I’ve been wondering for a bit why during the time the Democrats controlled the legislature, executive, and judicial branches during Obama’s first term in 2008 more wasn’t accomplished. Shouldn’t that have been the opportunity to make Row V Way law and fix the electoral college? I understand the recession was going on but outside of Obamacare getting passed which didnt go far enough it seems like they didn’t really do much with all that power. Are there other important accomplishments from this time that didn’t get the news they deserved? It seems like the voters have done their job in the past to elect people to fix things and yet we are still here begging people to vote to fix issues like abortion rights.
Because in a two party system both parties are just sides of the same coin.
In short, they didn’t want to. The reality is they are all moderate republicans, which in itself is an oxymoron. Don’t believe me, here is Obama saying just that; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJIlZxHfclc Now imagine you somehow get total control of all braches, and to top it off 3 weeks filibuster proof. You can do anything, but you don’t really want change. What do you do? Well implement RomneyCare, call it ObamaCare and leave out the public option, which will ensure it be a giveaway to big pharma. Seems good at first glance, but leaving out the public option really killed it, as they intended.
Because while “Democrats” controlled everything, liberals didn’t. It’s extremely likely that if we get another chance at this the same thing will happen - progressive democrats will push for voting reform and better social safety nets while conservative democrats will block those efforts.
We need to make sure to primary shitty democrats.
Post-2016 politics is a different animal.
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Mitch “Disassociating is my hobby” McConnel
Routine abuse of the filibuster rules by Republicans was a big part of it. Not the only reason, but a fairly major one as I recall.
And while I am a Democrat and I vote that way, I very readily admit the Democrats often bring a book to a gun fight when it comes to politics. They have good intentions but then they get steamrollered on things like SCOTUS appointments…
The current state of US politics is a direct consequence of Mitch McConnell’s campaign of obstruction and spin. When we go to civil war in November and your fellow Americans are bleeding out in the streets because we wouldn’t get on board with support for Zionist genocide, think of him.
Though if I recall correctly, filibuster rule can be removed with 51% majority but obviously Democrats are too nice to remove that.
While I disagree with it, there is a valid argument that getting rid of the filibuster would become an absolute disaster once Republicans gain the majority.
Less nice, more realizing that would remove their ability to stop the Republicans when the political winds inevitability shift the other way
Couldn’t the republicans just do the same thing and remove it when they get a 51% majority
I would imagine its a case of mutually assured destruction. Neither wants to repeal it because they know once they do, they open up Pandora’s box and Congress will be even more of a disaster than it currently is
Right, which is why I’ve been saying that the Democrats should restore the filibuster. What they have now is not a filibuster, in practice, it’s more akin to an administrative hold. One Senator indicates an intent to filibuster via email, and they move on to other business.
Make 'em do it. Pick a popular issue, and lean into it. Make the Republicans actually stand up there at the podium and talk for hours. Get them on camera on the news every night as obstructionists, blocking the will of the people. Yes, it will waste Senate session time; that’s a perfect opportunity for all of the Democrats to roast them non-stop to reporters. It’ll be painful for a while, but at least has a chance of breaking the log jam. (And if the GQP doesn’t take the bait, hey, popular thing gets passed!)
Filibustering is dumb and it shouldn’t exist - if we want the ability for a narrow minority to block law making we should just increase the threshold to pass laws - we shouldn’t allow a weird procedural rule to block discussion of a law whether through talking a long time or just doing so by email.
Oh did Democrats stop the Republicans when the winds shifted?
Oh no they didn’t. They went along with them.
Oh did Democrats stop the Republicans when the winds shifted?
Oh no they didn’t. They went along with them.
What the hell are you talking about? Your comment is entirely divorced from reality. There were 175 cloture votes to break a filibuster on nominees during the Obama administration and 314 during Trump. Nearly doubled in half the time.
When Schumer was minority leader, he vigorously used the filibuster to do just that. Under his leadership, Democrats used the filibuster to block funding for construction of Trump’s border wall in 2019. They used it not once, but twice to impede passage of the Cares Act — forcing Republicans to agree to changes including a $600 weekly federal unemployment supplement. They used it in September and October to stop Republicans from passing further coronavirus relief before the November election. They used it to halt Sen. Tim Scott’s (R-S.C.) police reform legislation so Republicans could not claim credit for forging a bipartisan response to the concerns of racial justice protesters. They used it to block legislation to force “sanctuary cities” to cooperate with federal officials, and to stop a prohibition on taxpayer funding of abortion, bans on abortions once the unborn child is capable of feeling pain, and protections for the lives of babies born alive after botched abortions. - Washington Post
Crickets from the peanut gallery🤣
It’s an easy rotating villain they can pull out at their convenience
Democrats have been playing by the rules and norms for far too long. Norms only matter if both teams follow them. Same thing with the rules. If Republicans will change the rules so that they win Democrats have to follow suit or make it illegal. When one side plays dirty, the other can either play dirty or lose. Moral high ground gains us nothing.
“Things are kinda shitty so we should make them all the way shitty” isn’t the argument you think it is.
The main difference is:
Republicans do stuff then Democrats challenge it thru the courts.
Dems challenge their own stuff first, and if they think it’s right after a year or two, they start talking about if they should do it. And Republicans will still challenge it thru the courts.
You can argue over which path is morally the right one.
But no one has a legitimate argument that says republicans aren’t more effective.
They’re skipping steps that take us years to complete.
I mean, Biden talked about all types of shit he would do when elected. And his first day he said he’d start looking into if he was allowed to do any of it.
trump ain’t waiting to ask anyone if he can do something. He’s just going to do shit, and we’re going to have to try and fight a bunch of battles at once, all the while his policies are in effect.
It’s not that they’re fighting dirty and we’re fighting clean.
It’s that when the gun goes off to start the race, we start stretching so we won’t cramp up.
Doesn’t matter how slow Republicans are if we give them a 10 minute head start on a 100m sprint.
trump ain’t waiting to ask anyone if he can do something. He’s just going to do shit, and we’re going to have to try and fight a bunch of battles at once, all the while his policies are in effect.
That IS fighting dirty
This is it. Trump didn’t give a flying shit at all if anything he did was legal, he just went for it, and it worked.
That’s not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.
-Karl Rove
They know this is how it works and they abuse it freely and are open about what they’re doing. Democrats are fucking pussies in the face of it.
Turd Blossom is an evil little pigman but he’s not stupid and he’s not wrong. There’s too much discussion and not enough action from the left side of the aisle.
This is it. Trump didn’t give a flying shit at all if anything he did was legal, he just went for it, and it worked.
The law is slow, but powerful.
Honestly, it’s not that they bring a book to a gunfight.
It’s that they keep bringing a book to a gunfight, and expect a different result every time.
It’s almost like they’re not really trying
No, it’s like the base expects perfection at every turn and it just isn’t possible. A Republican fucks up and people rally to him, a Dem fucks up and they are expected to resign or recuse or whatever. The D always has to be the bigger person and our “big tent” is full of about 50 issues that can’t sit the hell down for two minutes to let something get done.
It’s a bunch of whiny little bitch kids that won’t punch for the throat because precedent and social issue du jour. What is really necessary is to put on some teeth kicking shoes and step up to the plate, but my other compatriot Dems just don’t allow that sort of behavior. They go low and we should start kicking… But we don’t.
I hear you, and I completely agree with your reasons WHY we can’t compete, but at the same time, if and when we resort to lies and cheating, are we still the good guys or just more bad guys with a different color flag?
Most of the Republican party thinks they ARE the good guys. They are protecting the rest of us from the evils of an oppressive gubment and/or a vengeful God.
Obviously, you and I don’t agree with that, but I feel more confident that I’m on the right side knowing that we’re at least playing by the rules.
But when playing by the rules guarantees that you’ll lose (perhaps permanently) because the other guy’s blatantly cheating… does that matter?
To borrow a rather melodramatic quote:
Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer.
I get your point. I really do. But when the fight is existential, the constraints are radically different.
Let’s put it another way: if this next election was a D20, it’s like generating crit fails on 9+D4, because the other team has been fucking with the rules behind our backs. And a crit fail means you have a 3/D4 chance of not being allowed to roll any dice ever again.
In plain English: the structure of our electoral system means that the bar for success of one team is quantitatively lower than their opponents, and due to the extreme nature of the party that’s benefiting from that unbalanced system (Republicans), it’s very possible they’ll stop allowing any remotely fair elections to occur.
I don’t think it has to be lies and cheating, but there’s a pre-emptive reaction on the left of “we can’t do that, because what happens when the shoe is on the other foot?”. But then what happens? Those issues are abused anyway on the right.
IMO the first order of business ought to have been pack the courts, push the limits of gerrymandering, and anything else that guarantees easy wins until there’s a lawsuit that leads to legislation that codifies the rules for bad faith situations in law.
Basically force the grey out of grey areas and ride the easy wins. The slack in the system is the main thing that is being constantly abused. Unfortunately the electorate on our side is to interested making politicians “earn the vote” by chasing every car on the street and never catching any of them.
Democrats had the ability to change procedural rules and prevent filibustering - they chose not to.
Unfortunately, the lack of progress when Dems controlled all three branches is because conservative democrats didn’t want that progress. While Democrats controlled all three branches liberals did not.
We need to understand that there’s a strong conservative presence in the DNC or else we’ll be blindsided by this issue again. The lack of progress was on Democrats - we can’t shift the blame to Republicans (though they’re definitely more shitty).
One of things that annoys me most is people on the Left who act like the overwhelming majority of people in the country agree with them.
According to the best estimate I’ve seen, 44% of the people “somewhat agree” with Socialism, and about 6% are “strongly” in favor of Socialism.
I’m not certain what your point is - we’re not talking about socialism here and that word is a misunderstood flashpoint to Americans. If you ask Americans if they want to live in a socialist country I wouldn’t be surprised if only 6% said yes - but when you describe Scandinavian democratic socialism purely by stating policy stances it tends to be pretty popular.
And yet, Obamacare barely passed and Trump managed to pass a huge tax cut for the rich.
Look how many people were outraged when AOC wore a dress that said ‘Tax The Rich.’
I wish I was in the majority, but I know I’m not.
This falsehood has been a right-wing talking point all the way back since 2013.
When Obama had “Total Control” of Congress
Lies are easy to get away with if they are repeated often enough and given voice by many different people. Repeat a lie often enough and that lie often becomes conventional wisdom. Repeating a lie doesn’t change the lie into the truth, it changes the people hearing the repeated lie. They begin to accept the lie as truth. One huge example: ‘Iraq has WMD.’
…
The truth…then…is this: Democrats had “total control” of the House of Representatives from 2009-2011, 2 full years. Democrats, and therefore, Obama, had “total control” of the Senate from September 24, 2009 until February 4, 2010. A grand total of 4 months.
Did President Obama have “total control” of Congress? Yes, for 4 entire months. And it was during that very small time window that Obamacare was passed in the Senate with 60 all-Democratic votes.
Did President Obama have "total control’ of Congress during his first two years as president? Absolutely not and any assertions to the contrary…as you can plainly see in the above chronology…is a lie.
EDIT:
This is the archive of the original chronology link.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130307230207/http://www.thepragmaticpundit.com:80/2011/12/obama-did-not-control-congress-for-two.htmlThe question still stands, this just reframes it. He had a majority, just not a filibusterer proof one, so why are the Republicans so willing to remove the filibusterer when it gets in there way and the Democrats not?
“Why is the political party that actively wants to destroy our institutions ok with destroying our institutions?”
That’s your question, reframed.
If you want a real answer, it’s because Roe v. Wade “was” settled law & the Democrats are a “big tent” party with a lot of disparate views that always don’t mesh together. They should be 3 parties working as a collation, but our stupid FPtP election system won’t allow that.
Following that, note which party has made RCV illegal in 5 states.
“They go low, we go high.” Translated “they break the rules and try to overthrow the government, we roll over and beg for more.”
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You can’t ‘fix’ the electoral College. It’s in the Constitution and will never be overturned because getting rid of it means that the small states lose a lot of power. As for the rest, Obama was trying to be a Left Center leader, not a radical Leftist.
If only we could, idk, amend the constitution. And small states having the power to make a more popular voted candidate lose is fucking ridiculous. Also something like 80% of Americans votes will basically be ignored because they don’t live in closely divided states. So fuck the electoral college.
Because Democrats aren’t progressives, and maintaining the status quo is good for them. They get easy paychecks from lobby groups, and don’t have to fight too hard for anything. And if something bad happens, like Roe v. Wade, they can use it as fodder to get reelected. It’s not really in their best interests to work on making things better, at least from a personal financial standpoint.
American politicians mostly argue over issues as a way to earn votes. It’s like the story of the young priest.
Every week he listens to the old priest talk about the church’s roof and how badly it needs repairs and has been for years. He asks the congregation to give generously as the quotes to repair it have been quite high. The young priest decides to call around and eventually finds a religious contractor who agrees to repair the roof at a steep discount! The young priest walks into church one morning to see the old priest outside in shock that the roof has been fixed. The young priest proudly explains how he was finally able to fix the bad roof that had been a pain for years. The old priest says “You idiot! Now how will I get people to donate!?”
Like it or not, the United States are of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations.
Now I totally disagree with Republicans on almost everything especially since 2014 but one thing I like about them is, how to pass the actual laws, and how to put justices in supreme court.
No matter how wrong are they, or who paid (directly or indirectly) to pass the laws… when they have majority, they just steamrolls.
Democrats on the other hand are just talks.
Edit: Though, on a larger scale, I think Democracy is a failed experiment. But that’s entirely a different debate.
Look at just one example:
In Europe, Apple was told accept outside payments. Apple made mockery of the wish of the people they are making money from… and made it more expensive to use outside payment system.
Now take a guess, if it was China asked Apple to implement something serious… do you think Apple would be able to make mockery of Chinese government and still survive in China?
because those are conservative democrats who thought there was still a sensible republican party “to work with”
most of Obamas “accomplishments” were republican sourced ideas.
the democrats haven’t acted progressively in many decades. Obama was a lame duck from day 1
