On the internet, it is common to call a guy a misogynist, but what is the exact meaning of misogynist? Is it 1. A guy who hates women? Or 2. a guy who thinks men are superior. Or 3. A guy who believes in women should follow traditional norms like cooking.
I think any of those three could be called misogynist. It’s a pretty flexible term. It just means someone who is prejudiced against women.
Definitely 1. and 2., imho also 3.
These aren’t different things. If you “hate” women, you think little of them. You think you’re better than them. You think they’re dumb baby machines that belong in the kitchen.
If you do #2 or #3, you also do #1 even if you don’t think you do.
deleted by creator
All wives in all relationships ever? So does that mean your dad thinks all men live in filth? Do gay men all unanimously hire house cleaners? Are gay women the only people he thinks deserve equitable labor division in the home?
That’s a funny kind of “respect”. I think most people share a different definition of it.
He never said that men live in filth, but he said that women are better homemakers than men
Daddy was wrong.
Point is not about whether he is wrong or right
But, for the record, he is wrong.
I know
my father respects women he just thinks his wife should do all of the house work. [Paraphrased]
I would venture to say that if your father thinks his wife should do all the house work because she is a woman, then that is, in fact, misogyny (he is not actually respecting her in this case).
If he thinks she should do all the housework because they’ve talked and she really is happier in the role of homemaker and has chosen that as her life path while he has chosen to work a job that pays well enough to enable that, well then in that case it isn’t necessarily misogyny. But that is just about the only case in which it isn’t, including if she accepted being the homemaker but didn’t or wouldn’t have chosen it over a career if that seemed more feasible.
deleted by creator
Can you explain how to expect a wife to do housework is hate for women. I know both are wrong but still those are two different things
Because the only thing that makes a wife different from a husband is the fact that she’s a woman. There is nothing inherently “womanly” or “wifely” about housework, and expecting her to do it all must involve thinking there is: an unjustified prejudice exclusively reserved for women. I.e. misogyny.
I think you are confusing gender roles with misogyny
I think you are confusing gender roles with misogyny
When gender roles put an undue and unwanted burden on women, when they become a rule, that is misogyny. If they were putting an extra, unwanted burden on men it would be misandry, but that is a much less used term simply because it’s so much less prevalent.
he thinks wife should do all the house work
my father always respects women
No he doesn’t…
How
he thinks wife should do all the house work
How is that hate
Who said hate? What I said is that it’s a lack of respect
But he respects women
removed by mod
Exactly
Or how about, rather than your narrow, specific 3 definitions, a fourth thing, such as how it’s phrased in the wiki:
Misogyny is hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. It is a form of sexism that can keep women at a lower social status than men.
The emphasis there is why you’re being called names on the internet. If you’re advocating systems or societal norms of gender oppression, you’re being misogynist. This remains true even if you’re not doing it intentionally.
The world we live in is deeply patriarchal, so it can be hard to see these problems, because the views and opinions you’ve got are just “normal”. Something being the norm doesn’t mean it isn’t oppressive, and having an opinion doesn’t mean you shouldn’t consider the impacts of that opinion.
Generally, if someone calls you a misogynist, and you go “bUt I rEsPeCt wOmEn”, you might want to take a little time to figure out where it’s coming from. It can certainly be real without fitting in your 3 tidy little self-serving definitions.
I’ll also point out that you can replace nearly every instance of misogyny in this thread with racism, and replace women with black, and it would be the same discussion. Or you could swap misogyny/women with misandry/men. Oppression is oppression, no matter who holds the power.
deleted by creator
This is such a great explanation, thanks for taking the time to write it all out.
1 and 2 for sure. 3 if he believes this for all women to be true. Not so much if he only wishes his partner to be traditional. This however needs to be communicated and also wished by the to be house wife. Not so hard really. We are all humans with the same rights, no matter how we look down there or what hormons we got flowing through our veins. Just as we want respect and freedom we need to grant that to those around us. Or face judgement by our peers.
Your #1 is the etymological meaning of the word. For precise usage, there should be at least some element of #2, lest you inadvertently misclassify a misanthrope who hates everybody. That’s assuming you’re using a gender-inclusive sense of the word ‘guy’; anyone can be a misogynist.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
It’s only common if you are expressing misogynistic viewpoints and cruising around places where those viewpoints are welcome. I spent years on reddit and only saw it where it was appropriately calling out the behavior.
I never saw that on Reddit, but then I never did filter by controversial.
Points two and three are forms of point one… if you think you’re superior to a class of humans then you hate those humans. If you think some people should do something because of the color of their skin or gender then you hate them… you’re denying them the same freedom to act that you enjoy.
not to justify bad behavior, but your points are rather off base. Thinking you’re superior to something doesn’t mean you hate it…One might consider themselves superior to plants and not hate them. One might consider Ford superior to Chevy and not hate Chevy. A woman can be misogynistic and consider males superior without hating females. Just because the 2 other points often come along for the ride doesn’t mean they are part of the definition and shouldn’t be asked.
I think hate, as a word, can mean what the parent comment used it for, though I wouldn’t say that’s the sense I get when I hear it. It’s the meaning in the phrase “hate group” though, which seems pretty relevant.
Look i don’t think hate is required for misogony but this point you are making would mean that nearly every human being hates all animals. Just ask people, they LOVE animals. And also to eat them because we believe us to be superior.
There’s a sort of misogynistic that thinks women are superior to men (and I assume that’s the reason they “hate” women). Spanish director Luis Garcia Berlanga would an example.
Someone who hates or oppresses women. It’s an aggressive form of sexism.
Women can have internalized misogyny, as well, it’s not just men.
All 3 of those are misogynistic view points.
Arguably, all three.
It’s not the easiest concept to define. Kate Mann defines it as “the law enforcement branch of the patriarchy”. It’s not the philosophical justification of sexist beliefs, it’s the (often violent) enforcement of them.
I think it can boil down to not recognizing the personhood of women. That the infinite complexity that can come from a rich tapestry woven of culture, personality, ability, interests and experiences can be shoved into a narrow and limited role. A misogynist will only see a sex doll, or a maid, or a baby making machine etc, and then judge a woman’s worth based on how well they fit in that role. If a woman doesn’t perform the roles that person expects or desires then they get angry and hateful that this other human being didn’t meet those unreasonable expectations of them.
Misogynists might not think they hate women, just that a woman doesn’t “belong” working in a machine shop. They might not consciously think men are superior, but they see certain tasks associated with women (cleaning, care work, teaching) as low value, undesirable or less worthy of respect. They might not actively choose how to divide domestic tasks, but will say that women are “naturally” better at them. And just to be clear, plenty of women are misogynists too.
Not being a misogynist involves seeing women as equally valid and worthy humans on the same bases you would judge any other person (IE, a man).
Since he decided to delete a bunch of his comments and this comment thread can’t be seen…
Since he decided to delete a bunch of his comments and this comment thread can’t be seen…
I’m a little confused. I see you accusing OP of saying things against women and then you go on to call him a slur that is specifically offensive to women, but none of those comments in the picture are the ones you’re accusing OP of saying.
Either I’m missing something, or there is quite the irony here.
Edit: Just read OP’s comment history, and yeah, seems to be a jerk and a misogynist. I still think your choice to call him a c*nt was a bit ironic in context though.
The United States is the only country I know of in which that insult is considered misogynistic, and even then only when it is directed toward a woman. OP is not a woman, and, even though I reside in the United States, I do not consider myself an American. Regarding its offensiveness to women, yes, some women do consider it offensive. If any of them are reading this, then they can go ahead and be offended if they wish, that is their right. But the C-word is not misogynistic. Misogyny involves tools of gendered oppression, the way the N-word has long been a tool of racist oppression. The C-word has never had that sort of power.
If I had called him a “pussy”, then that is something different because it implies cowardice, as though people who own one are cowards. If I had accused him of having a small penis, then that would have been body-shaming and uncool. But cunt? Dick? Asshole? They are just words indicating someone is a jerk, which OP most certainly is.
I have done a lot…like, a lot of work on the vocabulary I employ. I have nothing but feminist men, women, and enbies in my circle, and we all hold each other accountable for the language we use. We shun ableist terms (“lame”, “crazy”), sex-shaming (“slut”), poverty-shaming (“white-trash”, “ghetto”), and a whole host of other very common terms in modern parlance. And, while a couple women I’ve known have had a distaste for the word “cunt”, they just didn’t like the way it sounded.
All this being said, thank you for what you do by trying to hold me accountable for the language I use.
Just point out one misogynist comment and I will delete my account
