shit, and they genuinely don’t understand why voting for trump is bad.
I think you underestimate both 1) how many news orgs/media spaces/social communities only report on Trump’s successes and democrat scandals and 2) how much of an echo chamber these people live in. Add on a few natural cognitive biases, such as team thinking and discarding evidence contrary to one’s worldview, and you have pretty much the majority of Trump voters at this time.
They are completely immersed in a world where democrats generally are evil and Trump is one of the good guys. Nothing has ever challenged them out of it, because at this point the challenges are just part of the narrative of good vs evil. Whether this changes your conclusions or not, I dunno (dunno whether I think it even should change your conclusion!), but I figure it’s worthwhile giving an accurate depiction of people. Not all malicious and/or super-ignorant, but rather simply cloistered.
Unless we get a blow-out for either candidate that cannot be challenged, which does not seem likely based on the polls and battle lines, even if we have a Biden-esque victory for Harris, I’m fairly unsure of what will happen next. I personally doubt full on Civil War like in the Garland movie, or the actual civil war, but I would expect all kinds of shitty legal tricks, possible Supreme Court involvement and of course, stochastic and targeted violence, particularly towards immigrants and minorities. In other words, win or lose, I think the US may be in for a bad time. Hopefully I’m working in my assumptions here and it is somewhat more boring.
To better answer your question though, assuming things don’t completely fall apart: the two sides already don’t mix much, which is part of the problem in the first place. We’ll get more govt inaction due to gridlocked congress, probably more defense spending and some states, in the absence of federal legislating, will continue to take a larger role as they have been doing already in the recent era.
So basically more of the same, on a not-great trend line. Something has to give at some point, it’s hard to imagine how you could put the genie back in the bottle now, particularly with overall conditions in the world due to late-stage capitalism and climate change constricting each year.
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Lol.
What’s normal?
Maybe this is the reason why American election campaigns never really end.
