What are the main criticisms of Linux in desktop platforms?
Many (most?l tools I use and games I play aren’t natively compatible, and while there are sometimes free alternatives to them, they’re usually buggy, unmaintained, or lacking basic features
I’m having a hard time believing that is true of late. Unless it’s really niche?
For Gnome there isn’t an easy way to add programs to the application menu. And yes I know tools exist to do this but it should be easier. Other then that I’m pretty good with Linux.
“It’s different! It is not what I learned to use!”
I’ve been using it exclusively as my desktop for over 20 years. Does it have flaws and shortcomings? Sure. So have Windows and Mac. What system does not have issues?
Does it fit your use case? Who knows? Just try it and be the judge. If it doesn’t work, just keep using whatever you’re using, no harm done.
All you need is a USB stick, some curiosity and some time. It’s not like it’s a lifetime commitment or something. Unless, of course, you enjoy it… then you are doomed.
Its so much less user-hostile-by-design as well
Less user-hostile? Maybe. Hostile to the tech-illiterate? Oh, absolutely. There is no handholding. There are no guardrails. You wanna “sudo rm -fr / --no-preserve-root”? o7, gamer.
Bluetooth sucks on my fedora desktop
Also audio is weird
The transition from ALSA to Pulse never really fully happened and a lot of backend stuff is still dependent on ALSA. If you ever find that you have an audio channel that is just not working for no apparent reason (like audio input), run
alsamixer
and check if the channel is muted there.I’ve found this multiple times on new Ubuntu-derivative installs, and the channel muting in ALSA is not reflected anywhere in the desktop GUI audio settings and can’t be adjusted through them, but nothing is technically broken - you just have to raise the volume on that channel via alsamixer. It’s a very annoying gotcha.
God, the ALSA-PulseAudio Wars never fucking ended, and we’ve been stranded ever since. It’s the Wayland/X11 windowing struggle all over again!
“This package uses a legacy windowing system, and is insecure.” You know who else is insecure? The devs!
What we need is a new system
To be fair, Bluetooth sucks on Windows desktops as well. The hardware is just garbage a lot of the time
I’ll blame the drivers (and some of that blame lands on MS).
Some of the cheap USB hardware are unofficial clones, which get disabled by the official drivers. The clones sometimes work in Linux, but not reliably. It can be really hit and miss.
weird it’s so good on my iphone
Your iPhone was designed for Bluetooth, on laptops and desktops its an after thought.
Bluetooth has been pretty useful for me; the only problem I run into is device detection, sometimes, but once the two devices pair, rarely are there further problems in the file transfer process.
Linux seems catered for the most basic users (grandma) and extremely advanced users (Linux enthusiasts, programmers). I’m in the middle where I’m pretty good on a computer but not that into the tweaking and tuning. I don’t think my demographic is catered to very well.
There’s a LOT of super cool stuff on Linux but a lot of it is buried on GitHub and needs configuration to work right. 1, I don’t have time to find that stuff and 2, I don’t care enough usually to make it work even though I typically could with sufficient effort.
Every few years, i come back to Linux to see how far i can get before hitting a major obstacle. Installed Linux mint summer last year to get away from windows.
First impression: Steam and proton are great, i can play my favorite game Mechabellum without any issue. Helldivers 2 otoh won’t work due to what seems to be an anti cheat tool.
Software development is also kinda good. Install vs code, let’s go.
But then the trouble begins: my brother laser printer that works out of the box with windows and macOS refuses to print. No error message or anything, just nothing happens. Next thing is that i want to use lm studio to host local llms, but they don’t have a full release for Linux, only a beta that is not available from the mint AppStore. There is an appimage available however, so i have to learn how to handle these. Too bad the Linux version does not support in app update, you always have to install the newest appimage manually.
I would like to develop an llm application using C#. I download the dotnet framework from the AppStore, but VSCODE is not able to find it. After investing several hours trying to find out why this is, i surrender.
And then, for some reason, my NVIDIA card breaks. I try to reset to an older version of the driver, but to no avail - i don’t know whats going on, but steam only shows if i deactivate hardware acceleration and games also will only run on the integrated graphics card.
I surrendered and went back to windows. See you guys in 2 years.
Edit: some spelling
What’s ironic about the LLM stuff too is that they are usually developed in Linux, not Windows, and when you do get one working, it works a bit faster. The issue, like most things Linux, is there’s no good GUI options on Linux, because the same people working on it in Linux seem to assume you don’t need one because you use Linux.
As long as this remains the norm, adoption will be slow.
That’s a great explanation! I guess I could use Ollama instead of lm studio, but this is also another command line tool without an UI
@ryujin470@fedia.io here’s a brief list, in no particular order and based pretty much entirely on my own opinions and experience.
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you have to learn a little bit about what happens behind the scenes sometimes. for example, if you don’t know what distro packages are or what flatpak is (or the reasons behind each of them, honestly) then installing apps kinda sucks at first.
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you can end up installing a package thinking it is the official one, when in fact it is some variety of third-party. generally this doesn’t really hurt anything but it can (look up fedora flatpak).
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sometimes cool features get stuck in limbo because none of the people who want them know how to code
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sometimes cool features get stuck in limbo because of politics (in-project politics, not what you probably thought at first)
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it can be hard to figure out if something is good or if the people reccomending it are just trying to help a new user find something easy and, since they don’t actually use it and haven’t for a while, don’t know that it kind of sucks now (I’m thinking of ubuntu here but it happens with a lot of stuff, distro or otherwise)
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all the damn tribalism
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drivers are hell on most distros
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app availabilty on non-.deb systems
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some apps refuse to look native (gtk apps on kde, qt apps on gnome, anything made by a mac user for some reason, every browser fighting tooth and nail to default to windows titlebar icons)
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all the damn tribalism
I still use Ubuntu and like it. I get that snaps are centralized under canonical, but aside from that it still feels like a good community that I’ve interacted with for years, with a great LTS distro.
For the average person wanting to get started I still recommend Ubuntu. Does that make me stuck in 2008?
- Is a duplicate of 6.
Your comment is to be
closeddeleted in 3…2…1…yeah but 10 is so obviously better than 6
no idea what you’re talking about
OP’s riffing a joke off Stack Overflow’s tendency to kill duplicate posts.
@shalafi@lemmy.world I was joking too
@ryujin470@fedia.io @BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz
You should have capitalized one of the two so they would be case-sensitively different but parse the same, another thing to get used to on linux.
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For me if an application isn’t on the pop-shop then its very hard to install, I’ve had people tell me to just not download things from the internet, but when the application I need isn’t on the pop-shop or the repos its a non-starter.
Downloading the .deb from the website is very hard? Not being sarcastic, hoping to understand
If its a flarpack it just works, but most other formats I’ve had enough trouble with to not bother with them anymore. Incl .debs.
Debs should work just fine on a Debian based os like pop.
Pop-os is Ubuntu based as far as I’m aware
Ubuntu is based on Debian, so Pop_OS! still uses .deb
Debs should work just fine on a Debian based os like pop.
hahahahahahaha
Downloading the .deb from the website is very hard? Not being sarcastic, hoping to understand
It has to be specific to your distro, and your version of the distro, and compatible with any modules you’ve added. Ain’t gunna happen.
This is why containers like flatpacks and snaps were developed.
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Just installed Debian, no wifi
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Lots more stuff just like #1, such as my 10 year old and 3 month old Logitech wireless mice weren’t detected, and support for them is (fortunately) only available from a third party, which I found by searching the web for an answer.
I could give you pages of why Linux doesn’t compare to Windows for the desktop, which I’d follow with where it really shines - as a server for all kinds of things. It’s so good for specific tasks that even VMware replaced their own Workstation virtualization with Linux KVM.
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Doesn’t have the apps people need/want
I’m using Linux Mint for my daily driver for about 5 years. It works great with no ads!! I’m not a gamer and Libre Office works well for me so no significant problems with software. I also do some basic python programming on it. The more complex command line stuff takes a while to figure out but Mint has been great!
I’ve never seen an ad on Windows. Not sure what people do to get ads.
Play Solitaire
Open the Start menu, usually
Good thing Everything bypasses the need for this.
Forced to use the command line like you’re programming for ZX Spectrum in 1982
Forced! 🤣
For me, it was the lack of support for certain Wi-Fi cards. I had to pull an older Wi-Fi card out of an old Chromebook, because no flavor of Linux supported the card that came with the (Windows 11) laptop. And guess who has two thumbs and no Ethernet port…
Finally got it working, but at one point i was almost willing to have a USB tether to my phone, just so i wouldn’t have to fight with windows anymore.
Edit: Just realized it said desktop, but my desktop also has Wi-Fi, i just haven’t had the courage to switch fully from my Spectre Win 10 install…
One thing that happened recently that really showcases the difference between Linux and Windows is the glibc update that broke several popular video games. These games were specifically built to run on Linux. Ironically, games built to run only on Windows could still be ran on Linux just fine. That’s because those games are run through a compatibility layer that translates the Windows instructions into their corresponding Linux instructions. The games built for Linux use Linux instructions directly, so they don’t need a compatibility layer.
The update to glibc changed how some Linux instructions worked and so any program using the old instructions needed to update to the new ones. Lots of Linux programs are actively maintained or at least open source, so making the change isn’t a big deal. Video games tend not to be open source or actively maintained after they’re released, so some of these broken games will be broken forever. When that was reported to the maintainers of glibc, they responded that they don’t care if they break unmaintained, closed source software. It is the user’s fault for choosing to use such software.
To me, that is the biggest difference between Windows and Linux. If someone creates a program for Windows, that program will likely still work 10 years from now. If someone creates a program for Linux, it could break next week, and the people who broke it won’t care. It’s a bit embarrassing that programs created for Windows work on Linux more reliably than programs created specifically for Linux.
It someone creates a program for Windows, that program will likely still work 10 years from now
I was with you all the way until here. This statement is absolutely laughable to anyone who has messed around with older videogames. Sometimes, if you’re lucky, running it in compatibility mode with the version of Windows the game was made for will work, but oftentimes you’re reliant on fan patches or long installation guides showing you the exact configuration of settings necessary to stop the game from constantly crashing. At that point, getting the older game to run on Windows is just as tedious as getting it to run on Linux, potentially less.
You still are getting more of a guarantee from Microsoft, because Windows versions have typically had long lifecycles and were pretty averse to risky-changes within an OS release, but even that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore with Windows 11.
If someone creates a program for Windows, that program will likely still work 10 years from now.
TBF, that’s not even always true, especially with a loss of 32 bit support. For example, BioShock Infinite no longer runs on newer versions of OsX
Total Annihilation is so difficult to run on any semi-modern Windows system, and it’s not even that old… right? (Cries in 1996).
On the other hand you can still play it using modern actively-maintained engines.
But yeah I’m not sure how to evaluate this criticism of maintaining compatibility with unmaintained software, because I know that Windows prioritizes backwards compatibility a lot, but I thought Linux also famously did (don’t break userspace; any bug that people depend on is a feature, etc).
If there’s anyone that truly loses here it’s apple and Mac.
The glibc incident though was self inflicted. The Devs relied on undocumented behaviour in the ABI (application binary interface) which then got fixed/changed after more than a decade by the Devs of said Library.
It was akin to relying on a videogame glitch to do something that shouldn’t have been possible and then be offended that it got patched.
It was akin to relying on a videogame glitch to do something that shouldn’t have been possible and then be offended that it got patched.
Let me introduce you to any% speedrunners
“Put it back! I liked it better when it was broken!”
Jokes aside though, have you SEEN GamesDoneQuick’s Triforce% TAS? Jesus Turing Christ, that was amazing. It felt like the gaming equivalent of watching the Lunar Landing.
Speedruning is always witchcraft but ACE is on such a different level it’s insane.
If you’re considering how good software is, how it was made is irrelevant, the only thing to measure is how well it works. A criticism of Linux from a user perspective is still valid regardless of who is or isn’t to blame.
I simply wanted to add context…
Yeah, sorry, my tone was too harsh there, it’s definitely relevant context
Hey thanks for the apology. I appreciate it.
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