A new messaging app is in development, and the project is described as “an open source WhatsApp for the Fediverse.”
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something something 15 competing standards
unfortunately matrix sucks revolt isn’t federated and irc is outdated so
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Unless we’re talking just about replicating Instagram-like DMs
I think that’s exactly the niche this intends to fill. This is facebook messenger for the fediverse.
I just learned about Matrix recently. Seems like something that’d be good. What sucks about it?
I personally really like Matrix, but there are a few outstanding complaints about it. The biggest one is that the reference implementation everyone uses by default is known to be bloated and slow, and poor at scaling. Server admins have had a huge challenge of supporting a large amount of data for things like room history, which in the past required propagation to every server hosting every participant. The protocol itself has been described by some developers as overtly complex.
Some of this seems to be improving, particularly with development of a Go-based backend implementation, Dendrite.
Good to know. I signed up for beeper.com which seems cool. I am a bit concerned about data collection and privacy, so I’m trying to set up my own instance.
@deadsuperhero
> the reference implementation everyone uses by default is known to be bloated and slow, and poor at scalingThis doesn’t seem to stop the fediverse growing (*cough* Mastodon *cough*).
@deadsuperhero
> development of a Go-based backend implementation, DendriteAlso Rust-based homeserver implementations like Construct and Conduit. Both of which are usable, although missing a few nice-to-have added features. Eg Conduit is still working on;
“E2EE emoji comparison over federation (E2EE chat works)… Outgoing read receipts, typing, presence over federation”
And if dendrite fail, we wait for the rust-based backend implementation. :)
It’s funny. When I was typing my original response, I was under the impression that Dendrite was Rust-based! 😂 I’m really glad I checked before posting!
Fun fact. I didn’t made a joke. There is a rust based version in alpha state. But I don’t remember it’s codename.
Edit: okay, it has no codename:
Oh, I thought that was just a client SDK. Is it an actual server backend?
I’m not even close to an expert, but from what I have heard, matrix collects quite a bit of metadata depending on the server you are using/federating with.
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@smileyhead
> But noone figured out how to prevent that in federated systemsYou’ve basically got a choice been a centralised service where metadata can be limited but E2EE is mostly pointless (you have to trust the service operators’ E2EE deployment), or a decentralised network where E2EE is reliable, but it’s harder to limit metadata.
Which one is best depends on the situation/ threat model.
Yeah, I have been concerned about that. Looking into self-hosting matrix.
Besides the main implementation synapse being slow, the new implementation dendrite is unfinished but progressing.
But technical standards aside, the hassle of managing encryption keys is too buggy and confusing IMO. That’ll deter most people I feel.
I want it to be great but it just isn’t there yet.
IRC is only “outdated” if you make it so by using outdated networks like libera.chat that refuse to implement the newer standards that have been available for years.
XMPP is fantastic, but I feel as though it suffers from half-baked clients, most of which are a decade old and look the part.
I’d really love to see a “modern” WhatsApp-like take on an XMPP messenger, but I haven’t found any. Admittedly, I haven’t looked in some time.
@deadsuperhero
> I’d really love to see a “modern” WhatsApp-like take on an XMPP messenger, but I haven’t found anyHave you looked at @snikket_im ?
@deadsuperhero
I agree, I use xmpp all the time, but the clients are really underwhelming… Not sure how it’s so complicated to give them a facelift to update them while keeping the existing functionality. This reminds me of the debates about the #blender ui in the past, where gray beards argued that the interface was just fine…aesthetics matter;)
@poVoqSame with K9. But they did finally a really good facelift.
Its one of the best apps actually. Swipe gestures, openpgp, material you (?).
Give it another look. The popular Android client Conversations is getting an UI overhaul right now (unreleased), Monal for iOS has also improved a lot, and this is a promising looking take on a Telegram like UI: https://moxxy.org/
Dino and Gajim also improved a lot on the desktop side. Overall there is some renewed interest by client developers and the Jabber federation is growing again I think.
That’s really great news! I’ll look into those. 😁
For some weird reason many people just plain ignore the existance of XMPP when they’re discussing decentralized protocols. Is it because Matrix outshadowed it?
There is this wierd meme that IRC is “outdated” and XMPP is “dead”, both of which is completely untrue, but somehow the tech-bro hivemind continues to spout this nonsense when ever the topic comes up.
Thank you, Ive seen this repeatedly and now Ive been better informed.
AFAIK the most complained about thing with xmpp is that there are so many standards and every server isn’t guaranteed to implement them. That and just being old which is no curse but people take that as a negative sometimes.
It’s honestly pretty good IMO.
Feels like Jabber has been around for a long time. If I’m not mistaken I remember my buddy pimping it as an AIM alternative back in the Napster/mp3 days.
