I think I’ve settled on the latter. Disagreement is maybe best communicated by the absence of an upvote? And downvotes work best when they signal something that is just off base, and while not reportable, is not appreciated at a broad cultural level.
I think wrong information and rudeness should get downvoted, nothing more.
I only downvote hateful stuff or obvious bots and spam. The same as I do on anything with upvotes and downvotes.
On Reddit, up/down was intended to be used as relevant or not relevant. Then Facebook came around with the Like button and changed the standard.
Coming from the perspective of Digg, Reddit was about sharing external content and giving something an upvote was used to promote that content while a downvote was used to discourage that content from being seen. It was democratic in that the users were relied on for ranking posts without the need for moderators having to establish rules and remove things.
Then Reddit employed an algorithm and most people visit Popular and All making it a shitstorm of irrelevance. People upvote stuff they like that has absolutely no reason to be posted in a sub. Never mind everything that’s gone on with Reddit in recent months, it’s users’ inability to properly use the upvote / downvote buttons that has caused the site to become absolute trash.
Here, we have the added tool of the Star to indicate that we like something while at the same time downvoting it because it’s not relevant to the sub. The problem is that the vast majority of people don’t want to think about or put any effort into anything. At this point, anything that looks like a thumbs up is getting selected because they like it.
If you disagree with someone, you shouldn’t do anything unless you have something to say. Engage with them in conversation and express your point of view - this is “social media”. If others feel your point is relevant you should get an upvote; if you’re off topic you should get a downvote.
Reading over the other comments here, I think most people are expressing a similar perspective. It’s about rankings, not feelings.
Somewhat vague but I think of it as “this doesn’t belong here.” It seems to be the most fitting - something could not belong because it’s irrelevant, or because it’s rude, or because nobody wants to see it. All up to interpretation, I suppose, but better that than a hard rule than I either don’t feel good about sometimes or that prevents me from downvoting things that probably should be downvoted but don’t explicitly break that rule.
neither… it should be an indication of how much its related to the topic at hand…
Downvotes = disabled on my instance
Haha yep.
And beehaw too. Wonder how many others.
I feel like this is a good approach. Honestly an invisible voting system might be better cause how many up or down votes something has prevents others from fully forming their own opinion.
i will downvote anythong that is false, misleading, doesn’t contribute to the conversation or classic reddit humor adding to the same joke
The only times I’ve really been downvoting is if someone is giving out completely incorrect information, like in a support thread or something, and confusing matters. It’s not a personal judgement or anything, just trying to keep things clear for the person asking the question.
If I disagree with a comment, well no biggie. Sometimes it’s worth discussing like adults and sometimes it’s just a subjective opinion. If it’s offensive, I’ll report it and block the user.
Don’t feel bad. I down vote things I don’t want to see. Others much want to see that but I am putting my 2cents in.
This isn’t reddit getting downvoted won’t mean you can only post every 10mins. You can post as much as you want
I think voting based on quality of content (and NOT whether you agree with it) is the best approach for healthy discussions. If somebody is a low effort troll, then for sure downvote (and maybe even consider reporting).
OTOH, if somebody makes a well written and thoughtful post about why Totoro is the best Ghibli movie ever, and meanwhile you think Totoro is not even in their top 3, then I would still recommend NOT downvoting 😃
The problem is that there’s no way to enforce this in practice. All of these conversations about voting culture, with examples and pontificating always just come off as “everyone who drives slower than me is a grandpa, everyone who drives faster than me is a lunatic.”
Downvotes will always be an “I disagree” button no matter what anyone wants or thinks.
Most people on Lemmy right now are not using them in that way. As we grow, misuse of downvotes will almost certainly become more common, but right now people are self-policing their behavior for the most part
Those of us on kbin can see who up/downvotes. I’ve noticed, anecdotally, that once this became more wildly known, there have been fewer downvotes that mean “I disagree”, with them mostly being used on troll posts or obviously bigoted posts.
I’m aware of that and I like that behavior.
I’m also wary of potential downsides though. I think in smaller communities it could be a problem because people might start fights with each other when they check who downvoted them. But I’m not sure, at least now we have a good test environment on kbin, and so far it seems to be beneficial based on what you’re saying.
I think it’s overall good. A vote is no longer an anonymous action-- it’s personal, just like leaving a comment supporting or disagreeing would be. While I don’t think it would ever be appropriate to harass a person because they up/down voted something, I do think people should have to make the mental calculation about whether they’re willing to have any specific up or down vote available for anyone to see.
I think it’s done more good than harm and don’t want to see them anonymized again… but I do have to say I’ve found myself withholding a downvote that I think was completely justifiable and deserved because I didn’t want to be the first and only one and get shit for it.
This is kind of why, I feel like it is a bad thing. People can’t vote normally or are afraid to do so in a way.
Some won’t use the vote system to avoid possible trouble (arguments, downvoting back etc).
I personally have started to care way less about the upvote and downvote stuff. Reddit made it clear to me that it means nothing.
It just internet points and if something goes wrong, it’s all gone anyway.
I guarantee it won’t be long before communities begin using this information.
Remember on Reddit how many subs would prematurely ban any accounts that participated in subs they disliked? That was entirely driven by the users, not the platform. Imagine if they had your voting information too.
I predict we’ll start seeing throwaway accounts for voting, to disassociate your voting records from your posting persona.
Totally agree. I’m just trying to brainstorm possible issues that may crop up in the future. Many times, the solution to a problem simply introduces a different problem.
Although as I’m considering it, the ease of making alts on this platform mitigates any potential issues, because the whole thing can be sidestepped by downvoting with an alt.
Overall, probably couldn’t hurt to bring that functionality to Lemmy and see how it goes.
When I joined I rarely saw any down votes. Sadly this already got worse, depending where you are.
This is why the Beehaw way is a good approach. No downvotes only upvotes. Then people actually have to tell why they disagree.
Eh I still like downvotes and find myself just not enjoying beehaw as much without them. I mostly just don’t get the moral panic over having a disagree button more than anything.
Moral panic? What? It’s about healthy community dialogue and slightly how downvotes impacts the psyche.
If someone tells you why they dislike something you like, you’re not doing anyone a favor by downvoting it.You are ignoring how trolls operate in reality though. THey explicitly use “just having an opinion” as cover for shitting up a forum. Look up “sealioning.”
But again, this is my opinion. People are far too concerned about the downvote button. And the fact that the above, completely respectful but seemingly controversial opinion already has downvotes kind of proves my point.
It would be useful if people actually used it to burrow trolls, sealions and irrelevant comments as intended, but as I’ve seen people can’t be trusted with that because as you say: It becomes a “disagree” instead, that targets everything that people disagree with. It gets inane on political topics where useless comments for the right tribe gets immensely upvoted. “Covfefe” Yes, very informative. There could be alternate vote for agreement, funny, or troll mark.
There could be alternate vote for agreement, funny, or troll mark.
Yeah I like this, definitely a troll button next to the vote buttons would be really useful for users to self-moderate comments
Hmm, that is a good point. I really wish Beehaw would refederate with SJW so we could benefit from their activity and experience more. I don’t agree with every decision they make but they certainly have insightful takes at times
This hasn’t been my experience at all. Especially in lemmy.ml worldnews threads which get constantly brigaded by tankies.
Edit - it seems I replied to the wrong comment
I dont use that community so I haven’t seen that.
Maybe try worldnews@sh.itjust.works instead.
I think you meant something else, that’s a person not a community. Perhaps !worldnews@sh.itjust.works wait i thought the ! Was necessary now I’m confused augh
I used a hyperlink. Looks like this without the space (_)
[worldnews@sh.itjust.works]_(https://sh.itjust.works/c/worldnews)
It’s definitely a community
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !worldnews@sh.itjust.works
Yes. This.
Upvoting things you disagree with but are well put and compelling is the litmus test in a way.
Vote for quality = a better platform
Vote for personal appreciation = a toxic platform ?
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I see downvoting of comments for stuff that does not require mods, but is still people being assholes or something not belonging. I don’t vote enough on submissions to have an opinion there :D
edit: word order
Low effort trolls want downvotes though. You’re better off just ignoring them.
I’ve upvoted comments that I disagreed with, but were well written an contributed to a good discussion. I only downvote for very low quality, spam or hateful comments.
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Are upvotes for agreement ok though? Or should upvotes be reserved for quality content?
If you agree with something, you probably consider it quality content.
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Yep. As said by @sunaurus@lemm.ee it was the concept I was reaching for I think.
Taste my righteous wrath and because I can do it with one click without explaining why means I don’t need to and the internet is on my side. Feels like the implicit meaning when I’m downvoted.
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=This is Bad content, which i want to see less of
I think this is very close to the most solid answer possible. Like
This is Bad content
I agree completely with this bit. Downvotes are inherently subjective, as is the concept of Bad content. But to make a choice of what to downvote, someone has to identify something worth deeming downvotable, and screw it, that’s a good way to deacribe what the majority of what falls under that umbrella.
The next bit is where I’d make a correction.
which I want others to see less of
You can’t unsee that bad content, it’s too late. And you can’t guarantee that downvoting will dissuade its continued presence. The only correlation between the two involves an expected emotional attachment between the posters of the bad content and their scoring outcome, and that’s not always here nor there. Bad content posters can be persistent.
But downvoting it has an immediate effect on the visibility of the Bad content for other people. It also labels that content. Doing so, puts it away from other people’s eyes, and tells others that someone thinks it should be put away. Maybe they’ll come to agree or disagree with that downvote, maybe it’ll lead to you seeing less content. Also no guarantee. But that immediate effect, the visibility and the score, can not be taken away.
In either scenario, it’s a communication tool. It may relate to your wishes for content, but mechanically, its impact is felt by a third party.
Dude wrote an entire essay for my two-sentence comment.
Valid points, though
Depends on what kind of post it is.
General discussion threads, sure - ‘up’ = ‘good content’, ‘down’ = ‘irrelevant’. Irrelevant could be because it’s not to do with the matter at hand, it could be hateful, trollish, whatever.
Post asking for a specific fact, like in ye olde askahistorian? Up = correct, down = incorrect. Doesn’t matter how well written or how good the intent is, downvoting for disinformation.
One of the things that Slashdot got right was being able to upvote / downvote with a reason. (Perhaps only being able to upvote / downvote occasionally too, which stops brigading.) Made it possible to filter on why things were good, save ruining your fake internet points when you were mistaken about something as opposed to being an arsehole.
Interesting! I’ve kinda thought this myself, that having a sort of sentiment meta data attached to online actions would be an interesting way to go, kind of as a substitute for the body language and gestures we use and pick up on in real life.
Enter: the wheel of upvote options and the multidimensional spectrum of downvote options. Don’t worry, I’ll ask Google to analyse my life history and feed it into the emote-i-vote.
Come to think of it, I like the attach emoticon thing in GitHub (and lots of other social media? But I’ve liked it in GitHub) to get a relatively convenient and concise expression of “I like your message in this particular(ish) way”
Yea emoji reactions are fun. Calckey has them and it works well.
Hmm interesting question never thought about it, maybe both/varies from post to post
