This is literally my parents. They told me to stop criticizing the people in power, even going as far as saying I shouldn’t criticize the government of my former country. I don’t even have citizenship in my former country anymore, not sure how I could even get in trouble for criticizing is effecively a foreign country to me. (I’m talking about PRC btw).
My mom told me to “just focus on improving your own life and stop worrying about things like you can’t control like politics” (as in, both the politics of my former country and the politics of my current country)
Am I in the wrong here? Should I just keep quiet and not say anything so that I don’t “get in trouble”?
Well it kinda depends. If criticizing the government could get you disappeared, then yeah, it’s logical for your parents to discourage that so they don’t lose you. It’s possible that they lost someone in your old country because of that and they don’t want to have that happen again.
On the other hand, if your new country has freedom of speech enshrined in law (and that law seems to be followed) then yeah, it would be silly not to criticize if you have criticisms.
Your mom has a point, focusing on things you cannot control might not be the best use of your time. If you disagree, then that’s fine, that’s your decision. I know that personally, I can get fixated on politics which will make me depressed, anxious, and overall shitty feeling. I need to carefully balance awareness/protest and what I can reasonably hope to achieve with my general quality of life.
I tell my kid both.
Keep out of trouble so when you do cause trouble, no one will point at you and say “it’s probably him like last time”
I teach him to question everything, even me, and I tell him when I was wrong about something, or got new information, or that I don’t know something and we look it up.
I teach him to look at why someone is doing something if it seems weird, they probably have ulterior motives.
I teach him to cover his tracks and only steal from corporations, not your neighbors, or normal everyday working people. They work hard for their possessions, steal from the rich if you have to. And do it carefully and methodical, no reason to go to jail over something basic.
I teach him to stick up for those that can’t defend themselves, and ask him regularly if he’s being bullied and make sure he’s not bullying anyone.
We have a deal if he sees any kid, even if he doesn’t know them, not eating lunch to tell me so we can pack two next time.
He did something recently he wasn’t supposed to and lost his switch for the weekend. I showed him how I caught him so he can be better and sneakier.
I’m not rich by any means, but he’s more privileged than most, he’s very humble and looks out for others as well.
I mentioned this to a teacher I had a group dinner with when we were introducing ourselves, she looked at me like I had 3 heads. I trust my kid, trouble will happen, no doubt, he will be prepared.
It is clear that your parents are concerned for your safety and well being and I don’t think that is an unreasonable position to have. Nobody wants to learn that their child was arrested or killed at a protest.
However. Great change does not come from folks staying safe and quiet at home.
I think many parents are struggling with this right now. On one hand it is our duty as citizens to do something about the world around us and not sit in complacency. On the other hand that’s extremely dangerous to do in the current environment. I doubly respect this concern coming from Chinese folks who may have experience with having their speech suppressed in the past.
I support you being out in the streets and making a big noise with the rest of us. But I am not your family. If you were to die, or be taken prisoner, at a protest I would never know your name, only that you were my brother who gave his life for our cause. You would have my unending respect but in the end what I think of you shouldn’t matter for you and yours.
Protesting is dangerous. More so now than ever before. Things worth doing are never easy but this, especially, is something that has a serious chance of ending or ruining your life. Make your peace with that, or avoid it if you can’t. The world needs dissenters right now, but it needs ones that are well seated in their confidence.
At the end of the day though, no matter what happens, I can’t be mad at anyone for prioritizing their personal safety. A revolution will require sacrifice but that isn’t something that can be asked of someone. It is given freely or not at all. Your parents are asking you not to make a sacrifice.
Are you the person who was born in China then moved while super young to the US? If I remember correctly a few posts back you were arguing for not watching to upset either country for your parents exact reasoning. It’s not hard to understand your immigrant family wanting to play it safe :)
If you’re and your family are US citizens and rarely travel to China there would be few repercussions from critique but what do you hope to achieve other than getting yourself onto a list?
For America, if you all are all full US citizens than you’re safer if you’re not. If anyone is not a citizen even a green card holder you should shut up yesterday.
Seeing that the PRC has secret, illegal police in the US, are known to go after Chinese in the US, coupled with the US not being a country of laws…well, you do you. Just don’t do it in ignorance.
Well, Fuck…
Is there any EU citizen willing to do marriage? (for the immigration visa 👀)
/s I’m kidding, nobody even likes me lol
There are secret police here as well
Source?
https://m.hvg.hu/itthon/20221101_kinai_rendorors_budapest
though it can be questionable if this place can be considered the EU…
Oh!
I thought you were saying the EU had secret police XD
Im tired brain broke
No worries either way, asking for a source is always a good idea :)
LOL, you and me both. I’m too old to make any radical changes, but I’ve encouraged my kid to finish a University degree that will get him a job outside of the country. I think if I married for emmigration purposes, I’d end up in Hungry or something. Out of the pan and into the fire.
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We’re always fighting the last war. Take their input seriously but also understand that the world you live in is different from the one they grew up in. They’re trying to teach you how to stay safe under a dictatorship, they don’t want your life to be ruined because you got mad about a thing once in college.
This , people who criticise govenrment in a dictator led country dissapear , lose job opportunities , are suicided by 2 gunshots to the back of th head etc
Sort of like how the CIA tried to blackmail MLK into suicide and then had him killed when he refused to back down?
How many non-capitalist countries has the US bombed, overthrown through black ops, sanctioned or embargoed?
The US is every bit as bad fascist Russia, but Americans are so brainwashed that they refuse to see it. Even if you tell Americans about how the US infected black men with syphilis and forbid the doctors from treating it, Americans will just bury their head in the sand
Yeah you shit out that angy whataboutism
Show that western pig who’s boss!
Agree , america bad … but noone mentioned anything about america before u did , we’re talking 3rd world dictatorsh… ohhhhh waiiiit
Two powerful countries doesn’t like peoole like me and we got a commenter (the person you replied to) debating which is worse 🙄
Mate , i live in a third world shithole where our thinly veiled dictator does as he pleases … if you live west of the Gdansk/Thessaloniki line please chill out , you have more rights than any of us here
As a parent, I’d say be politically active and don’t get into trouble. There are strategic uses of getting into trouble like mass civil disobedience but it takes a lot more of non troublesome kind of political activity before getting there.
It’s hard to say without knowing what country you’re in now. PRC is an undemocratic system to be embraced, escaped, or endured, but so are PRK, Iran, and a bunch others
OTOH, Canada or the USA were designed on the assumption that you’d agitate for the form of government. If you’re in either one, especially if you’re a citizen, you should definitely argue for the government you want.
The rest of the world is an interesting mix of “started undemocratic, embraced democracy” to “started democratic, embraced autocracy.”
It’s hard to say without knowing what country you’re in now.
I didn’t want to say because I’m not sure if this violates rule 6 of this community, but I’m currently in the USA as a Derivative Citizen from my mother’s Naturalization when I was under 18, which make me automatically a US Citizen. My father and my grandmother (who lives with us, in the USA) are PRC Citizens with legal US permanent residency.
But, to the Mods: This question is aimed at the general audience around the world, so it’s not intended to be “US Politics”.
I’m guessing maybe my mother didn’t want my father and other relatives in China to get in trouble? 🤔
But I don’t think they are looking at some anonymous Lemmy account, right?
My father and my grandmother (who lives with us, in the USA) are PRC Citizens with legal US permanent residency.
“Permanent” residency just means there is not currently a specific intent to revoke their status. It does not mean that they are immune from the immigration witch-hunt currently sweeping the US. More than a few “permanent residents” have been deported, most for simply pissing off someone empowered to use deportation in retaliation.
But I don’t think they are looking at some anonymous Lemmy account, right?
Your account is currently “anonymous”. But everything you post is online, and documented forever. What happens 6 months down the road, when your anonymity is pierced, and your name is permanently tied to your past acts? Have you said or done anything that would lead the head narcissist-in-charge to think you don’t like him?
My advice would be to focus your activist energy on long-term, local issues. Lobby for public transportation, school funding, homeless shelters, victim assistance, bike paths, free clinics, legal aid, Habitat for Humanity, or any of a thousand other worthy causes with broad, positive effects for the community. You don’t have to keep your head down, just stick it out where it will do the most good. We don’t need more evidence of the current regime’s malfeasance; we do need good people focused on what happens after they are out of office.
If there’re family in the PRC, they could certainly be on the hook if you’re spotted at events Beijing deems sensitive (things to do with Taiwan, Xinjiang, Tibet, the '89 Massacres, 66-77, etc.)
I’d also reckon that your family grew up either with direct experience of, or in the spectre of, the Cultural Revolution. The psychic damage of that can not be understated.
It’ s also that the social contract in China is very different to that of the US and Anglophone/European culture countries.
There are valid, logical, reasons for your family’s point of view. But it is also a viewpoint that is willing to tolerate a bad society in order for an adequate life personally.
There’s very little upside to attending a protest in the PRC, and a huge downside (cfr. 1986). The calculation is different in the US, obviously, although Trump is potentially changing this as well. They’re just using their past experience and they’re trying to keep you safe.
You just need to make a decision for yourself, are you willing to go to a protest now, potentially be imprisoned, deported to China, or do you just focus on getting a job and hoping it blows over. In a lot of ways it’s a prisoner’s dilemma: if you’re only a small group protesting, you’ll be crushed and nothing will change. If everyone’s protesting and organising some kind of resistance that can’t be ignored, you can win. The tricky part is making everyone come to the same conclusion at the same time to maximise chances of success.
Fuck them.
In the metaphorical way.
Don’t have sex with them.
Don’t listen to them, you’ll regret it. No you’re not in the wrong, they are, but everyone and their cousin will disagree because theyre cowards who don’t want to make their lives harder.
Imagine living 100 years in Germany and being worried about politics and your mom going “just keep your head down”.
Cowards. The lot of them.
By my estimation non-cowards are about 1/50.
i think they mean well but are misguided for the most part
I recently read an article by Bruce Levine who suggests that neurodivergent people are inherently anti-authoritian and the “Normie’s” basically persecute and medicate us to maintain their version of order (I’m taking great liberty with my summary).
Its a concept that really piqued my interest as I grew up in the height of the ADD/ADHD diagnosis period and discovered through experience that almost everyone around me who were also labeled as having “learning difficulties” also shared my same sentiments on politics and the world in general. I think its the reason I related so well to Punk Rock music and never understood why anyone would listen to mainstream music.
Anyway, here is that article I was reading. Pretty sure I stumbled on it through Lemmy:
Fucking (stupid|defeatist) . Any parent sayin shit like that should have their kids taken from them
You don’t realize how much you have to lose until you do. You could become homeless or deported if you get caught under this administration.
We’re reaching a point where the government is deporting green card users for protesting against Israel’s genocide. It won’t be long until US Citizens get the same treatment. And don’t think for a second that you’d be the only one punished. You could be dragging your entire family down with you.
So unless you’re willing to become jailed, homeless, or deported, id listen to your parents.
My generations parents? The lead chip eating boomers that helped fuck america? Pass.
Im ASD and diagnosed with major depression and on SSD.
That means I’m high up on the purge list anyway.
We’re all on that list. Even those of you who keep their head down. That’s the point of the Niemöller poem, especially since Trump’s shadowy masters are not trying to become dictator for life rather to bleed the federal general fund for a while before skedaddling to Switzerland or Liechtenstein.
You can’t lie low on this one as if it’s a protracted storm. At least I can’t.
Let me put it this way. If I was Tank Man I would have regretted that decision for the rest of my life while I was being tortured to death. Why would I do something that I would regret?
That is a fair assessment, and in a world where life is expected to be stable and tolerable, it is stongly tempting to keep your head down.
China may be that kind of stable, though from what I hear, they disappear people for benign offenses, and people have to manage their social rating. Not easy to do when you’re, say, gay, or neurodivergent, or Uyghur. I can’t help but wonder if the acceptable norm is shrinking, and the list of undesirables is growing.
Here in the states, it already is growing. And unless you’re doing sexual favors for a billionaire or are indispensable to a billionaire, you’re on the purge list, just further down than homeless folk and Latins.
Granted you might rather just be summarily executed than tortured. I personally am terrified by the marks on the interior walls of the Auschwitz death camp genocide chambers where the victims were clawing as they died. In the current path of least resistance, I’ll be making those marks one day, or rather will perish from malnutrition in CECOT.
If I have to go out suffering, I’d rather I made a difference. If I lie low, I might as well commit suicide, which I’ve actually considered except that would cause harm to others connected to me.
It’ll also suck for them when ICE comes for me and my neighbors are silent.
what’s SSD?
Social Security Disability.
One of the things Musk is trying to kill because I am allegedly useless.
Musk is about to learn there are practical reasons to assure the wellbeing of non-workers, including NEETs.
We often sre useful, just in ways not recognized by pure transactionalists and capitalists. And those uses can and do turn renegade.
Oh, and yes I agree with you.
Initially I though what solid state disk has to do with ADS.
Keeping your head down just ensures they come for you a little later.
