This is a genuine question.
I have a hard time with this. My righteous side wants him to face an appropriate sentence, but my pessimistic side thinks this might have set a great example for CEOs to always maintain a level of humanity or face unforseen consequences.
P.S. this topic is highly controversial and I want actual opinions so let’s be civil.
And if you’re a mod, delete this if the post is inappropriate or if it gets too heated.
If he gets caught, then I’d say yes. Murder should be treated as murder regardless of what the reason is. Making exceptions is never a good idea.
I just hope he doesn’t get caught.
Then all of the healthcare companies that allow people to die because they will not cover them need to be prosecuted, every executive, every decision maker.
Trinity: what is he doing?
Morpheus: he’s beginning to believe…
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
Exactly. :)
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid “dens of crime” that Dickens loved to paint. It is not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice.
CS Lewis - Screwtape Letters (preface)
Population Health needs a regulated definition.
I’ll take that trade
Brian Thompson and his co-workers murder hundreds of thousands of people with systemic neglect, spreadsheets, and lawyers. They murder in broad daylight, during business hours. And yet they’re comfortable, well paid, successful people who will never see a day in jail. What they’re doing isn’t even considered a crime.
I hope he doesn’t get caught, also. Because the same laws that protect those fucking ghouls will crush him for bringing attention to the grift.
Like I said, making exceptions is always a bad idea. It’s how these fuck heads even get away with it. But at the same time I can’t agree with exceptions even if I agree with the reason behind it.
The point is that there are already exceptions.
Which is bad, and needs attention.
This IS the attention.
From whom?
Like, all of humanity in the US?
they’re comfortable, well paid, successful people who will never see a day in jail.
They also run the risk of getting assassinated by the people who they have exploited, so we’ll see how comfortable they remain in the future.
I’m confident that someone will get caught and be made into an example.
Whether they were the one that actually did it is immaterial.
Making exceptions is never a good idea.
Why not? The whole reason we have judicial discretion is that every crime departs from the platonic ideal in one way or another.
The working class has been losing a class war for decades without ever properly noticing that it was happening. Working Americans have been dying in that war, and now someone struck back.
I’ll be sold on the “no exceptions” ideal when we haul in the corporate murderers alongside the people who fought back.
Jury nullification is the other acceptable option.
Yeah, that’s kinda my point. The system is fucked beyond repair specifically because these people running the companies get exceptions. These people have basically let thousands of people die for the sake of money. So like I said before, murder is murder and should be treated as such.
Given the perspective you described, I would consider the actions of the company to be systematic mass murder who the legal system fails to stop, and the actions of the shooter to be community defense against a mass murderer. They’re certainly not equivalent, and I don’t see what the benefit is of treating that defense equally to even one callous for-profit murder.
The problem isn’t that exceptions are made and therefore all crimes should be treated in an ignorant vacuum. The problem is that the idealist legal system doesn’t even consider indirect suffering as the violence it is, because the legal system is ultimately beholden to the power of capital (money buys politicians and the media power to make them win, politicians write laws).
Sounded like self-defense to me.
I just hope he doesn’t get caught.
he will get caught. they already have his photo, he is not professional hitman, he can only evade for so long when there is the whole country’s law enforcement after him.
Except the photo they have of him with his face visible isn’t even the same guy. Doesn’t even have the same clothes or backpack. So unless this dude is proficient at changing his clothes and ditching a backpack all while riding an electric scooter down the street in New York, then they have the wrong guy in that photo.
wtf are you talking about? they have multiple photos and it is obviously the same person
The multiple photos with a face showing, has a different coat, hood, and backpack. Go look again.
can you link what you mean?
Sure thing:
https://sh.itjust.works/post/29120957
The hoods don’t even match. And the backpacks are different too, one had light gray straps, the other is black. And basically 50% of NYC dudes carry black backpacks.
you do understand that these photos are from different place and different time, right?
the black backpack seems more like some shoulder duffel bag to me i assume it is from the hostel checkin. people don’t travel around the city with the same luggage they used for inter-city travel.
people also can have different clothes for different occasion, like putting on some light rain or wind-proof jacket. it can also be shitty compression from some shitty camera.
it is the same person ffs, look at his face, that nose could have passport of its own.
I hear and understand your point, and I can’t say that I disagree with it.
That being said, I sure as hell wouldn’t convict the guy.
2 or so years ago I’d have agreed with you.
But it’s become clear that the wealthy and powerful are beyond the reach of our justice system. coughdementedfeloninthewhitehousecough
So fuck 'em.
I understand why they will prosecute him if they catch him, but I wish for him to never get caught, and I feel really confident (given the other signs of planning) that the phone, water bottle, and very public appearance at Starbucks in recognizable clothing are nothing but a red herring.
🎵🎶 jury nullification 🎵🎶
I am not from the US. How many jurors are there in the trial? And don’t they have to all agree? There would definitely be at least one bootlicker or paid off person.
Twelve. Pretty sure one can hang the jury. In that case they’d probably retry him. All 12 would have to agree to aquit.
Correct. Jury trials in the US need unanimity from the 12 jurors to either establish guilt or innocence. Anything other than unanimity is a hung jury. Source: I’ve been a member of two juries that went to trial and reached unanimity. Also, be aware that a single juror holding out against the other jurors will go through intense pressure to adopt the prevailing opinion. The other jurors will be pissed that that one person is prolonging the process by days, especially when the judge keeps sending them back to keep deliberating and hopefully reach a unanimous decision. Jury nullification should not be taken lightly as it’s not a walk in the park.
I think it’s 6-12 jurors (although it tends to be on the higher end because of dicta from the supreme court)
or I’m missing something
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-6/size-of-the-jury
Unanimity is true though. One stubborn juror can cause a mistrial which means the case gets a new trial.
12 angry (wo)men
This is a good question from the wrong angle. This event is cathartic for many people because the ultra rich who ruin countless lives never get punished. When they see “consequences” it’s a golden parachute. This event is frustrating because the media, legal, and security apparatuses expect us to treat this assassination as a grave act, but actively normalize the acts of harm Thompson and other leaders like him commit every day.
This event is revealing in stark terms the divide between the elite and the average person. Should murderers be prosecuted? Sure - in a world where justice and the rule of law matter for everyone equally. Doesn’t feel like we live in that world.
If murderers got prosecuted equally this CEO should have had a day in court years ago.
He’s been climbing the ladder at United for 20 years. Many years ago indeed.
Do you want to see the people who killed Osama Bin Laden prosecuted?
Because the United Heath CEO killed far more people, including many more children, than Bin Laden did on 9/11.Maybe get a fine for .0005% of their net worth. You know, so they don’t do it again.
That’s how it works, right?
Prosecution is required since otherwise it would set a precedent for revenge killings, but holy shit even serial killers did less harm than this one person
If he’s caught we should elect him president so he doesn’t have to go to jail.
From an idealist perspective, yes. I want to be able to believe that the law holds everyone equally accountable and no one should be above it.
However from my current realistic position, I know damn well as do we all that they law already doesn’t hold everyone equally accountable – not even close. And the fact that the deceased made a living doing what he did is just exhibit A on a very, very long list of examples. The rule of law has clearly already broken down, which means all bets are off. The fact that it’s been doing so slowly over the course of decades rather than in a single coup or hypothetical night of broken glass is completely irrelevant.
Furthermore, even if the shooter is prosecuted I feel that “this was clearly in the best interest of society as a whole given the harm that the deceased was still actively inflicting on thousands of people” should be a valid legal defense.
Most jurisdictions already allow for the use of deadly force in defense of yourself or others against a perpetrator who represents a clear and present danger to the safety, health, or lives of others. This is just that, but with an extra logical extension riveted on.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
Or something
The ceo was a bad dude,
But murdering people isn’t cool.
Trump said he could murder a guy on Fifth Avenue,
Maybe this guy can murder a guy on Sixth Avenue.
🤷♂️
Edit: if he is some crazy cereal killer then I guess he has to get away with it the first time?
No! But we could slice the CEO into small pieces… Accidentally… And accidentally drop the pieces in resin and sell them on eBay? Then when you go in for a healthcare review, you come in wearing the pendant… “Oh this? Its the tip of his penis! I paid $300 for it, it was cheap!”
I believe wrongdoers deserve justice no matter where it comes from. The law is supposed to be a way to achieve that, but if it ceases to achieve that purpose then to hell with it; I prefer incivil justice over civil injustice.
No, I hope they never find him.
You’re asking the wrong question.
This is a story about two people. One committed an enormous act of violence and another person shot that person.
The question is: should the CEO have been prosecuted for his violent crimes?
removed by mod
That’s a horrible attitude.
Killing monsters who harm and kill en masse is a bad attitude?
He didn’t kill anyone.
Yes, hell yes.
Get this man in a court room. Let the prosecutors spend weeks trying to find a jury where no one (or any of their relatives and friends) has been fucked over for life because of shitty insurance.
Let them talk about how unstoppable, determined, and committed the defendant was.
And then have the jury nullify the case.
It would be a good day to be alive.
