• Cowbee [he/they]
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    135 months ago

    This is a complex question, but up front first and foremost in any Capitalist country, voting will always benefit the rich, even FDR style Social Democracy came about as concessions to prevent revolution in the context of a decimated working class and a rising USSR.

    People, generally, vote along their class interests, but these are handled in a different manner depending on which country you are in. Using the US as an example, the DNC caters to social progressivism, while the GOP caters to social conservativism. On foreign policy, the GOP and DNC are near identical, and when it comes to domestic economic policy, the DNC caters slightly more to urban voters while the GOP caters to rural voters.

    This is all, however, in the context of parties that function as businesses that sell policy to Capitalists. Both parties serve Capital, because Capital is what holds real power. It holds power over the media, the state, everything.

    The answer to how to fix this is getting workers to organize. When workers organize, they raise their social and class awareness and can accomplish far more than atomized individuals can.

  • BlackLaZoR
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    55 months ago

    Fundamental flaw of the democracy: It assumes that people know what’s the best for them

  • @VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    5 months ago

    https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about

    its not about red vs blue states. It’s About The Country Vs. The City

    A successful propaganda campaign by the owning class.

    And a quote from an anonymous mutual:

    many people will unfortunately need to learn this the hard way it seems at the expense of those who take the time to see the writing on the wall those ignorant to their exploitation will seldom listen to those who try to tell them how horribly theyre being fucked “if it were really so bad id notice” theyll say “this isnt so bad” theyll say, standing on the peak of the mountain that is dunning-kruger unknowing all we can do is wait, and watch to find out what what it is that throws them into the valley of unfathomable uncertainty in the meantime we must work for each other, for those who do see how good things could be. maybe then, our greener grass will coax them into giving us a fair listen

  • Eunie
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    85 months ago

    This question is actually pretty old. Already ancient Greek / Roman philosophers discussed this.

    Google the word ‘anacyclosis’ if you want to learn more. Alternatively here is a video link. I marked the position where the cycle explanation starts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqsBx58GxYY&t=371

  • Fubarberry
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    5 months ago

    Probably unpopular answer, but it’s not some clear cut “this political party has better policies for everyone”. Republican policies usually are better for people living in rural areas, and Democratic policies are usually better for people in cities. I’m sure people will debate this, but this is the reason why people typically vote depending on where they live. At the very least, they believe that their party has better policies for them and their way of life.

    My personal (anecdotal evidence) is that I work for a small business in a rural area, and our main customers are other small business owners (usually self employed or under 5 employees). Over the last 3 presidents, the Obama years were rough for our company, we had explosive growth during the Trump years, and then we’ve had stagnant growth over the past 4 years. Our largest competitor went out of business this past year, which sent us a lot of new customers, but we’ve also had a lot of our customers go out of business as well, so we’ve been pretty stagnant. Being stagnant isn’t terrible, we don’t have shareholders or anything, but the cost of living has increased and company profit/wages haven’t which is a problem. That said I know we’re doing pretty well compared to a lot of people here.

    Another (once again anecdotal) example is that I have a friend who paints murals full time, for the past 30ish years. He told me that he does well with either Republicans or Democrats in office, but that his customers change. During republican presidents, his customer base is usually local businesses wanting to decorate their stores. During democratic presidents, his customer base is usually towns, state buildings, schools, etc.

    But anyways, I’d be very interested to hear from some people living in cities if there’s a visible uptick in income/etc when we have a democratic president, or in general what your personal observations are on how which president affects your local businesses/income/prices/etc.

    • @Rookwood@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Obama took office during the Great Recession and rebuilt the economy. Biden took office during COVID and rebuilt the economy. (I know you’re going to try to argue with me on that, so I will just say that we recovered faster than any other developed nation before you do.) You’re kinda dense if you think that as soon as a president from another party enters office it would affect the economy so much as these events did…

      • @obbeel@lemmy.eco.br
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        -45 months ago

        I think it’s funny you call people dense when in fact they see the difference with their own eyes. Like a small business owner is making less money and people try to convince him that it has nothing to do with the elected government. I don’t think Fubar is the dense one here at all.

        • @14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          macro economy does not work like that. any complex system has inertia like an ocean-liner. you turn a wheel and it turns after 10 miles.

          seeing something is nice, but analysis of what you see is not necessarily withing the reach of “common sense”, which is why we have scientist who study the problem for all their life and professionals in their field.

          and that is why people trying to manipulate masses are trying to convince dense people not to trust the science and trust their common sense. because such gullible people can then be convinced about anything they decide to.

          also @Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz’s story reads like a really bad republican fan-fiction. “explosive growth” under trump and doom and despair under democratic president. come on, no administration has that big effect on your daily life. there are countries where it takes time to establish government after the elections and guess what, the day to day life still goes on even with no government present.

      • Fubarberry
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        15 months ago

        I started working this job after Obama had already been in office one term, so I was mainly comparing the final 4 years. I’m really glad I was still in college for the first term when the economy was really rough.

        Covid did have an undeniable effect on the economy at the start of Biden’s term, and I don’t consider that his fault or anything. It does feel like we generally haven’t really recovered from it though, gas prices finally came back down but everything else is crazy expensive still. For example, I do electrical work, and a 250’ roll of 12/2 wire went from $35 in 2019 to $140 today.

      • @tburkhol@lemmy.world
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        55 months ago

        For small businesses, a president taking power can immediately affect business. Small business owners make decisions based on their expectations of future, colored by their emotional state, so if they believe that a Republican President will be good for business, then they’re more likely to order new machinery, hire an extra person, etc. In an ecosystem of small businesses, that optimism feeds on itself.

        Happens in big business, too. S&P500 gained 3+% the day after election, which (if you don’t believe the daily stock market is just gambling) presumably means that ‘the market’ expects 3% more growth out of all those companies, just by Trump’s win being formalized. Stock price up makes it easier for companies to raise capital to expand, buy out competitors, etc

        Neither of those things is “the economy,” but they can feel like it, if you’re close enough.

        • @14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          S&P500 gained 3+% the day after election

          and considering that index gained 90% over the course of last 5 years and 700% over the last 30, that is a strong indication of… something. probably random variance 😆.

          which (if you don’t believe the daily stock market is just gambling) presumably means

          yeah, that is strong assumption 😂

  • @Sundial@lemm.ee
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    2525 months ago

    Because the rich control an overwhelming amount of the media we consume. They are capable of shaping the narrative to their benefit.

    • Snot Flickerman
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      1595 months ago

      They also successfully killed public education, so literally the citizens are too stupid to understand they’re being conned.

      • @Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world
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        745 months ago

        This is the most important part.

        And also they push religion hard which is inherently a system of control for the uneducated and exploited.

        • Snot Flickerman
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          5 months ago

          Not just control, but Christianity specifically (as well as a few others) is really good because it promises a paradise after you die.

          You can get idiot plebes to spend their whole lives dreaming about it all being better after they die, because they were pious and accepted abuse during life.

          So, control through fear and hope.

          EDIT: Also Christianity is inherently misogynistic and that’s very appealing to disaffected young men who hate that women won’t fuck them. Angry young men with no direction or group to belong to are one of the most dangerous and destabilizing groups a country can have.

          • @Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world
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            245 months ago

            Exactly. The “love thy enemy” nonsense always got me too:

            Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

            • Mathew 5:44

            Think about slavery in history. Christianity was forced upon slaves in US history. Think about current era people working horrible conditions, factories, sweatshops, whatever. What a CONVENIENT verse for the slave owners.

            Just be good, do what you’re told, don’t fight back, and love your enemy (exploiter/persecuter). If you do, promise of heaven like you said.

            But if you disobey (commit murder, dare I say of the person exploiting you), infinite and eternal torture and suffering in hell.

            Also don’t commit suicide, that’s a sin too so straight to hell if you do.

            Its just so fucking obvious.

            • @14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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              5 months ago

              What a CONVENIENT verse for the slave owners.

              reminds me of the joke that in another two thousand years, future archeologists will have no idea what is the difference between butt dial and booty call.

              and yet here we are with piece of shitty fiction written two thousand years ago, being passed in oral tradition and rewritten and retranslated multiple times, and some morons are trying to use it and force it upon others as a guideline how to live a life in 21st century…

              • @Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                It’s just as good as any modern piety. Mormons, scientology, or any other weird sect or cult that’s emerged in the last 100 years isn’t more substantial to the modern person. I do hold a special place in my heart* for the love has won people.

                *this was a joke if you are affiliated with love has won take your crazy ass mother god and stay the fuck away from me

                • @14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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                  25 months ago

                  i had to google love has won, but this is funny:

                  Leader: Amy Carlson (“Mother God”)

                  i imagine mother god must have pissed lot of people, so yay for feminism 😂

        • @Fandangalo@lemmy.world
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          05 months ago

          I was an atheist for the last 20 years and recently converted to Unitarian Universalist.

          I would say that in the west, this characterization tends to be true. But I do think there are honest faith communities acting with good intent. Unfortunately, there are few.

        • @bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
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          75 months ago

          Probably the exception to the rule. I did as well, and constantly find myself at a loss for how it simply doesn’t occur to most people to stop and think about something for a split second as opposed to just impulsively doing whatever.

        • @Dasus@lemmy.world
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          95 months ago

          “There’s no educating a smart boy.”

          — Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time (Discworld, #26)

          GNU Sir Terry

        • Snot Flickerman
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          5 months ago

          It’s more that the system itself just leaves more and more children behind, as passing kids who aren’t actually making the grade has become the norm because parents are abusive and more apt to harass/harangue and schools are pressured with funding to make sure enough kids are graduating. Teachers themselves are left with few options and there’s still bright kids, they’re just waaaaay in the minority compared to the apparently teeming masses of absolute fuckwits.

          Also, I’m in my 40’s and when I think of the quality and intelligence of the people I graduated with? Well, maybe it hasn’t gotten that much worse, actually. Because I remember thinking everyone around me was a fucking idiot, tempering that thought as I got older, but now I’ve come back full fucking circle to these people are fucking idiots, raising other idiots.

          If kids are dumb today, millennials are on the hook for it, boomers didn’t do this one.

          • @Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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            105 months ago

            Hey, not ALL millennials are on the hook for this one!

            For instance, I never found anyone to love me, and have kids with. So THERE! You can’t blame ME for idiots today!

            …but also yes. Kids in the 90s, that I went to school with were fucking idiots. Including me.

          • @bassomitron@lemmy.world
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            35 months ago

            If kids are dumb today, millennials are on the hook for it, boomers didn’t do this one.

            The bulk of older teenagers/college kids are from Gen X, not so much from millennials.

          • @SendMePhotos@lemmy.world
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            115 months ago

            I always think of the George Carlin saying…

            "imagine how stupid the average person is… then realize half of all people are stupider than that. "

    • FundMECFS
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      5 months ago

      And, social media, these days nearly as important, if not more important.

      You (very understandably) hear a lot about state-sponsored (especially Russian) astroturfing, but very little about billionaire and company sponsored astroturing, which is very much a thing.

  • @Rookwood@lemmy.world
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    105 months ago

    Propaganda. Lack of education. There’s a reason they want to defund public schools. They’re not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. :)

  • @Fighter_Moo@discuss.online
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    15 months ago

    Anger, Self-Loathing, and misguided Hate

    Anger is like a fire. They’re a useful yet dangerous tool that burns and breaks stuff. When handled correctly, fire can shine light in the dark, give warmth in the cold, cook meals for the hungry, or protect you from wolves. In other words, a well controlled Anger is good at getting work done.

    Not everyone has learned how to manage their Anger properly. Some let their Anger go too dim, making it hard to do stuff. Some redirect their Anger at themselves, out of fear of hurting others or believing they deserve it. Some let their Anger spread without a care of who it hurts, as long as it gets the job done. Some learn to concentrate their Anger into a beam of Hate, but don’t know who or what to aim the beam at.

    Going back to the question “why do people vote against their own interests?” It is Self-Loathing. It is people who are so used to having a piece of themselves set on fire by others that they start setting themselves on fire of their own volition. It is misguided Hate. It is people who know there’s a problem and want to fix it, but have been misled about the source of the problems by people who are interested in not getting targeted by Hate.

    “Why do they vote to benefit the rich?” We don’t have a choice there when either vote would have benefited the rich and powerful anyway. Just choosing between different types of benefits. Money and Power have a tendency to rise upwards, so any aid we give to those struggling at the bottom will end up benefiting those at the top anyway. But I hear ya, giving benefits to the poor and letting it rise away still beats just giving it to the rich and hoping it’ll trickle down someday.

  • @zeppo@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    They get manipulated about and distracted by certain issues. The people who want power know this and exploit topics such as guns, abortion, fear of crime, racism/nationalism, sexism, economic issues and taxes. Plenty of people vote republican because they have been convinced that Democrats will take their guns, allow in too many immigrants (with the implicit idea that immigrants are bad somehow), be worse on the economy, raise taxes, let criminals get off easy, reduce the influence of Christianity, and so forth.

    There’s also the decades of propaganda about socialism and communism, and against social safety nets as well as government and anything run by the government vs a private entity. So basically, because they’re not very aware or well informed and all themselves to be convinced by propaganda.

  • @scarabic@lemmy.world
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    15 months ago

    Because everyone thinks of themselves as a potential rich person. Or in other words: people think that being rich is the ideal state, so let’s align everything around that.

    If we truly put a yoke on the rich and contained them, we would also be reining in the smallfolks dreams.

    By contrast, rich people don’t sit around dreaming about being smallfolk and planning aspirationally for the day that will happen.

  • @DrownedRats@lemmy.world
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    295 months ago

    Because they’ve successfully been conned into thinking that what’s in the best interests of the rich is in their own best interests too.

  • @Red_October@lemmy.world
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    75 months ago

    Because they’ve been fooled into thinking it will either benefit them, or benefit people they feel “deserve it.”