TLDR:
Windows 11 v24H2 and beyond will have Recall installed on every system. Attempting to remove Recall will now break some file explorer features such as tabs.
YT Video (5min)
Good thing I don’t use Tabs.
What’s an alternative to explorer?
Unfortunately, just switch to Linux is not an option.
Oh my fucking god.
If I still knew anyone who uses Windows I would be laughing at them.
Wow you must not be very social. Windows is the most used OS by a long shot.
You are correct, I am not very social.
EDIT: I am also not of the mind that just because something is common and popular doesn’t mean it isn’t stupid, broken and horrible.
… Working as a DB admin / analyst at MSFT through the Windows 8 release also didn’t help.
3 weeks. 3 weeks where we couldn’t do a goddamned bit of work because SQL manager didn’t work properly and you couldn’t have more than 2 panes open at once.
They really, truly thought that taking the windows out of Windows would be just fine for desktop users. We had to argue with people until they stopped lying and admitted that a Win 7 style mode did exist and was useable underneath the Win 8 interface, and they reluctantly made it easier to switch to without following 3 pages of procedures.
MSFT fucking sucks.
Its more than just ‘I’m not very social’, its also, ‘I have a grudge against MSFT from working for them for pennies and being gaslit and lied to routinely, obviously, without shame, for years.’
Google may be getting a looksy from the DOJ for being a monopoly, and now MSFT is doing the same shit that got them antitrusted 20ish years ago, again, on steroids.
I pray that the marinara may flow, that the noodly appendage of the meatball’d one strikes down this objectively evil giant megacorp.
How did you not know about the “Windows 7 mode” in 8 by the time of release? Wasn’t that sorted out in the preview builds?
We got dogfed (dogfooded?) the preview builds.
At some point, one preview was considered ‘good enough’ that basically everyone at MSFT was forced to switch over to it.
Backlash from MSFTs own employees who were forced to use the pre Windows 7 mode version is a huge reason why they ‘sorted it out’.
EDIT: If you don’t know… and maybe they don’t still do this, but I seriously doubt it, MSFT does what they call dogfooding. Most new software versions are released internally to MSFT employees before it goes public, so that they can functionally beta test everything.
Usually it just causes some work loss in minor ways, but with certain widely used or critical software, it can blow up entire projects and workflows for a while.
Glad I moved away from Windows on all my personal computers. Fedora with Plasma is so similar to Windows and so much better. If my non-tech partner can use it, then anyone can.
Only problem is that Windows is better at resizing content on high resolution (4K) monitors. And ordering multiple monitors on the login screen doesn’t always work right, but it’s fine once logged in. And it takes a bit more to set up than preinstalled Windows that’s on most computers when you buy them. But if it was preinstalled and set up already for the hardware like Windows usually is, it would be way better for nearly everyone.
I’m not sure how it works for KDE and sddm but on gdm it is possible to copy the monitors.xml config file to a certain directory to fix that. After doing so, the login and lock screen settings are synced between the desktop environment and display manager. Not sure how to do it for sddm but I’m sure there’s a way, maybe a script with the correct xrandr commands could solve that.
Edit: monitors.xml, not x11.conf
Yeah, that works sometimes, but the way to fix it seems to change every time I have had to do it. And I have been using Wayland lately and haven’t found a good way to do it that works with the latest versions.
I was curious about this and found this KDE forum post that might help. Looks like you don’t even need a script.
Just like systemd became a dependency for stuff that never needed it in the first place…
I guess you were downvoted because Recall is a closed-source privacy nightmare, and systemd, for all its flaws, is open source.
Does it relate to your statement? No. But people will take pitchforks if you compare the two, I fancy.
I fancy
I’m not saying you aren’t fancy, but grab a pitchfork and start fencing with it!!
(But yes, I was a bit confused by downvotes too but your explanation makes sense - which is weird bcs now that I understand it as such I’m def in the pitchfork crowd, even if I think we should be either way more lenient or give waaay more funding for the open sauce peeps providing us the rescue we don’t deserve)
Comparing systemd to recall is like comparing apples to gauges of guitar strings.
I was comparing the approach, not the products.
The context matters, doesn’t it? Like it or not, systemd is essential for moderns Linux systems by design, it’s necessary for them to work. You can’t say the same about recall. Comparing the approach without comparing the products is unfair.
systemd is essential for moderns Linux systems
And yet moderm linux systems existed prior to systemd, as modern windows exited without recall… Yes i can say the same. You can run linux without systemd (ask Gentoo, Devuan, Slackware and others) and you can run windows without recall. The dependency is forced and artificial.
It’s almost as if standardization under Systemd can be beneficial. Still, I’m not a fan of the monolithic approach.
Not a huge fan but systemd does a lot of stuff necessary to run linux. Of course there’s more than one way to skin a cat, but it makes sense to have systemd as a dependency. Recall does exactly zero essential functionality to the OS that would justify making it a dependency to something as important as explorer.exe on Windows.
What happens if you copy explorer.exe from a prior release of Windows and replace the recall-infested version?
At that point why bother? Either accept it and move on, or axe the partition and start browsing forums full of furry pfp gentleanimals advising you on how to fix your latest issue with your new linux installation.
Tap for spoiler
OwO
I know you’re mixing in joking with your response, but can I point out the irony that a Linux advocate is telling me essentially “don’t try to hack a solution, just give it up entirely and adopt a completely different product”. That is the opposite of the Linux mindset I’m familiar with.
It’s because Linux isn’t actually trying to work against you, even if it may feel that way to a noobie at first. Guaranteed this requirement exists to make Recall impossible to uninstall, and for no other reason.
The question isn’t “why take the time to hack windows” it’s “why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
Guaranteed this requirement exists to make Recall impossible to uninstall, and for no other reason.
Or maybe it’s so you can use it in search box in explorer.exe
I’m skeptical that irrevocably tying the two together is the only or best technological solution to wanting it in the search box.
It’s because Linux isn’t actually trying to work against you, even if it may feel that way to a noobie at first.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”. I don’t believe that is the case either. Linux works for itself, and if what you want can be done with Linux, great! If you have the skills to alter Linux to do what you want, also great! If you have neither of those, then you’ll be left without a specific solution. Linux is great, but trying to pitch it as purely altruistic and supportive isn’t accurate and could lead those trying it to abandon it early because their own experience doesn’t meet this implicit expectation.
The question isn’t “why take the time to hack windows” it’s “why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want? Because that was one of the basic tenets underlying Linux. There is no perfect operating system, just different tradeoffs. If one OS meets most of your needs for a specific task, and you have a way to hack it to fix the rest, thats the better solution rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. Departing from this idea moves the definition of computing from a tool to a religion/social movement. That’s fine for some, but not my calling.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”.
That’s literally not what I said, nor what I implied. If you want to interpret it that way it’s your choice, but I’m not going to defend a statement I didn’t make and didn’t try to make.
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
I feel like you aren’t distinguishing between “problem exists” and “problem exists because the makers of my OS want it to exist.”
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want?
I literally said this was NOT the question.
I’m not trying to strawman you here, so lets revisit these to make sure we understand what each other is saying.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”.
That’s literally not what I said, nor what I implied. If you want to interpret it that way it’s your choice, but I’m not going to defend a statement I didn’t make and didn’t try to make.
I don’t understand why you’d bring up “trying to work against you” if you weren’t implying that Linux was the opposite. I suggested you were implying it was the opposite, and you’re communicating now that is not what you mean. I don’t think you’re suggesting that Linux “is trying to work against you”. So if its not a positive, and not a negative, you’re suggesting what…neutral? As in, “Linux is neither trying to work against you nor is trying to help you”. I suppose I can agree with that, but I’m not sure how that supports your argument.
What am I missing you are trying to communicate with your statement?
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
I feel like you aren’t distinguishing between “problem exists” and “problem exists because the makers of my OS want it to exist.”
You’re right, I’m not distinguishing between them because as an end user the reason is irrelevant. I’m left with the same result, with the same choices about how to solve it for myself. I’m not trying to save the world. I’m trying to get my computing done.
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want? I literally said this was NOT the question.
My apologies for the paraprhasing of your position of my position.
Lets look at your exact question:
“why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
My answer: Because I’m not trying to save the world. I’m trying to get my computing done. If a hack to the existing product can do that faster than changing the world, then the hack is the better choice FOR ME. If its a social/religious movement for you, feel free to spread the “good word”. I won’t stop you, but I’m not interested in joining your evangelistic endeavor.
Man, if “Microsoft is actively trying to take control of my hardware and prevent me from deciding how it is used” and “Linux has a learning curve and lacks market dominance to get hardware manufacturers to play with them sometimes” seem like equivalent circumstances to you, there is no number of iterations to this back and forth that are going to arrive at any common ground between you and I. I can only say good day to you.
Incompatible DLLs most likely.
it was vastly easier to install linux mint than it is to figure out registry editing or whatever the fuck i’d need to avoid this
Welcome to Linux Mint mate!
Maybe Cinnamon mate!
yes thank you!
I thought Cinnamon and Mate were different things… /s
For the people who doesn’t get it (I notice your /s, so you do get it): It’s has a hidden joke. Mate can also mean “friend”. So “Welcome to Linux Mint mate!” can mean two things at the same time. Hence my reply: “Maybe Cinnamon mate!”, where “Cinnamon” refers to “Linux Mint Cinnamon”, but mate just refers to friend/buddy. But Mate can also mean MATE, a classic desktop environment for Linux Mint.
Oh haha, didn’t realise that pun was intended… But yeah thats right :)
And some Windows update would “accidentally” undo that anyways.
This is where some Windows shill says “you only need to fix it once!” as if this is your only computer ever, and the only problem you need to fix. And then Windows changes it back to their default in next year’s update.
And as if it’s entirely reasonable for the maker of your OS to intentionally work against your ability to control your own hardware and what runs on it.
Nah, mate, Linux is hard, you need to know what a Wayland is. In comparison, Windows is very simple and lightweight, you only have to run a dozen Powershell scripts and edit the registry weekly to get rid of ads.
“Do I look like I know what a Wayland is?”
I just want a picture of a goddamn hotdog
You sonova… Have an upvote
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie… “Windows is very simple and lightweight” 😂
The difference between Linux and Windows is on Linux you’re working with the operating system to make modifications and taking advantage of its vast resources (extensive wikis on major distos, terminal auto completion with fish and zsh, preconfigured defaults when installing through the package manager, etc). Meanwhile on Windows you’re actively working against the system in order to disable unwanted features like AI and telemetry.
(Also I would recommend looking into Debian, the software may be a tad bit old but its the most stable distribution)
Also I would recommend looking into Debian, the software may be a tad bit old but its the most stable distribution
I daily drive Mint, which is in the Debian family. Highly recommend it as it is geared for a ‘works out of the box’ experience for people. And the default UI (Cinnamon) is very familiar to Windows users. Complete with a task bar, tray, and searchable start menu.
Pure Debian is more of a server OS, and not something one should recommend as a daily driver. It’s not deficient in that, but it takes a fair bit of work to get it up and running for daily use.
Happy Debian daily driver here. I would never ever recommend raw Debian to a garden variety would-be Linux convert.
If you think something like Debian is something a Linux illiterate can just pick up and start using proficiently, you’re severely out of touch with how most computer users actually think about their machines. If you even so much as know the name of your file explorer program, you’re in a completely different league.
Debian prides itself on being a lean, no bloat, and stable environment made only of truly free software (with the ability to opt-in to nonfree software). To people like us, that’s a clean, blank canvas on a rock-solid, reliable foundation that won’t enshittify. But to most people, it’s an austere, outdated, and unfashionable wasteland full of flaky, ugly tooling.
Debian can be polished to any standard one likes, but you’re expected to do it yourself. Most people just aren’t in the game to play it like that. Debian saddles questions of choice almost no one is asking, or frankly, even knew was a question that was ask*-able*. Mandatory customizeability is a flaw, not a feature.
I am absolutely team “just steer them to Mint”. All the goodness of Debian snuck into their OS like medicine in a kid’s dessert, wrapped up in something they might actually find palatable. Debian itself can be saved for when, or shall I say if, the user eventually goes poking under the hood to discover how the machine actually ticks.
Debian is probably one of the worst choices for someone looking to try Linux, especially for gaming.
Nothing better than setting everything up only to find you can’t install some new thing because your xyz is too old
I was on Debian Sid for a year or 2 and gaming was working perfectly until I did an update that uninstalled my GUI and WiFi drivers. I’m on Mint now and it’s been smooth sailing so far
Anyone whos new to gaming on Linux is probably using the Steam Flatpak, also stability is more important for newer users then a few utilities that power users (like myself) enjoy.
Debian just looking out for their users making sure they don’t waste time playing vidya.
Debian is always my first choice, but I’m not playing the newest stuff (Far Cry 5/7D2D/Ark/etc), while it hasn’t been ‘smooth sailing’, I haven’t found anything that just refuses to play.
I’m thinking of changing my life (to require less of rot-affected computing) and moving to FreeBSD. Even Linux is hard in small ways, even if worlds easier than Windows. Would be OpenBSD if not for games.
Mate you think BSD is better than Linux for ease-of-configuration – in what fucking universe?!
I dunno
in what fucking universe
“BSD” is one thing, so can’t answer your question.
If you meant that Linux has a lot of graphical configurators to do things - GUI is not necessarily easier than editing config files, because config files can be clean and compact and examples well-commented, and documentation can actually describe how to use the bloody thing. It’s just that in Linux this is not the case. While GUI configurators can be hardly usable nonsense and yes, in Linux they mostly are.
And this difference in wide strokes is indeed common for all 4 BSDs against Linux for things that differ between operating systems.
The rest sucks just as badly.
EDIT: I wonder if any person upvoting/downvoting these comments has ever tried the things they are about.
I absolutely love Linux mint. I use it daily for dev work, but I’d also install it on my mother’s old laptop so she could keep using Facebook on it or whatever.
I’ve been very impressed by the out-of-the-box experience with Pop!_OS. My Steam games work, and I have Elder Scrolls Online running through Lutris.
So far, everything just works.
I have to admit that one does look really good too.
I have a couple of old windows machines at home, so eventually (maybe as a winter project) I’ll need to decide if I want to try some other distros long term.
Same. First distro that was actually painless 10 years ago, and I haven’t looked back.
I love winutil. Makes debloating windows a lot easier.
Does it remove recall?
Installs Debian.
So, I just bought a new laptop. It came with Windows 11. But anyways, I’m writing this comment from a freshly installed Bazzite Linux OS.
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Just use explorer patcher on win,10 22h2, fixed
For years… well pretty much since I had a PC, I had a Windows partition. Why? Well because I (sadly) paid for the damn thing (damn OEM deals). Plus, I admit, sometimes they were things that only ran on Windows.
For few years now though, everything, literally, from the latest tech gadget to playing games to VR, works on Linux.
Few weeks ago I deleted the Windows partition. I didn’t have to. I didn’t boot on it for months. It didn’t affect me.
Still, I now feel … safer, more relaxed, coherent.
When I see shit like that, I feel even better!
VR works on Linux? Thru Steamvr?
Yes, I even play VR Windows games on Linux., the latest one released just weeks ago being Subside.
I’m using a Valve Index but with ALVR even standalone HMDs, e.g. (sadly from Meta) the cheap Quests line. You can find a lot more details on https://lvra.gitlab.io
Even Windows exes work on Linux now. It took me some time and learning but I got Wine to work with some program from my walkie talkie’s manufacturer and it involves serial programming over USB.
Sadly Windows is still required for a lot of cad softwares.
The best windows debloater is delete system32 and install Linux,.
That’s my situation, except I haven’t deleted my partition yet, mostly because it sits on a separate physical disk. Maybe one day…
I have windows on another physical disk and I plan to delete my windows partition in 2025 and start a software raid 0 configuration, sadly linux is not yet ready.
Yea about a year ago I switched entirely over to Linux. I am a system engineer so I have to deal with windows at work all the time but on my computer, I feel calm. Like I don’t have to worry about my operating system. Windows is getting in the way more than it’s helping 99% of the time now.
So… how does this exist in corporate environments where PCI DSS is necessary? Is the government also going to have to deal with fallout from this?
I wonder if there will ever be a point where legislation dictates features from an os vendor… we lost control of our hardware when they started forcing updates. I’m sure someone will hack a DLL or something to allow explorer to run but kill this component… But should we really need to hack our systems to protect ourselves from spying?
Inb4 Linux - I ran Slackware in the early 90s, and my server still runs a deb based distro… but when I want to play Forza, I’m pretty limited with my choices, etc.
MIT license:
Explore a beautiful Windows-first design. Manage all your files with increased productivity. Work across multiple folders with tabs. And so much more.
It looks nice, and has extra features like tabs, tagging 7zip/archive management, cloud drives, git integration, comparing file hashes, etc.
The only issue I had was performance, it took a long time to start each time. I’m planning on trying it again sometime later
Whoa. I wonder if explorer can be ripped out entirely and replace with this
explorer.exeis still used for desktop and probably other stuff as well, so it might not be possible without using 3rd party shell replacement and not many exist.
This is absolutely insane
My condolences to all Windows 11 users.It’s becoming common knowledge that:
- It’s not a matter of if but when will xyz service/application be breached and what are the potential damages it could do to me and others?
"I assume every online service is not if; it’s when is it going to be breached? Right? So I operate under that assumption, that everything is going to be breached at some point. And so that’s why Recall was so scary to me where it’s like, I don’t care how secure they say it is, like you look at Spectre and Meltdown no one thought these things were going to affect millions of CPUs and here we are, right?
- Steve from Gamers Nexus
[Level1Techs] Microsoft Is KILLING Windows | ft. Steve @GamersNexus
I guess I just have to keep Windows 10 with a custom group policy that disables all updates either forever or until I learn Linux.
Linux gaming is getting to the point that I could consider the switch, but I hear scary stories about Nvidia drivers.
I have a GTX 1080 and I’ve been gaming on Linux for over a year now. No issues. Only thing that you cant do is some of the new generation window managers (wayland) but even that is working well in the nvidia drivers that arent on stable yet. In any case, the previous generations window managers work great and if wayland doesnt work properly for you, you can just as easily do without it.
Point is, its worth it to make the switch. I set my partner up with Linux Mint when their machine didnt qualify for windows updates anymore and they’ve had no problems, games and all. And they would never touch the command line.
Would recommend
hey GTX1080 user! Have you been able to get any games running with RTX? I picked mine up used a while back, and I kinda stopped PC gaming ages ago, but it’d be nice to use these features if I could. I haven’t been able to get RTX Portal or RTX Quake 2 to work right via Steam, so i figured the card/drivers just can’t handle it and I should just play vanilla DOOM instead.
My understanding is the 1080 predated the RTX stuff by a generation, even when I was on Windows I don’t think the Nvidia drivers for the 1080 supported RTX well, if at all
Correct.
I still have a 1080Ti in one machine and it definitely does not support RTX of any stripe, on any OS.
Yep same with PoPOS. Great little distro. It’s been my daily driver for years now.
As others have already pointed out Nvidia drivers aren’t that bad. The only game I’ve had issues with is Star Wars Outlaws, but I think that has more to do with the game itself than Nvidia drivers (It’s not exactly a stable experience on Windows either).
The only big thing holding Linux gaming back is anti-cheat, but that’s mostly because AAA developers don’t want to allow anti-cheat on Linux. It’s worth checking out if your favorite online game can be played on Linux.
Nvidia drivers are mostly OK now.
I made the switch with my old 1080ti the newer GPUs work even better and mine has given me almost 0 issues with Linux mint. It’s worth the dive. Mint also “just works” so it’s super easy to get into from Windows.
Nvidia drivers are the reason I end up going back to windows every time. Once installed they work fine, but installation and updating were always fraught with issues, and would inevitably break and piss me off to the point I gave up and went back to windows.
Haven’t tried since I got my amd card, but maybe Nvidia Linux drivers are less terrible than they had been.
If you have a new NVIDIA GPU (Turing+), you can use the new open kernel module. If you have older ones, I guess you’re stuck with the proprietary or bad unofficial open source ones. The open kernel module works good and gets the job done. No need to be afraid of it. I get over 1000fps in (optimized) minecraft with shaders. I couldn’t do that in windows.
Turing +, not tuner +
done
Which GPU do you have? I’m looking for an upgrade and those framerates make me drool.
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4050 Mobile
Running EndeavourOS with Nvidia on Wayland for some months now. Prior to 555 it was a bit janky at times. Since then, and now with 560, the only issue I’m having is related to sleep/hibernation mode. Game wise everything runs fine.
Worst thing is you may have to learn downgrade commands on PopOS if a game breaks with driver updates.
Try a Live USB and find out for yourself if your distro of choice plays nice with your rig. You could have your answer in an hour or so of following YouTube tutorials.
I guess it depends on what you do, but as an awerage user - not really much to learn in terms of Linux. No special knowledge needed to use it like a normal person. I had to reformat some drives so Linux can use them and learning about Heroic games launcher, Lutris and Bottles to run non-steam games and windows software amd learn about compatibility layer built into Steam.
Otherwise it just works. Using Linux Mint. Didn’t boot to Windows pretty much since I installed it - there was no need.
EndeavourOS (Arch-based) works fantastic with latest Nvidia drivers, for me
Including for sleep and hibernate? Those are what I’ve run into issues with with EndeavourOS and Garuda with my NVIDIA gpu
Hmm I never use hibernate but sleep seems fine for me
I moved to Linux Mint after a brief stint with Manjaro. I don’t prefer the Cinnamon interface, but gaming has been perfect. Bottles, allows me to install GOG Galaxy and the games run. I even modded Skyrim using a manual process and a ton of animation mods, that worked alright a lot of times with Vortex ( for the most part).
Linux can handle NTFS partitions, and just take a small line to fix if they are open during a crash. Flatpak software is really stable to install and keep installed.
I haven’t yet had a problem with steam games.
The only problem I have is with streaming services forcing Windows usage, so I got a VPN and raised the Jolly Roger to watch streaming services.
My 3080 plays games fine, and the few times it got a little slow I rebooted and it all worked fine. Discord calls and Twitch work fine. I even take my VA Online appointments with no issues.
It’s closer to going back to Windows 7 or XP, with a decent free office software.
It may have been the case in the past but Ive used both the GTX 680 and RTX 3060 on Fedora with no issue whatsoever. I have veen using the nvidia peoprietary drivers and they work well.
I’ve had no significant driver issues with Mint and a 2080, myself. I switched back in February, and most things – games included – just work. The few that didn’t, were easy to fix with some searching on stackoverflow and reddit (about the only thing that site is good for now).
if an idiot like me can do it, so can you.
You can run Windows in virtual machine, you know.
It would be the best if you could have dedicated GPU for it, to be able to run games with nearly 100% performance.
I had no issues with Nvidia. PopOs has support for Nvidia on install…I used it and it worked
I had minor issues when I first installed, but I worked them all out.
Install and give it a week. Seven days. If you can’t get it all figured out by then head back to windows. If you can figure it out, you probably won’t go back.
I use Garuda and NVIDIA gives me no troubles
