They’re like that in this apartment we’re renting and I keep seeing them elsewhere. I don’t get it.
I like them, personally. You don’t have to use them but they are sometimes handy. I just spent 30 seconds feeling around a TV to turn it off only to discover it doesn’t have buttons. Killed it at the wall.
It’s not a deal breaker, in any case. The weird foreign convention I would like to shame is doors that require a key to open from the inside.
I usually see keyed from the inside locks when there is glass in/near the door to prevent someone from breaking the glass, reaching in and unlocking the door.
Can’t that be prevented by safety glass instead? Doors that need a key to open from the inside risk trapping people inside the building.
If a burger is gonna break the glass, a keyed lock isn’t going to deter them. Unless it’s like only a tiny glass window on the door.
If a burger is going to break the glass, it’s either really bad glass or a really bad burger.
I stand by what I said.
I just spent 30 seconds feeling around a TV to turn it off only to discover it doesn’t have buttons.
Ugh. That annoys the shit out of me. Our dog chewed up the TV remote when she was a puppy, but only got to the power button. But since the TV had no physical buttons, we couldn’t turn it on and off anymore until we got a new remote.
I have an old android phone I keep around because it has an IR LED on top and I loaded it with a few free universal remote apps. They all work offline and it’s come in handy so many times.
Some new models also still include ir blasters. Good stuff
The weird foreign convention I would like to shame is doors that require a key to open from the inside
You can’t lock yourself out with those
You can burn to death, though.
But you can lock yourself in. During a house fire.
You can lock yourself in with the other type too.
No you can’t. You can lock yourself out, but a typical residential house built to code in North America has a latch handle that always turns from the inside, even when locked, and usually unlocks by doing so to prevent accidental lock-outs. And likewise if the door has a deadbolt, it must have a deadbolt with a handle on the inside. Most other kinds of locks are also easily accessible and removed by hand from the inside. The point is that they can’t require a key from the inside, because if you can’t find the key then you are locked inside and in thick smoke and fire that the key may be impossible to reach. If any egress door requires a key to unlock from the inside it is considered a serious fire hazard and will never pass a code inspection. (Of course, foolish people can still add them later but you can’t prevent stupid and it’s still a fire hazard not to mention impractical)
These types of building code and fire code rules are typically written in blood. People have died because of this.
All house doors/egress doors in Brazil require keys to unlock. BUT (and it’s a big but) most houses here are made of bricks, with ceramic roofs.
It does make sense to have easy-to-escape houses when they are built of flammable materials with an accelerant for a roof.
The weird foreign convention I would like to shame is doors that require a key to open from the inside.
Huh. Where have you seen those? Seems dangerous.
They’re used where there are windows close enough that, if broken by an intruder, the intruder would be able to operate the lock.
The better solution is, of course, to not use such doors.
We mostly just leave the key in them unless I’m going on holiday.
If somebody is going to steal my stuff while I’m away, I’m going to make them work for it.
This is virtually standard in Australia
It is standard in NZ
Depending on who built the house, it’s the standard for a “good” house in Ghana, Nigeria, Zambia and I think Kenya.
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the UK power grid is weird. mostly due to echoes of the war. used to be that, to save copper, the entire house and sometimes multiple houses on a street would be wired as one big loop of wire, no fuse box or anything. that’s where the individually fused plugs and switched sockets come from. then, since it turned out to be quite a good idea for safety, they kept doing it.
eastern block solution to copper shortages was to wire houses with aluminum instead of copper. this avoided all that bizarre bullshit that brits do, and in principle it’s a good idea since aluminum is used for big time power distribution as well. this worked pretty well until it was noticed that under some conditions hot spots can form on connections over time, requiring replacement of connectors. it’s still legal to use aluminum wires in some places, but copper is more common now
This isn’t strictly true. Most houses built between WWII and the '90s were built with sockets that didn’t have switches on them. It was only later safety regulations / suggestions that made the switches preferable.
Where I live was built in the late '80s right before switched sockets became more common. All the original sockets have no switch. Some in the kitchen have switches, but it’s clear these were added at a later date.
I’m not sure of the exact rulings and where and when a socket must have a switch, but you can still find switchless sockets for sale at the sorts of retailers who sell those sorts of things, so there are definitely places where those sockets are still allowed.
The old Ring Circuit
So that switch will trip like a breaker?
No - there’s fuses in the plugs themselves, the switch is largely for convenience and safety - if you want to unplug something broken and potentially live, it’s much safer to switch it off at the wall than risk a shock given the current limit is on the breaker is so high
Where I live we would just turn off the breaker for that part of the house
Are folks able to replace the fuses without exposing live parts? I totally get the safety angle.
The screw to get to it is supposed to be on the side that would be facing the wall when plugged in so no
fuse is in plug and accessible only when plug is disconnected
it’s also a very weird thing because fuses are supposed to protect what is downstream of them. so effectively fuse in plug protects cord and appliance only, not the wires in the wall. there’s breaker box for this
Whoa. Thanks all!
It is safer for the fuse to be in the plug for those people who think they are electricians and end up causing house fires or bzzzt’ing themselves
i understand that it’s remnant from times when fusebox wasn’t a thing and it was an attempt at protecting ring circuit, that’s all. it makes little sense
When I bought the apartment I’m living in, the previous owner had refused all modernisation, even legal ones (he had mental problems), so the appartment had the original 1 hot wire going everywhere, you just “tapped” off power where you wanted to to ground. 1959 era.
Sorry but I’m going to need a source on that because there is no evidence of that being the reason UK plug sockets have switches
Other countries have switches on their sockets, Australia being one because I live here
Switches on sockets do make a ton on sense though for safety reasons for example if you need to quickly isolate electricity from the switch and the breaker hasn’t done anything
Switches also prevent arcing when you pull out a plug if an appliance doesn’t have an off switch and you can switch something off that you use commonly say a kettle but don’t unplug because you use it commonly so theirs less chance of an electrical fault happening while no one is there and its also the same reason I’ll demand an isolation switch be installed on electric stoves just incase the dail on the stove fails and the stove turns on
looking for a source is not hard. anyone can do it.
switches are not required by the bs1363 standard. the provision for them only arrived in the 1960s. there.
This is the answer. When all sockets are connected to one big loop, there’s fuses in each socket to prevent a device from screwing with the whole system.
Why are people saying this?
I’ve lived in multiple UK houses and never once seen a socket with a fuse. Are you saying this was change way way back in the day?
All houses have fuse boxes (which then got upgraded to circuit breakers). Not one fuses in sockets. Would be a fucking nightmare to take the socket off and change a fuse.
The fuse is actually in the UK plug (the big brick-like thing with the wire on it), not the socket. But yes, it’s a thing, and most of the rest of the world considers it overkill. Also a lot of cheap junky equipment (ironically the stuff where you’d most want the fuse) omits the fuse in the plug, go figure.
Yea I know, I’ve wired a plug.
Never seen a fuse in a socket though. That comment is completely wrong and yet it’s the most up voted reply.
Never seen a house without a fuse box either.
Didn’t the uk used to have appliances without plugs that you’d need to wire yourself If inrecalling that Tom Scott video correctly
Yes. I believe that’s true but I’ve never done it myself.
No fuses in the switch box though, it’s a box of circuits breakers
Yea I know, I said that.
People still call them fuse boxes though.
I am not sure if I mispoke or misread. Apologies for implying ignorance, I just wanted to dump my mind
The used to be - I had a flat that used an old style fused breaker. Fun times trying to replace a fuse when it had blown…
Lol yeah can only imagine what playing ‘hunt the bad device’ would’ve been like back when those boxes had actual fuses on them. (That’s the game where the main circuit breaker gets tripped and you have to figure out first what ring it’s on, and then which specific item is tripping it)
sloppy wording, i meant “switched sockets and fused plugs”.
All plug points in India also have (regular sized, not these tiny ones) switches to control them
Huh, it’s interesting- Here the power switches are a similar size to the UK, so when I searched up a picture of the Indian switches I thought they were ridiculously giant, not like regular sized UK/Australian ones
I guess it’s just whatever you’re used to is the ‘regular’.
Are light switches the same? What happens when you have a lot of switches together, like six or eight? Do you just have really wide banks of switches?
Yeah there are cases where you have to take a sharpie or a label to know which ones are which when there are too many switches all setup together
They usually look like this though
The one closest to the plug point controls it
So we can turn the power on and off.
Why else would you have a switch next to a power socket?
Why can’t you just unplug it? If you have to go to the socket anyway… maybe I don’t understand because I’ve never lived with the convenience?
It’s easier to flip the switch to turn it back on than to fumble with the plug. You can get a variant without the switches if you don’t like, or simply leave the switch always on.
Lots of wall warts suck down 5w unused. I could see this being nice
Depends on the device.
Something like a vacuum, sure. You’re probably going to move it around anyway.
But I used to have a Spectrum computer, and it had no power switch. If you plugged it in then it was just on. Much simpler to power off at the switch than unplug it and risk the plug falling down the back of the table into a rats nest of cables.
Plus I guess it’s one more step a toddler needs to do to electrocute themselves…
But I used to have a Spectrum computer, and it had no power switch. If you plugged it in then it was just on
Something I’ve learned talking to my bri’ish friends online over the years: this happens to you guys because you have those switches. I cannot think of anything I’ve bought in the US that didn’t have its own power control for when it’s plugged into the wall (unless it’s something silly that I made or, for whatever fucking reason, Christmas lights and ONLY Christmas lights as every other decorative string light I own has a switch)
Nvidia Shield has no switch either. If it crashes (and Disney+ is the main culprit causing that, along with full 4K Blu-ray rips on Jellyfin) you have to pull the power cable on it.
Even if you unplug it, the socket is still live at more than 200 V.
Maybe this was meant to be a joke, but that’s not how it works. If it were the switch would also not do anything, because what the switch does is exactly the same as unplugging the thing, i.e. cut a piece of the wire out.
Edit: unless you meant for safety reasons, in which case the shutter inside is a lot safer than the button.
A switch shuts the supply to the socket. Even after unplugging the socket does have electric supply, i.e. it is live. If any metallic object is inserted into the live socket it can give you a worse shock. Since the voltage supply in UK is 220V not 110V.
Shutter inside is much safer than button but is slightly costlier.
The real question is why did the UK decide that on the outlet itself is the best place for that switch, as opposed to e.g. in the US where outlets are sometimes wired to a switch located next to the door to the room?
So you don’t get confused which outlet the switch turns off.
Having a switch next to the door would be useful if you’re using that socket for a lamp but not if you’re using them for anything else. In my kitchen the sockets for my under counter oven and fridge are under the counter and the switches are above it so I can easily access them.
Having a switch next to the door would be useful if you’re using that socket for a lamp
That is specifically what switched outlets in north America are intended to be used for.
Switches located next to the door are for lighting, as opposed to switches on the socket which mean you can fully turn off your rice cooker without unplugging it. We do sometimes have sockets in the UK with the switch at the door, but they are usually a different shape socket that is designed for a lower current and is only intended to be used for floor lamps.
- Okay, that makes sense.
- Wait, your lamps use a different plug? That seems needlessly limiting/inconvenient.
The specific-plugs-for-lamps think is very rare these days. The reason for it is that it’s not uncommon for our plugs to be on a high amperage circuit - sometimes 30A, occasionally higher - that can’t be safely controlled with a light switch or similar, so the lamp-only circuit will be capped at, say, 3A with unusual plugs to avoid someone trying to connect a tumble dryer.
Do you have individual switches for each plug socket / outlet wired next to the door? That seems like it would take a lot of wiring, and need a lot of switches.
The room I’m currently in has six double sockets spread out around the room. They each have one switch per socket like in the post’s image. If they were wired back to the door, they would need a lot more wiring, and one of the two entrance doors would have to be chosen. You’d then have to walk to that door every time you wanted to turn something off.
It seems like a lot more work for no real benefit.
Do you have individual switches for each plug socket / outlet wired next to the door?
No, the rooms I’ve seen wired with lamp circuits would typically have one switch next to the entrance with several outlets wired together to it in the same circuit, along with another circuit of several unswitched outlets. Flipping that one switch would turn all the lamps on at once.
(More rarely, there might be two lamp circuits in a room, with two switches controlling two groups of outlets. I think my parents’ formal living room might be like that, but we barely used it and I haven’t lived there for 20 years, so I can’t quite remember.)
and one of the two entrance doors would have to be chosen. You’d then have to walk to that door every time you wanted to turn something off.
Nah, that’s what three-way switches are for: you can have a switch at each entrance that controls the same group of outlets.
Most of the places in the world I have been to do without them, or at least did when I was there, so it confused me. But some people have given good explanations now.
Open one up. There’s also a fuse connected to the live wire. The amperage is dependent on the normal draw of the appliance. Just added safety features. Also the live and neutral holes only open up if you put the earth in first (that’s why it’s longer). British plugs are arguably the safest… Unless you leave them prongs up and step on it accidentally. That makes stepping on Lego feel like a shag carpet.
It seems a bit overengineered for little gain compared to good old schuko imo
You were down voted for whatever reason. These outlets are complete bullshit. You have your safeties in the electrical cabinet and then you make sure to wire your house according to certain standards. Schuko is leagues ahead of this crap. Modern Schuko sockets will only allow anything to enter, when both prongs are inserted at the same time. If you do happen to short anything, the FI switch (no idea what it’s called in English) will cut the power before anything can happen.
for anyone reading: FI -> RCD
Great for turning off a device or several devices without having to unplug (e.g. if the sockets are behind a bookcase, this is much more convenient). Not a super common need but when it saves moving furniture it helps. Given that UK switches are tougher to plug in and unplug than most (due to safety features), I prefer using a switch. Also, the switches are cheap and give more options, so may as well!
I rely on one for a light where the switch broke and wasn’t easily replaceable, so being able to fall back on the mains switch meant I can keep using the light.
It’s not about having a switch it’s about having the switch right next to the plug instead of next to the doorway (where it usually is in the US)
You have a switch for your electrical sockets by your door? What a weird place to put them all.
We have our light switches by the door. Much more useful.
It’s common in the U.S., especially in apartments, to have rooms with no light fixtures. Instead, there will be one outlet that is wired to a switch by the door. That outlet is sometimes upside down to distinguish it from the other outlets. That gives you the option to connect a lamp to the switch to get the same result as having a light fixture. I would generally prefer that every room has a light fixture on the ceiling, but this is marginally better than having to walk across a dark room to turn on a lamp.
Huh, TIL.
Here in Australia every house I’ve been in that has an electrical connection has had a light of some form mounted on the ceiling of each room of the main structure.
It just shows how any assumptions we might make will be proved wrong at a global scale.
As I understand it (thanks technology connections), the sockets linked to light switches are made that way in case you want to have like a floor or desk lamp and turn it on when you enter the room
I mean there can be either outlets or light fixtures connected to them, generally the switched outlets have lamps plugged in though.
And we have that too.
We are talking about standard sockets, they all have off switches on the socket.
Being a uk person its cause they can & its also in to building / electric code. Its just a switch that breaks the live leg, stops sparking when plugging in stuff.
Your sockets spark when you plug something in?
I’ve definitely had that happen to me, sort of at random, in the U.S.
But it doesn’t seem to have any effect. It’s not like a gigantic spark and it’s pretty contained.
Oh I’ve never seen that in the US, maybe I just didn’t notice
Home electricity in North America has roughly half the voltage as elsewhere in the world, and double the voltage is double the arcing potential, so that figures.
Laptop power bricks is probably where I see it most. Or if you plug in something with a motor already switched on. Listen for a soft popping noise if you plug in a big power brick.
You’re right, now that I think about it. Laptop power does it more than anything else.
Many, many big power-smoothing capacitors inside those jumping from 0 to 120V in a microsecond, that’s why. The better-smoothed the power supply, the more capacitors and the bigger the sparks tend to be, although some really high quality ones put most of them behind inrush-current limiters to reduce the sparking, but that can also marginally reduce efficiency. High power electronics are always a bit of a tradeoff. The problem is that capacitors charge and discharge almost instantly in most cases, and when empty they act like a short circuit until they’re filled, so they can create some pretty big sparks, even though the actual energy going in is minuscule by any reasonable measurement. It’s almost like a static shock, huge spark, tiny energy.
Some motors will also spark badly when disconnected, but the reason is slightly different. They have a huge electromagnetic field which suddenly fills or collapses and that inductance in the coils can draw a lot of amps on startup and generate some pretty high voltages, more than enough to spark across the gap. Like the capacitors, they are very nearly a short circuit until they start moving.
Ah, this is fantastic. I learned some stuff, thank you.
No, unless something is very wrong. I don’t know if that was maybe a bigger problem with older devices though. I remember being taught to turn the socket off before plugging things in or taking them out when I was a kid
All will if there is a load. Doesn’t matter ac of dc or even load. Plug an ethernet cable in and there will be a spark.
Most of the time the spark is tiny and you need a good lab to measure it though.
To turn things on and off.
Big if true.
Massive if correct
Large if accurate
Wee if wrong
I remember when I was young and bending down all the time was a thing you could do painlessly. Ah, youth.
Have you tried using your toes?
You can use your toes for switches.
Not when there are no switches and you have to pull out the plug everytime you want to switch off the appliance.
I can still bend down ok, but getting back up off my knees however….
Smart plugs are awesome!
Everything you’d want to know about British wiring and my introduction to Tom Scott:
Not positive but those could be GFI outlets.
That’s what I thought at first, but it’s literally every socket in this building both inside the apartment and outside in the hallways, and I keep seeing it in other buildings too.
Yup, they are the standard.
Would be fun to see some stories about you discovering things in the UK and how they are so different than in the US!
I am doing that, but I’m sort of putting them in appropriate threads. Otherwise I’d be writing a novel. Or I suppose creating a Flying Squid in Britain community. Maybe if I get less exhausted at some point I’ll post something long.
All modern wiring in the UK has every socket in the building connected via RCD (the more common name for GFCI outside America), but they’re usually in the main fusebox/consumer unit rather than individually per socket. These are just normal on/off switches for the convenience of being able to turn things on and off.
That’s a convenience we could all use, pretty crafty!
Saw a video of how the Japanese wire their panel’s and thought it was pretty genius.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqClY6PDCW0
Is it similar across the pond? Or is it like here where you can GFCI the panel through a breaker?
Safety, easier to switch things off without unplugging them. Why not have one if it’s more convenient? Not all of them have switches though.
It made a lot more sense when things didn’t have their own power switches but…what does that apply to anymore? How many devices do you own that are powered off exclusively by unplugging it? Why pay for the manufacturing time and material to add a switch if nothing uses it anymore?
There are still times where it’s convenient. I have some display cases with integrated lighting and the inline switches are incoveniently between the case and the wall so its super handy to turn it on and off at the plug.
Being able to turn things off at the plug also reduces standby/phantom power when things are in sleep, which for some devices adds up more energy usage than you’d think.
Sometimes when people go on holiday for two weeks they like to disconnect the electrical items in their house for safety. With switched sockets you can just turn them off instead.
I’m sure I could live just fine without switched sockets, but it’s convenient they are there.
Ah, now all of that makes sense! Thank you!
Fridge, washing machine, dishwasher, television, phone charger, robovac dock, lamps, computer monitor, aquarium pump… I could go on.
It’s not strictly necessary, but it’s a convenience.
Most of those have power buttons and, aside from the charger and vacuum, those things are supposed to stay on.
I meant more things like lamps that you actually turn on and off…And the majority lamps have switches nowadays, I’m not sure why you included it on your list
We’re getting into the weeds a little bit here, but there’s a lot of things that have power buttons that will put the thing into standby, not off. I’ve often done a ‘hard reset’ on my ‘smart’ tv when it starts acting up, just gotta cut the power.
It’s a small convenience, but it’s nice. I’ll happily pay the extra three cents in manufacturing costs for something that lasts decades and may be occasionally mildly helpful.
That’s to make up for how incredibly dangerous they are. /joke
at least in part it’s an end result of decades of crud and tech debt, so to speak, accumulating in british power grid and home wiring. they do it this way because otherwise it won’t be safe. continental euro home wiring usually has thicker wires, residual-current circuit breakers and no ring circuits so we get away without fuzes and switches, and with smaller plugs that don’t become caltrops. sometimes we do have ring circuits kind of thing, but not in house wiring, instead it’s in medium voltage distribution grid, and it’s sized so that it can serve most of loads after single failure.
explanation
in normal state, medium voltage line (like 15kV, 20kV) might branch out in rural terrain from substation to two or more places. in case of single failure, mildly common after storms, everything downstream would be down. instead, to increase reliability, every few km there’s a radio-controlled switch and some of the far ends have line between them that is usually disconnected. in case of single failure, damaged segment is cut off, and the far end of the loop switch gets closed. this way power is delivered the long way around the loop, allowing for repairs of the damaged sector in the meantime. this also specifically avoids some of problems of ring circuits especially in situation when some lines might be damaged.
“so many”?
isn’t it all of them?
i live in malta, we inherited your plugs and sockets. Never seen one without a switch over here. Til
No not all of them.
Source, I was born here.
All of them in the UK.
I present to you my favorite YouTube person:
The GFCI/RCD, a simple but life saving protector:
https://youtu.be/ILBjnZq0n8s?list=PLv0jwu7G_DFU62mIGZNag5vQ0a6tDGBpO
In defense of the Switched Outlet:
Electrical topics playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv0jwu7G_DFU62mIGZNag5vQ0a6tDGBpO
I could just watch this guy all day lol
A fellow human of great and distinguished taste I see
I expected Technology Connections or ElectroBOOM, was not disappointed.
One teaches what to do, the other teaches what not to do.
ElectroBOOM keeps me alive sometimes, and Technology Connections told me how to properly use a dishwasher.
