As the title states I am confused on this matter. The way I see it, the USA has a two party system and in the next few weeks they’re either going to have Trump or Harris as president, come inauguration day. With this in mind doesn’t it make sense to vote for the person least likely to escalate the situation even more.

Giving your vote to an independent or worse not voting at all, just gives more of a chance for Trump to win the election and then who knows what crazy stuff he will allow, or encourage, Israel to get away with.

I really don’t get the logic. As sure nobody wants to vote for a party allowing these heinous crimes to be committed, but given you’re getting one of them shouldn’t you be voting for the one that will be the least horrible of the two.

Please don’t come at me with pro-Israeli rhetoric as this isn’t the post for that, I’m asking about why people would make such choices and I’m not up for debate on the Middle East, on this post, you can DM me for that.

Edit: Bedtime here now so will respond to incoming comments in the morning, love starting the day with an inbox full 😊.

Edit 2: This blew up, it’s a little overwhelming right now but I do intent on replying to everybody that took the time to comment. Just need to get in the right headspace.

  • @gramophone_mind@lemmy.mlSvenska
    16•27 days ago

    To push her to change her stance… you only own your vote. That’s the only leverage. She is the reason they aren’t voting for her.

    • Victor
      1•27 days ago

      That logic should apply to Trump as well. 🤷‍♂️

      • @gramophone_mind@lemmy.mlSvenska
        10•27 days ago

        I mean it does doesn’t it? Trump supports can also threaten not to vote for him if he continues bad policies.

        But we are talking about Harris supporters here. If Americans don’t even have a real vote with real value then what would stop Harris or Trump policies that will eventually render everyone in Gaza dead? If you can’t even speak to politicians with your own vote and if they don’t even value your vote, then how are we going to achieve anything?

        Harris is the one losing votes for her shitty policy. It’s not the fault of the voter. It’s the fault of the candidate.

        • Victor
          0•27 days ago

          You’re absolutely right, in an ideal situation.

          But as you also said, “we are talking about Harris supporters here”, so my original comment is kind of irrelevant to the topic of the post, probably. I’ll stand down in this context. 😁

      • OBJECTION!
        13•27 days ago

        Correct! That’s a great reason not to vote for either of them.

        • @gramophone_mind@lemmy.mlSvenska
          4•27 days ago

          Actually yes, and that may one day even break the deadlock American politicians put onto their failed two party system.

        • Victor
          1•27 days ago

          Then again, pragmatically, voting for the lesser evil of the two could make a big difference when voting for another candidate or not at all could have zero effect. ☹️

          • @gramophone_mind@lemmy.mlSvenska
            10•27 days ago

            Pragmatically, Harris losing votes should make her understand the need to not support a genocide. But no, we have to lay the burden on everyone else but her.

            • Victor
              -2•27 days ago

              Or of curiosity, what’s Trump’s stance on the genocide? Isn’t he equally pro/complacent? Or has he voiced his discontent with Israel in any way?

                • Victor
                  1•27 days ago

                  Are you really asking out of curiosity? The thread title is about not voting for Harris.

                  Yes, I am. I’m not a supporter of either one. I’m in northern Europe.

              • OBJECTION!
                7•27 days ago

                What does that have to with anything? No one’s claiming that Trump would be good on Palestine or that you should vote for him, it’s a whataboutism.

                • Victor
                  -2•27 days ago

                  Like I said, I’m asking out of curiosity, not to make a point, so this is not whataboutism. 👍 I’m a European citizen so I can’t influence anything, I’m just trying to learn here.

                  • OBJECTION!
                    6•27 days ago

                    Then let me provide some context. Trump and Harris are both hawks who fully and unconditionally support arming Israel and slaughtering people in the Middle East. The same was true in 2020, when it Biden v Trump, in 2016, when it was Clinton v Trump, in 2012 when it was Obama v Romney, in 2008 when it was Obama v McCain, in 2004 when it was Kerry v Bush, and arguably even in 2000 when it was Gore v Bush

                    Those of us who are doves have been waiting for over 20 years for a candidate who isn’t an extremist hawk who wants to commit mass slaughter on the other side of the world, where it can safely be kept out of sight and out of mind. Neither party has ever delivered on that. The military-industrial complex is extremely large and extremely lucrative for politicians, and it has only gotten larger and more influential under Biden - as well as being much more deadly than ever, with what’s happening in Gaza.

                    We’ll never just be handed a choice to get in the way of that system, but it absolutely must end. The only ways of accomplishing that are 1) forcing politicians to oppose it by making our votes conditional on that issue, or 2) building our own party from the ground up that’s committed to opposing it. Otherwise we will keep seeking out new conflicts until we end up kicking off WWIII, and ofc in the meantime it will be impossible to fix the numerous crippling domestic issues we’re facing because so much of our money is tied up in bombs.