- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
My North-East facing balcony doesn’t get enough sun light. But it’s an interesting idea.
The relentless march of sustainable cosplay continues. A million Germans clinging to plasticky solar trinkets like rosary beads against energy insecurity—how very on-brand for a nation that dismantled nuclear plants to cozy up with Putin’s pipelines. Nothing screams “green revolution” like propping up coal while bureaucrats hyperventilate over balcony wattage permits.
But sure, let’s pretend these glorified battery chargers absolve collective guilt. Social media’s latest performative ritual—slap a panel on your railing, flood Instagram with hashtags, ignore the 14-month waiting list for certified installers. Peak late-stage decarbonization theater: all aesthetics, no grid.
At least it’s honest. We’ve stopped pretending policy can fix anything. Why demand competent governance when you can DIY your dystopia?
how very on-brand for a nation that dismantled nuclear plants to cozy up with Putin’s pipelines.
classic german meme, to be fair, they do actually have some pretty decent renewable production, they just really shot themselves in the foot while hiking up a mountain with that move.
Germany’s energy transition is a masterclass in contradictions. Dismantling nuclear plants—clean, reliable, and efficient—only to lean on Russian gas and coal is not just shortsighted but self-sabotaging. The Energiewende, while ambitious, has exposed Germany to geopolitical vulnerabilities and grid instability. Renewable expansion is commendable but insufficient without robust infrastructure and energy storage.
The reliance on balcony solar panels and rooftop systems reeks of performative sustainability. These micro-solutions barely scratch the surface of Germany’s energy needs yet are paraded as revolutionary. Meanwhile, bureaucratic inertia delays large-scale renewable projects.
The nuclear phase-out, driven by political expediency rather than pragmatism, left an energy vacuum filled by fossil fuels. A true green transition demands realism: embrace nuclear, bolster renewables, and stop romanticizing half-measures.
i still think the green party is nothing but a meme and should be completely abolished, just fucks up the voting outcomes.
Nuclear as clean? Now that’s loco talk.
it literally is clean, the only dirty thing about it is building a nuclear plant, and the mining of uranium, the only unique thing here being the mining of uranium, and technically the scale of construction, but im still not convinced that a nuclear plant produces more CO2 in construction phase, than it will offset in it’s lifetime, maybe solar and wind edge it out, but again, nuclear energy already exists, it’s a heavily established industry and well regulated, so it’s not like it should be the first focus on the chopping block. Especially compared to all the modern problems we have with solar, like the rare earth metals, and mining conditions often experienced. Wind turbines are better, but have issues with scaling, and waste.
The destructiveness of mining uranium, the toxic cooling water, spend radioactive fuel rods and contaminated machinery.
Real clean…
destruction of uranium mining is far less than the mining of rare earth metals, coal, oil, gas, iron, copper, bauxite, can i keep going? You need VASTLY less uranium than ANY of these other materials. It’s quite literally a non concern at scale.
the toxic cooling water
you clearly understand nothing about nuclear power, Do you live next/nearby a nuclear power plant? If so can you tell me what plant it is so i can do some research on it? Even if i grant you this argument, in the BWR design, which is ancient and hasnt been used in 20 years, which is technically going to have radiation products in the primary turbine loop (the cooling loop is mechanically isolated and has ZERO radiation products in it, unless it fails, and even if it DID fail, it would decay so quickly the chance of it causing harm is going to be almost zero, not to mention that the plant would probably shut down very quickly.
If we’re talking modern reactor designs, like the PWR, they have a primary pressurized loop, which is going to have radiation products in it, however this is also a pressurized loop and unsuitable for running a turbine, so it’s going to be coupled to a heat exchanger for the turbine loop, which is then also going to be coupled to another heat exchanger so the chances of BOTH of these loops failing and releasing radiation products is quite literally, impossible. Even TMI had zero known radiation products released, there have been groups and studies claiming that there was, but those were not suitably backed up, and provide no significant proof, there’s also tons of evidence against these claims, notably the reactor PCV wasn’t penetrated, meaning it was entirely contained, so it’s extremely unlikely any amount of radiation got outside of that containment, and if we did, we would know about.
Fukushima is probably the go to point out here, but fukushima was a BWR reactor, and uh, fucking exploded. I only know of three nuclear incidents where reactors exploded, one being chernobyl, an objectively bad reactor core design, SL1 which was user error, and a bad design. And well, fukushima, which was user error, bad design, bad regulation, and bad handling. TMI just melted, so nothing funny happened there.
little bonus tidbit here, if we’re talking modern designs, which are going to be either gas or metal/salt cooling based, where it’s practically impossible to have a significant failure event, especially with designs like the SSR. Even if you did manage to spill metal/salt fuel it’s going to be self contained within the fuel itself. The SSR design takes this one step farther and puts the fuel into fuel rods, which then sit in a salt pool.
spend radioactive fuel rods
these are only a problem for certain reactor designs, designs like the CANDU reactor, and other fast reactor designs (any molten salt/metal reactor is by definition a fast reactor btw) can actually burn the spent waste from PWR designs as fuel, bringing it down to a much safer less significant point in the product chain, by that point encasing them in concrete is going to entirely absorb all of the radiation emitted, and any sort of criticality incident is going to be impossible. And if you’re REALLY concerned about these casks, go put them far underground in a big deep hole.
contaminated machinery.
we’ve literally been working with this shit since nuclear bombs, contamination is quite literally a solved problem, some reactor designs even burn straight unprocessed uranium, though the after products are particularly nasty, those can also be burnt off
Real clean…
compared to something like coal? Absolutely, even when comparing to the fabled wind and solar energy, it’s still right up beside them in terms of the rankings. Nuclear power is only bad if you’re scared of it.
Are you under the impression that the people buying solar for themselves are against sustainable energy solutions on a state level?
For first few seconds, I deadass though they are talking about Germans with a height of 1,5 meters.
Only Germans this high have balcony solar
Makes sense, taller Germans throw too much of a shadow to make the solar worth it.
deleted by creator
That was me.
So why won’t taller Germans get solar? I don’t even see the connection to height… Oh, maybe they hit their heads on the panels? No, that doesn’t seem likely… I don’t get it.
Read it as germans who are 1.5 meter tall, wondered why them being short is relevant.
That pic is great, haha. Woman looks so smug.
That’s 4’ 11" - I had no idea Germans were so short.
I wonder why only those people have balcony solar. Why aren’t other Germans interested?
First the trans people come for my energy, then they come for my trains? When will the madness end? Won’t someone think of the children!
Nobody else found it odd that these solar installations are just flying away?
Isn’t wind energy better on balconies?
Doubt it. Wind around buildings tends to be shit.
There’s a reason they build turbines on hilltops and out at sea.
If everyone puts wind turbines on the balconies they might end up blowing the building over
Hmm no,
- first oft all: noise. Wind turbines have moving parts, that attached to a building or even worse attached to a balcony creates noise in the whole building. Imagine the rattling of 5-6 ~10 year old, bad maintained, wind turbines.
- Second: the energy output is rather low. A 1,2KW turbine is about 1.2m/3.9feet big. That’s in spherical, cause it has to be able to rotate by wind direction.
- Third: balconies are preferred to not have wind, but sun.
- And last but not least: blades. Every windturbine form factor has (fast) moving blades. If it’s reachable someone is going to stick a finger in it.
If you’re living more suburban and have a windy detached place to setup a small windturbine that’s an option. On the garage or shed for example.
Sadly really small wind turbines are really ineffective and not worth the investment until you have a really windy balcony. If you only have a few square meters solar is the only choice.
But I’d still love to have a small windmill in my garden.
This article is more than 1 month old
Oh no! Quick! To the incinerator!
Germans also have 7 times the power bill
I blame Bavaria. If Germany had multiple price zones like other European countries instead of one giant one prices would plummet here in the north, while they’d explode in Bavaria. The state that does not want wind power, does want nuclear power, but already knows ahead of time that its geology (with lots of mountains and granite) is unsuitable for nuclear waste storage. Meanwhile, north German wind power and Scandinavian hydro dams complement each other perfectly. The Bavarians could do the same with the Austrians, they just don’t. They want to eat cake and have it, too.
Am Bavarian can confirm. The CSU has been in power this state since forever. Especially old people just keep voting for them cause it’s the way it always was. They had to form a coalition after the last elections. Their partner is essentially the exact same party but even more right wing. Not even kidding, I could not name a single area where they differ other than their main guy apparently handed out nazi newspapers in his younger years or smth. He blamed it on his brother and then the scandal just died off.
Those small balcony systems pay for them here in Germany at ~35 Cents/kWh in a few months. Even if your power bill is 7x cheaper, they will pay for themselves easily.
nb4 someone laughs at us Germans for pulling out of nuclear power: No, nuclear is not cheap. It’s literally the most expensive way to generate electricity. Solar is cheap and better for the environment.
No, nuclear is not cheap. It’s literally the most expensive way to generate electricity
Source?
Beats coal anytime. Or Russian gas.
I obviously don’t consider fossil fuels as an option. And I do doubt that it’s cheaper to build a nuclear plant compared do building a coal or gas fired one.
Nuclear is reliable, predictable and stable 24/7 source. Solar not so much and possibly not that great for the environment if we don’t figure out what to do with used solar panels. Also their production is not exactly clean. Whereas nuclear requires a wasted fuel storage somewhere and the fuel will eventually run out of radiation in some hundreds of thousands years.
Storing something extremely dangerous extremely safely for “some hundreds of thousands of years” doesn’t exactly sound cheap, does it?
Not that expensive either. And that’s already included in the energy price. Also volume is magnitudes smaller than used solar panels.
Nuclear is cheaper than your average electricity cost.
I know because I’m Swedish and you use us as your cheap electricity.
French electricity enters the chat.
French electricity leaves the chat in summer when their plants need to be shut down because the rivers are too warm or don’t carry enough water in the first place. And that’s nothing to say what they will do in the next decade years when a good portion of their reactors should be commissioned out.
I’m sure this is a good thing, but considering the vast majority of Germans haven’t figured out screens on windows I’m not sure the appeal to authority in the title has the desired effect.
Like fly screens?
Becausr in that case I don’t get it.Maybe he/she refers to the operating system from Microsoft?
But what screens does he/she mean? Lock screen? Desktop? screensaver??
Very weird.I have to guess as anyone but I would say screen as in display/monitor. It must be hardware related.
We have fly screens in our windows. Windows which can be tilted btw.
You also have the best shutters ever.
What screens are you talking about?
“100 million smokers can’t be wrong!”
Would be nice if grid tied inverters weren’t such a regulatory PITA. Micro-deployment solar, and more importantly distributed energy storage, makes so much sense and could solve a lot of grid-related problems.
Wait that’s a thing?
Holy shit that a thing!? That’s awesome!!
I am not sure 1.5m Germans all deciding on a single course of action is something to be happy about.
You have Trump now. It’d be our turn to make jokes, if we had any humour.
Nah, making fun of germans is always ok, especially now that at least 1 in 5 voters are voting for literal Nazis again in Germany.
Why? Can you explain a little bit?
I am not sure if you are a student of history but twice before the Germans decided to go to war and have as their foe the world.
And does this have anything to do with generating power from solar panels on your own balcony?
We happily take the blame for WW2, but WW1 is on Austria!
Don’t know about “happily”. “Readily” might be more accurate.
On second thought… yeah.
It was a quote from Norm Macdonald, comedy - look it up if German search engines lower themselves with such humourous returns. The Germans are what they are, today they fought against appeasement and led a European announcement of greatly increased defense spending to support Ukraine and the world more widely, a difficult and noble decision. Filling the gap left as the US falls ever further into shame.
And how is that related to balcony solar?
*hurrdurr* Germany! Hitler! *hurrdurr*
Nearly 100 years on time to move on and focus on the ones that carried it on I think
A mere drop in the bucket when 77m have decided on a much worse course of action in another country.
Oh, German=Nazi reference, how original.
We have passed the torch of a fascist dystopia to another country.
During WW2, there were multiple
“Plug-in solar is part of the whole array of options,”
I don’t understand how this works? For our system we need an inverter that cost about $3000.- (half if it doesn’t have to handle a battery), and it needs to be installed by an authorized electrician.
For a small system as the one shown, the price of panels are peanuts, the 2 panels shown should cost less than $150 combined. While the cost of inverter and getting it connected is way way higher. There’s a lot more to this than not being on the roof!?! But which isn’t disclosed.The article says nothing about how the power from those panels is made usable.
Balcony solar is a set of diy technologies that require no utility permissions.
In Germany, NL, you can just plug it into socket and it works somehow.
In us you can use powerstations and also adapters that sync draw from battery as it charges from ac in house.
It pays for itself even with more expensive equipment, by not needed license, permission, that can lead to cheap efficient panels costing over 3$ per watt. Small systems that just offset use instead of selling back, have higher revenue offsets in high per kwh priced markets.
In Germany, NL, you can just plug it into socket and it works somehow.
This is incredibly dangerous as it will feed power into the grid even when the grid is down. You might say ‘that is great!’, yeah, well, the line technicians who cannot work on damaged cables because you are energizing them think otherwise.
One of the reasons home solar grid-feeding systems are expensive in the US is they have extra equipment to disconnect the system from the grid if the grid goes down. Your house can still have local power, but you won’t be energizing powerlines technicians are trying to fix.
These plugin systems shut down automatically when there’s a power outage. To make sure that they really do shut down when needed, in Belgium only plugin systems that have been approved by the network management organisation may be used. The other countries that allow these probably have similar precautions.
The “balcony” bit isn’t the defining characteristic, it shouldn’t be taken literally. Some people do have their “balcony solar power” on their roofs.
What defines it is limitation to 800 W and inverters that come with a normal Euro Type F (“Schuko”) plug and no legal requirement for professional installation. A layman can literally plug it in to an existing wall socket. Given that they are capped at 800 Watts, the inverters are also the simplest type and dirt cheap (although often they are literally just software-capped and identical to higher power ones, make of that what you will). Complete systems (2 panels, cabling, inverter) cost between 299€ and 800€ depending on quality. You genuinely only have to buy a fixture that suits your needs and a mate to help you install it.
Proper several-Kilowatt-systems are very expensive in Germany too.
Thanks really good info. 👍😀
A layman can literally plug it in to an existing wall socket
That’s amazing, I had no idea that is possible??? Is that special for Germany? (sorry for keeping on with new questions). 😋 I’ve never heard of that option here in Denmark.
cost between 299€ and 800€
No wonder it’s a popular option, our system is of course bigger with 11.2 kWh and 7.5 kWh battery. but it was $17000 1½ year ago. Prices have dropped to $12500 for a similar system, but still such an 800W system is dirt cheap by comparison.
There are already a few requirements for operating the balcony panels, At least here in Germany:
- You need a suitable electricity meter
- You have to register with a relevant authority and inform the electricity provider that you are operating a “balcony power plant”.
- The microconverter should run on its own secured circuit. (“Should”, will certainly do very few) But technically it is simple:
- Set up panels
- Connecting necessary plugs
- Microconverter to the socket
- Be happy that you produce up to 800 watts of your own electricity
I think it’s almost irrelevant how many panels you ultimately split up. However, no more than 800 watts may be fed in.But if you have panels with, let’s say, 2000 watts, you can of course charge various batteries with them beforehand. Nobody can say anything against it.
Just for your information : belgium is allowing the balcony solar panels this year, but they have put limits on which you can install. The power supplier needs to have approved the kit you install. This is just to prevent people from getting cheap crap from the internet.
Other than that, same rules!Wait really? I didn’t know we finally caught up with the neighbors!
Officially it’s allowed after April 17th, but there’s already an extensive list of approved devices.
https://www.test-aankoop.be/woning-energie/hernieuwbare-energie/nieuws/plug-and-play-zonnepaneel
There’s probably a french version of that article as well, but test- achats/aankoop hasn’t made it easy to switch languages :)
You need a suitable electricity meter
That makes sense, we also needed new meter, and that was about €200.- with installation. Not a big deal for a big installation, but for a system that can cost only €300.- an extra 200.- would be pretty significant.
Clearly not special for Germany, since the entire article is… entirely about Spain, actually.
The option highlighted here is very interesting, but as a test of reacting to headlines vs clicking through it’s an amazing case study. The German thing is a quote from a Spanish seller of this tech explaining why he’s confident it will take off.
I had no idea that is possible??? Is that special for Germany?
I mean, the regulation seems to be, but there’s no fancy tech going on. I’m not an electrician but I think I can explain, as I have recently tried to understand myself. To understand why it’s possible it’s best to understand why the limit is at 800 W precisely.
So German wall outlets usually have a 16 A fuse and the wiring in the walls is dimensioned to accommodate slightly higher current (I think they are 2.5mm² gauge allowing up to 20 A but don’t quote me on that particular part) for safety reasons. I suppose it would be the same or very similar in Denmark, or maybe most of Europe that uses 230V/50Hz AC.
Now, normally, if you have dangerously powerful load that would melt your wires, let’s say 5 kW, and you plug it in to an outlet the fuse will just pop and you’re safe. If however you have a 2 kW PV system connected to a wall outlet nearby, it would theoretically be possible that your 5 kW load draws 13 A (3 kW) from the mains through the fuse and another 8.7 A (2 kW) from the PV system over the same wire in the wall that is only rated at 20 A but now carries 21.7 A. And the fuse would never pop at 13 A, making it a huge fire hazard. 800 W is basically just what will always comfortably fit into the safety margin of the wiring in German houses. All systems above 800 W need to be hardwired by professionals “behind” the fuse box so that every Amp from your PV goes through a typical 16 A fuse.
still such an 800W system is dirt cheap by comparison
Absolutely. I guess the low threshold for installation allows some kind of mass market economy of scale whereas systems like yours are homeowners’ luxury goods.
Great post! Thanks for doing the math and explaining the concepts!
Have a look here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balcony_solar_power
OK thanks, so they are indeed complete systems including inverter, so it can be connected to the grid.
I suppose they’ve made some cheap low power inverters then, but the power still needs to have stable voltage an frequency and synchronization. So I wonder how cheap it’s possible to make?
I also suppose it still needs an authorized electrician to connect it? Unless Germany has some fancy system that is prepared for “plug in” connection of a local power source.In the EU, as long as it’s under 800W it can be plugged directly into an outlet in your home without any kind of installation, back-feeding the grid that way.
You’re not getting paid anything for the power you send back into the grid so anything you don’t use you lose.
Still very cool, because selling surplus power is almost completely worthless anyway. (at least it is here)
In the summer when you can sell, prices are generally extremely low, we have sold about twice what we use, but the value of selling is only about 5-10% on average, compared to the savings of using it ourselves. That’s because the price often drop to close to zero in the middle of the day, and sometimes even below.
Electricity itself is dirt cheap, the reason the prices are high are transportation and taxes, and short peak prices in the evening. Here transportation alone is more than the electricity itself during winter.
And we are only paid the pure electricity price here, which I suppose is the case most places.
It literally plugs into the wall.
That’s amazing. 😀
I wonder if a whole building could use one or two inverters?
I feel that’ll make the cost reasonable
For apartment buildings I don’t think that’s possible, since electricity is a per household connection with separate meter.
There are two main inverter approaches. One big inverter that takes the DC from a bunch of panels and converts it into AC and micro inverters where each panel gets it’s own small one placed directly under the panel.
The micro inverters cost around $150 each. So you need around 10 panels before the single inverter becomes a good choice.
Installers love the micro because the install is easier. However as a owner with say 30 panels you now have 30 points of possible failure instead of the 1.
Oh boy, apparently there’s a lot I don’t know. It’s really cool there are those cheaper options now.
If you pay 3000€ for an inverter then that’s probably included installing and whatnot. You can get a cheap 50€ 4kW inverter on aliexpress, or an expensive 500€ 10kW one.
No the price was not including installation, We have 11.2 kW panels and 7.5 kWh batteries. Installation was almost $5000.- !! That was probably mostly the 28 panels on the roof. But we had one installer handling everything, who was also responsible for the electrician.
That’s a massive installation though! Wow!
Also, you got a biig roof!
When we bought the house, that was one of the parameters on our list for “the perfect house”. So the roof to the garden is also almost perfectly towards the south. 😀
Even in January we’ve made 41% of our power consumption from the solar panels. 😎 You are right that it is a bit oversized according to “normal” recommendations which are 8 kWh for a house the size of ours, but we went a bit bigger in preparation for air to water heat pump, so warming the house will be electric, (currently wood pellets), and also we plan to buy an electric car within the next 2 years.Also it was a bit for fun, because of the movie spinal tap, so our panels go to 11 instead of just 10, because we need that little bit extra. 😋
Smart planning! Thanks for the story, are you planning to go off grid or is it just to be economically free? Any batteries in the future? Excellent reference, and implementation, I’m giving you an 11 out of ten!
Thanks. 😀
Going off grid was absolutely a consideration, but only for a very short while. There are too many downsides. We would need twice as much solar capacity, and a way bigger battery, and batteries are still pretty expensive, but even with that, we would still need a generator. And we wouldn’t be able to sell surplus energy. It would more than double the cost, and only provide 25% better self sufficiency for the whole year than we have now.
We live in Denmark, and we can risk to have to go through almost all of December with only a few days sun. Running a diesel generator for power would be both noisy and smelly, It would also require more work to maintain, and it would actually cost slightly more to us a generator than to simply buy the electricity from the grid.Remember doubling our capacity will not bring us from 41 to 82% self sufficiency. Because there is some loss in storage, and even double our battery capacity would not be enough to store 48 kWh like we made today in the span of only 7 hours. (Today was the best day of the year yet. 😎)
Even in January on a perfect day, we can make twice what we use, but such days are rare in January. (we use about 15 kWh per day.)The final problem with a generator is that we would never be able to achieve remotely the stability we have with the grid. We’ve been living here for 6½ year, and the power has only been out once!!!
The problem with making it bigger than we have at all, is that after you’ve reached a point of above 50% self sufficiency, you are entering the area of diminishing returns quickly. On a yearly basis we are about 72% self sufficient. To reach that extra 22% probably cost 50% extra.
This is if you live as high north as we do, because the extra capacity is only usable in the winter, in the summer it’s all surplus, and you get so little for selling the power it’s basically irrelevant. There is too much solar now, so when solar panels have high yields, prices often go down to almost zero.
Going off grid is a lot easier if you live further south.
Thanks again for all the information!
Yeah, going off grid is a whole philosophical idea in itself, way smarter to share with the grid if you’re not in some very specific situation IMO.
I always thought that those calculations about solar was a bit bogus, like you extrapolate the earnings today over say 12 years to pay off an installation, of course it will get cheaper in the future and as more people have solar, revenu goes down too. Seems you solidify that idea!
Today though it starts to be almost a criminally good investment… Living in an appartment I seriously think I might get one of those balcony panels this year, just gotta check out how it actually works when ju inject that into the system. We redid all the electricity so we have separate lines for about everything, will the sun powered line hop over to another one (they are after all all tied together at the central input) and how many amps can you allow to flow “backwards” like that and so on.