quite the opposite for me. bluesky is a centralized platform owned by capital exactly like twitter, thus prone to the same issues.
migrating to bluesky instead of mastodon will just delay the problem.
Its open source isn’t it? It still has the same problems but on a privacy level, having it be open source is much better.
reddit was open source as well.
was
Bluesky actually has content though. Unless all you want is linux and news.
chicken and egg kinda problem. mastodon would have benefitted from the influx of users.
I hope some of them come to the Fediverse. It’s nice that only the curious ones will come.
I think the smartest ones will. Really I don’t mind an intelligent community like this one.
Now left-wing has their own echo chamber, hurray
Now normal people have a microblogging platform where they aren’t constantly having fascist propaganda shoved down their throats.
fascist propaganda shoved down their throats
I’v seen more left propaganda on Reddit and Twitter, and people who can’t handle other perspectives calling you fascist just because how you marked a ballot.
People are not leaving twitter because of “fascism”, they are leaving twitter because they have zero tolerance to other perspectives, they think their vote is the right one, and they are the smarter ones. An echo chamber by definition.
Everything I see on Reddit is people getting downvoted and banned just for saying: “My husband is a republican, but a ballot doesn’t define you as a person and he loves and respects me as much as I do”
OP has posted (and re-posted) about Bluesky about 40 times in the last 48 hours. I’m down voting every single one. Quit shilling for billionaires.
Are they a bot??
I don’t know. Lots of folks pointing out That Part Of Twitter (TPOT) also migrating over.
luckily bluesky has strong moderation tools and community managed block listn, so you can totally limit the voices of those folk
Meaning like the rationalist / effective altruism guys? Would have thought they’d be prone to sticking with Musk
The postrat folk. The deep value Silicon Valley folk. Core Techbro kind of people.
Would have thought they’d be prone to sticking with Musk
Ditto, but at the same time. Being with daddy Musk might be too traditional at this point. No idea the reasons, but you can to see a lot of this popping up in that circle on Twitter.
TPOT → Bluesky is actually an interesting example of what looks like a successful transplantation… quasi-existential concerns about Elon Twitter, vibes have been off leading to big cascades of migration tend to happen after inciting incidents (eg twitter banning substack links being a canary in the coal mine)
You know the “I sound super thoughtful” kind of stuff. Lots of praise from that Group on XTwitter/Bluesky.
Interesting. As with any problematic group that makes the transition it’s a bit annoying to have to deal with them on the new platform, but they shouldn’t be banned and them moving is a great sign that bluesky has the juice.
Yeah, something got in their crawl and Bluesky is on low key TPOT rising.
Someone did a post on it, you can see the map that was done in the picture there with TPOT in blue.
I don’t know why they started coalescing on Bluesky, but it is what it is. If they get annoying there, I know how to mute them. But as long as that doesn’t also herald the “free speech absolutists” that literally add zero value, I’m cool with TPOT heading to Bluesky.
Besides, I’m more active on Fedi/Mastodon at this point than Threads/Bluesky so it’s not really a pressing thing for me. I mean shit, I wouldn’t have a problem with Musk’s network if he’d clamp down on the utter trash going on over there. Like it’s gotten to pure garbage, I haven’t the time to block everyone who pops into my feeds that how hard the algo there is pushing the trash.
On Bluesky anyone who really hates TPOT can make a block list that anyone can subscribe to and you never have to think of it again. You can also easily flag accounts to include on the list.
If TPOT moved en masse to Mastodon, across many different instances, how would someone achieve the same thing? My understanding is they don’t have any similar feature. As long as “just block them all individually or hope they all move to one shitty instance you can block” is the solution, it’s going to fail to attract people.
Instances that welcome that part of Twitter are mostly defederated.
In that case the instance you’re on is basically the block list, right? That’s good, especially if most instances are really dedicated to stamping out that kind of thing. But if/when Mastodon gets big, it becomes a problem of scale.
In practical terms it’s kind of unrealistic to expect T&S to deal with people because they have garbage takes; most of their day is going to be dealing with the usual internet nightmare sludge, which is where I think block lists become a real utility on the user end of things. In addition to the advantage of just making the blocked users shout into the void when 90% of the site wants nothing to do with their ass, which I can tell you from observation makes them extremely mad.
Anything that requires end users to react to trolls in a reactive way and in a troll by troll basis, and only after the troll has dropped their payload is going to take its toll on vulnerable folk.
Big popular blocklists that people subscribe to aren’t always the answer, because they also have a history of incidentally impacting marginalised groups, even when they’re trying to protect them.
Right up until you sit through his 6min speech on 1A. It’s like the goal is to turn all social media platforms into Twitter.
Right up until you sit through his 6min speech on 1A. It’s like the goal is to turn all social media platforms into Twitter.
I like Jason but he completely missed the boat on this one.
The active migration away from social media networks that are owned, controlled by, and distorted by the richest men and most powerful companies in the world to a decentralized platform that is not owned and controlled by billionaires is one of the more hopeful things to happen in what has largely been a bleak year for the human internet as AI slop infects everything and billionaires put their thumbs on the scale of what we see on social media.
He says this and yet jumps to Bluesky, a platform created by Jack Dorsey and now owned and managed by a crypto bro? You don’t need powers of prophecy to see where Bluesky is headed.
It’s very telling that all across lemmy this is being celebrated. Looks like most people completely missed the point.
I don’t myself like mastodon very much, but if you came to lemmy to stick it to the man it’s a bit silly to cheer on the next man, which is what bluesky is.
Twitter will remain a place for the Right and nut job grifters , probably absorb truth social and the others. bluesky will become the place for liberals and centrists who jerk each other off because they have a degree and gay friends and think they are enlightened.
Sorry , nobody asked for that rant .
Your rant is very much appreciated.
Most people came to Lemmy becaise they felt personally agreived by the Reddit API issue. They don’t give a shit about what’s good for the Internet, or society.
They’re here out of protest, and would happily give their all to the next Billionaire that makes them feel smarter than the average bear.
People aren’t going to be convinced of social/communism overnight.
I celebrate the move to BlueSky as positive in that they are no longer propping up an apartheid tech bro who’s now running a meme branch of US Government, and also because many of them are doing the thing they were scared to do before: leave. They now know how that feels and what it will be like rebuilding friend groups and such.
It’s not the anti-corpo step many are deluding themselves to believe it is, but getting out of the muck and learning how to take the step to change something are both things I see as positives that can be guided to better things in the future.
musk could just buy it. jack already sold twitter to him, and while musk might have comprehended how shitty a deal it was (i mean he tried to back out of the contract and all); he doesn’t seem like the guy who would be smart enough to avoid cost sunk fallacy and might want to buy bluesky to keep digging that hole. and jack wouldn’t turn him down for a bid on bluesky for the same reason he didn’t turn him down before - money. heck, if the rightwing shittards were ready to really destroy the “liberal web” they’d make sure musk could buy and convert bluesky too. nowhere for “liberals” to run after that, because they already had the option for mastodon and choose fucking bluesky like months to a flame.
musk could just buy it. jack already sold twitter to him,
Yeah, certainly, or some other billionaire. I think it goes without saying that most of us here understand the flaws with centralized services.
I’m not saying it’s the best choice ever, but I’m hopeful that the choice to leave Xitter might do positive things to people’s mentality when BlueSky almost certainly repeats history. It’s not likely to happen right away, as even an offer to buy would take time to approve, so for now, I’m taking it as a net positive.
The Fediverse will continue to grow and change in the meantime, and we’ll all still be here to help them migrate to better things in the future.
Yea, it would seem the embrace from those “who should maybe know better” is based on it being the appropriate compromise to make progress in this field.
BlueSky is not just another centralised platform. It’s open source (or mostly), based on an open protocol and an architecture that’s hybrid-decentralised. The “billionaire” security, AFAICT, is that we can rebuild it with our own data should it go to shit.
This thread from Andre Staltz is indicative I think: https://bsky.app/profile/staltz.com/post/3lawesmv6ik2d
He worked on scuttlebut/manyverse for a long while before moving on a year or so ago. Along with Paul Frazee, a core dev with bsky who’d previously done decentralisation, I think there’s a hunger to just make it work for people and not fail on idealistic grounds.
That’s cool. Well, I wish them well. Hopefully they can make something that’s good for people and not just chase profits.
The interesting dynamic is that it seems like they’re making things that could lay lots of foundations for a lot of independent decentralised stuff, but people and devs need to actually pick that up and make it happen, and many users just want something that works.
So somewhat like lemmy-world and mastodon-social, they get stuck holding a centralised service whose success is holding hostage the decentralised system/protocol they actually care about.
For me, the thing I’ve noticed and that bothers me is that much of the focus and excitement and interest from the independent devs working in the space don’t seem too interested in the purely decentralised and fail-safe-rebuilding aspects of the system. Instead, they’re quite happy to build on top of a centralised service.
Which is fine but ignores what to me is the greatest promise of their system: to combine centralised and decentralised components into a single network. EG, AFAICT, running ActivityPub or similar within ATProto is plausible. But the independent devs don’t seem to be on that wavelength.
we’re on lemmy, yet over the past few days there has been probably 100+ posts and so many more pro-bluesky comments written. so i’d say most of us here apparently do not understand it.
the worst part about all this isn’t that bluesky is getting traction, i really couldn’t care less about it since i’m happy with Mastodon as it is. the worst part is that a critical mass is moving somewhere else than the fediverse which indirectly let’s facebook groups maintain their dominance over the hobby space. it may sound contrived, but i firmly believe that if the fediverse gains critical mass. regardless of service. then the hobby space could actually, finally, move off that shitty platform, but for the third time, Mastodon devs didn’t care to cease the moment, so it’s never going to happen, and probably not even when the flagship (Mastodon) finally launches groups (which was promised a 2020 release, 4 years behind schedule and absolutely no updates, feels like vapor ware at this point and facebook will always be king because of it). but, maybe bluesky will offer a good groups feature, and then the hobby space will happily move from one dumpster fire to another, yay. i guess, the devil you know, and all that, has never been more appropriate.
groups With the gup.pe concept, social groups can be formed on Mastodon today!
afaik there are several of those offers and they are all now defunct. and as they are shabby work-arounds they do not offer anything in terms of technical group management, administration or data indexing, so it’s essentially worse than the already crappy state of facebook groups. not to mention, it’s i.e. not something your average 50+ year old dove fancier will use in place of facebook groups for their club activities. it’s unreasonable to try convince users to go from a bad solution to a worse solution. it would be better to just setup a traditional forum in that case; but everyone left those for facebook for a reason.
Mastodon devs didn’t care to cease the moment
And they never will. That’s not their focus or goal. They don’t care about “gaining momentum” and explosive growth, and I wouldn’t want them to.
That’s up to us. Convincing people to join the Fediverse and showing them better alternatives to their favorite platforms (and teaching them how to use them) is our collective job, not some group of hobbyist devs.
Plus I think explosive growth would change the vibe of the Fediverse in a negative way, since most people expect it to be free (i.e. “I am the product”) and shitty (so always taking offense). I’m fine peeling people away over time.
For groups, I don’t know if Mastodon will ever get that or not. Friendica exists, it’s more analogous to Facebook than Mastodon, and it already has groups and public/private forums. I’m not really sure if that would be a great addition to the microblog format of Mastodon, anyway, so I don’t really care if it never comes.
groups With the gup.pe concept, social groups can be formed on Mastodon today!
And they never will. That’s not their focus or goal. They don’t care about “gaining momentum” and explosive growth, and I wouldn’t want them to. While it’s not their goal, it should be. Social media is all about momentum, without momentum you disappear. There are hundreds of exhibits for how there can “only be one” in the social media space. The reason for that is simple; people want a means to access all their communities at one access point, it’s why facebook groups had killed 99% of the hobby forums out there by 2020, starting in 2015. This is why the fediverse would in theory actually work, but it can’t because of certain limitations in the fediverse space, and the lack of group management. Yes, friendica is sort-of like facebook, but people don’t actually want facebook. likewise, facebook groups is a terrible replacement for traditional forums, it’s like trying to hammer a nail with a screwdriver, because it’s designed for absorbing algorithm pushed junk information, not for having a healthy discussion, which basically means people just see the same questions asked every single day and there is rarely ever any discussions and when there are, the facebook search index doesn’t work well enough for people to find the information nor is the information possible to index, which is all by design, to maximize engagement at the cost of literally everything else. the problem with people is that they want both a junk information stream, and a means to enjoy rich engagement with their community. in every club i’m in, people are screaming at how they hate facebook because meta takes liberties to update their policies which directly harms the clubs activities and it just makes it impossible to manage information and the same questions are being asked every single day. the lack of active focus engagement is also causing the clubs to bleed paid membership and thus budget for national events etc. it’s really a downward spiral and it will kill a lot of hobbies before long. i’m not saying that friendica couldn’t be a good replacement, because literally ANY federated space with a means to organize club activities would do just fine (mobilizion would probably be the best), if only it had enough critical mass to let the users engage with all their communities at one single platform (spread comes after the fact), and because of the stability, ui, and condensed information stream with high activity already existing on mastodon, it is the hands down best place on the web for an exodus of all the clubs currently locked in on facebook - IF they finish their groups feature.
musk could just buy it. jack already sold twitter to him, and while musk might have comprehended how shitty a deal it was (i mean he tried to back out of the contract and all); he doesn’t seem like the guy who would be smart enough to avoid cost sunk fallacy and might want to buy bluesky to keep digging that hole. and jack wouldn’t turn him down for a bid on bluesky for the same reason he didn’t turn him down before - money.
That’s actually not as easy with Bluesky. It’s decentralized enough that buying it doesn’t help control it that well. The previous owners or someone else could easily go set up another shop and compete using the same network and protocol.
Do I wish Mastodon were coming out on top? Sure. But Bluesky is still a significant improvement.
not really, maybe i’m wrong but as a commercial service meant to generate money for the owners, bluesky will never federate with a third party server. there is no point in federation for bluesky besides being in control of the technology itself. just like how google and facebook killed XMPP, or how microsoft and google are currently trying to kill the email protocol.
For me the bigger value is not in the quality difference between the two platforms. And don’t get me wrong, i agree that BlueSky is a lot better than Elon’s Twitter, but not as good as a decentralised Fediverse Platform.
The real positive is in the act of migration itself, because it shows that is still a possibility. So hopefully it proves sustainable.
Small steps
He says this and yet jumps to Bluesky, a platform created by Jack Dorsey and now owned and managed by a crypto bro?
At least maybe some more regular people will learn about decentralization (and alternative ways there) from this mass adoption?
Honestly I don’t know what’s up with the mass delusion about Bluesky being oligarch-free. It’s understandable that most don’t know or haven’t looked into it, but then some folks that should know better are displaying the same ignorance.
People going over don’t care who owns it, they just want to use a platform that regularly censors thoughts they disagree with. That’s it.
They want a platform where THEY can censor. No matter how much I block Leon M. on twitter, I keep seeing his posts
Whether it soon becomes possible to self host an AppView, the one remaining centralized component will tell us a lot about where it’s headed.
There are already smaller appviews that use the existing hosting/authentication infra, but bypassing the bsky appview aggregation. Nothing with any real scale but for example there is a barebones reddit/hackernews equivalent https://frontpage.fyi/
That’s interesting. This post had suggested it isn’t yet possible to host an AppView. It seems the reality is more complex.
That post refers to hosting an appview that does all the same things as the official bsky (the service) one, which involves a ton of storage and bandwidth and processing (for everyone’s recommendations, notifications, and all the other moving parts), and is closed source to boot.
Frontpage.fyi is a lot cheaper simply because its used by like 50 people tops.
Bluesky is VC-funded. Enshittification incoming.
Anybody recommend a good mastodon instance?
Which is both Fediverse and Mastodon.
Well… yeah.
Did I say that wrong?
Is it Lemmy and Mastodon?
They are both ‘fediverse’?
Yeah, sorry for being snarky, but the Fediverse refers to all federated software. So, Fedia.io for example, is an MBin instance. Which is different than Lemmy and Mastodon but they can all interact with each other. They’re all part of the overall Fediverse. So your comment was just kind of awkwardly phrased and redundant.
Oh ok. Got it.
Thanks,
my personal solo instance is great but the admin is an asshole.
Pick any instance that suits your interests: https://joinmastodon.org/en/servers There is also this picker.
This is really cool, it helped me find an instance that specializes in shitposting, much appreciated!
What’s the name of it?
Jorts.horse
Jeez, man! Just yesterday I’ve read some text about some bad things this instance has done! I don’t know if the situation is better now, though. It was a webpage from 2023.
Damn it
Bluesky is not great, but it’s at least (for now) a better platform than X and the AT protocol is actually very well written. (For instance having a moderation service separated from the service that provides the posts I think is a hands-down better way to handle it than most ActivityPub servers having their admins handle all incoming and outgoing moderation)
Bluesky federation is just now getting started so it’ll be interesting to see if it goes anywhere/where it goes.
How does another social media ruled by a billionaire gives hope?
Because it shows that a sizable amount of people are at least anti-nazi enough to move platform.
Yes, it would be nicer if they moved to mastodon, but nobody even knows what that is, nobody is there (classic chicken and egg problem), and people get confused by the whole “choose an instance/server” thing.
Is it not ok to have a small celebration of people moving to a better, more positive platform, even if it is far from perfect?
The CEO of Bluesky just posted they hit 17M users today after hitting 16M in the last 24 hours.
The juice is juicin’.
Threads, Blue Sky and Mastodon are at 292.8m mau vs Twitter’s 304m
Sure, but what percentage of users are bots on twitter at this point?
80%, if I’m feeling optmistic!
We are witnessing the rise of a new platform (in terms of relevance) in real time, this will probably be one of the key points in our digital decade, and it’s happening right now! Have you thought about it?
Shame that it’s another Capital-owned platform taking the spotlight. I’m not surprised unfortunately. We’ll be in the same place we are now in 10 years.
I’m preaching to the choir, but mastodon is the better platform if you want more authentic community and conversation.
Chances are that any new large commercial platform will enshittify, sooner or later prompting another exodus, and each exodus will at least have some people choosing a community platform.
Someone has to do a mastodon instance called Bluesky
Blueski
Tradermark/copyright. Someone did that, but with the Koo app, since it expired.
