Okay, this is not an iPhone vs Android Phone debate. I respect your right to choose whichever platform that you want.
I mean, iPhone seems so antithetical with the idea of freedom. You have to connect it to a server to even use it, all apps have to go through a centralized server, no option to install whatever apps you want, which means, you literally cannot have any third-party apps without an online account.
Most of my fellow americans seems to love the idea of freedom so much, yet just buy into a closed ecosystem with no freedom? 🤔
Like almost 60% of Americans use iPhone, kinda weird to preach freedom when you cant even have an app without a corporation’s approval. If it were any other country, I wouldn’t find it weird, but for a country that’s obsessed with the idea of freedom (so much so that they disobeyed mask mandates), it’s really weird to be using a device with zero freedom.
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Honestly I didn’t get an iPhone until 2021 or so and all of my android phones before then ran slow in a year or so. That never happened with my iPhones. Having recently gotten into privacy and selfhosting I have considered a pixel with graphene but don’t wanna waste money.
Worth noting I don’t use iCloud or any of those Apple related services.
I know my partner thinks the same way. My family all has them recently too. Idk why though. We mostly had Samsung before then LG earlier.
I’m sure this is part of it. All my phones before iPhone sucked. All but one person I know with Android, their phones suck(the downside of cheap phones being available). While I didn’t try every model, and I’m sure they’ve gotten better, why would I abandon something that has worked well, for something where my only experience is negative.
Thanks for adding! I feel the same way. I can’t spend $1000 plus on something that most of my life has failed after a year or two.
A few things to comment on.
| I didn’t get an iPhone until 2021 or so and all of my android phones before then ran slow in a year or so.
Like your computer, smartphones slow down when you have a lot of things running/idling in the background. They also slow down with bloatware. Cleaning your phone’s memory every so often is a smart practice to incorporate into your ownership of the device. CCleaner is the one I download every so often to do a scan and clean what I can. There’s bound to be a better app option, but that’s the one I know about and have used before.
And just so we’re on the same page, I bought a refurbished Pixel 2 back in early 2020 and it’s been running fine for me. Haven’t noticed any issues with operations except for the screen and the battery not holding its charge as long as it once did. But to be fair, my screen has a few hairpin cracks in it from dropping it on accident a couple of times. And the battery hold on any smartphone degrades with age and usage.
| That never happened with my iPhones.
You’re either super lucky or you’re the kind of person that gets a new smartphone every year or so; for some reason or another.
As I mentioned above, smartphones naturally and unnaturally get slower as they age. But let’s not forget that planned obsolescence is very much being used across the board.
I’m actually mixing up my years. My first iPhone was 2017 until 2020 or 2021. 4-5 years. Only switched because I broke the camera.
My six-year-old iPhone was running super fast and nicely when I recently upgraded. I never had issues with performance. iOS does NOT necessitate closing background programs, also. It’s recommended you do not do that. It’s unnecessary.
I use my phones until they break or get too slow. Androids always got too slow for me. Resetting to factory default didn’t solve this so I don’t think it’s bloat.
all of my Linux phones before then ran slow in a year or so. That never happened with my iPhones
Linux isn’t really optimized for phones so they are going to be terrible.
And since Apple doesn’t really sell budget phones, iPhones are always gonna be fast, so is a flagship Android phone. Its the flagship aspect that makes a phone fast, not the OS.
I recently upgraded from a six-year-old iPhone and it STILL ran crazy smoothly and fast. The battery lasted most of a day, and I never had it replaced. The only reasons I upgraded were better low-light cat pics, more space, 120hz, and USB-C. I’ll probably keep this phone for six years as well.
I mistyped, I meant android. And the Samsung and LG phones were not budget sadly.
Its the flagship aspect that makes a phone fast, not the OS.
And it’s the OS that keeps it fast a few years down the road.
Linux isn’t really optimized for phones so they are going to be terrible.
Android is technically Linux, which may or may not be what they’re referring to.
There’s basically almost zero Linux phones that actually function as a “phone” in any daily-driver capacity. They’re all still basicaly developing devices unless you’re referring to Android as a variant of Linux.
I would never use an iPhone if my phone were my primary computing device. But I just make occasional calls and texts, and use a handful of apps (for instance, Nextcloud and Home Assistant connected directly to my home server, bypassing most of Apple’s ecosystem).
For a secondary device, I just want something simple and sturdy that I have to think about as little as possible—and for that specific use case the limitations are a plus.
I do always wonder if this is part of it. I want my phone to just work, but I have more appropriate tools for playing with stuff. My servers are Linux, my laptop is windows, and my work is Mac - appropriate tools for my uses. My kids can spend all day tweaking their gaming computers, but want their phones to just work also
While I’m atypical in how many different computers I have, are we just more used to multiple devices in the us?
Usamericans usually like to look for “the best”, whatever that means, and never accept “second”. I assume that they need that to feed their pride.
Apple has managed to make them believe that iPhone products were the best smartphones, and all of Apple’s marketing is focused on maintaining that belief.
Came here to say the same thing. Americans are brainwashed from a young age by advertising and classism. They have easily fallen into the advertising that crApple has about some ‘superior lifestyle’. And actually crApple is just an over priced UI that attracts idiots. It’s a mentality.
cringe
Not an American, but as an iPhone user who has had Android phones since cupcake before: iPhones „just work“, they are a lot less janky than Android, the ecosystem is smooth (although admittedly and intentionally less so when leaving it), they get updated for longer (and at the same time!) and apple has a much better privacy track record than the competition (a low bar).
Yes, I would prefer to install my apps from anywhere I want on the device I should own. An open source phone from top to bottom would be my dream, but Android is about as far removed from that as an iphone. Google took Linux and made it into a Frankenstein nightmare that is wholly dependent on them.
Just try to stick to open source and make your phone respect your privacy and see how far you get. Start at the usually locked bootloader, install a rom without google and see how few apps are left that do not require google services. And even then you are most likely dependent on binary blobs for the drivers, meaning the manufacturers can (and will) pull the rug from under your efforts as soon as they no longer feel like updating their shitty built of Android for the device in time.
I do not have time for that. What I have is enough money to buy a phone that comes as close as possible to my idea of safety, freedom and privacy without constantly jumping through burning hoops. If I am to be in a cage, it better be golden.
An open source phone from top to bottom would be my dream, but Android is about as far removed from that as an iphone. Google took Linux and made it into a Frankenstein nightmare that is wholly dependent on them.
have you considered flashing custom roms on it? e/OS, LineageOS and GrapheneOS (restricted to google pixel for hardware+privacy/security reasons) are all opensource.
As soon as you start flashing custom firmware the “just works” goes right out of the window.
Graphene. Don’t try the others if you aren’t prepared for an uphill battle. Graphene just works.
I agree that graphene is the hands down best. But for people who have a device and want to switch, and that device is not a google pixel, well that severely limits your options.
Just to say. I recently jumped from Android and the iPhone didn’t just work like I remember they did. Two bugs I had were adding comments on Reddit using Firefox. The keyboard would come up but my text would be off screen so I couldn’t see what I was typing. This could be a Firefox bug but it was still very weird and not one I’d seen on Android.
One bug that used to get annoying is I’d unlock the phone and when going to type, the volume would be at max briefly before going back to the volume the phone was set at. This caught me out a few times in the middle of the night.
I couldn’t get on with iOS and felt that after not using it since the iPhone 4S that nothing had really improved. Also the lack of being able to use uBlock Origin on Firefox was awful. It’s been a while since I browsed the web without an adblocker and I really hated having to do something every day. Eventually I sold the 16 Pro I had and went back to my Pixel 8.
The one thing I remember being great about the iPhone was when you upgrade you restore the backup and the phone just works. With Android you typically have to go around and login to all the apps again. Again a developer issue but certainly easier on iOS.
Android restores all your logins too.
It really doesn’t. It’s down to the developer. I would say that easily 75% app I use wanted me to set them up again.
This could be a Firefox bug but it was still very weird and not one I’d seen on Android.
This is likely directly related to the fact that Apple blocks use of any other web renderer than Webkit based on App store guidelines.
This means neither Chrome nor Firefox on iOS are actually the normal versions. Normally Chrome uses Blink and Firefox uses Gecko, but they both use Webkit on iOS.
(Yeah, I know this thread was meant to be about Americans specifically, but this proves they can be forced to allow it!)
they are a lot less janky than Android
What did you find so problematic and unsolvable?
unless you’re going to crack your android and install a custom rom (which, with limited exceptions, is extremely risky to do,) your choice is to either use an apple product, or a google-based OS.
Apple has a slick design, and while android (and many of he devices it runs on) aren’t awful, it’s hard to change. and virtually every mainstream mobile device manufacturer is using some some form of android os with a custom UI, including Huawei (which no officially a fork, because of sanctions.)
everything that’s not android or apple is pretty much going to have to be installed custom. (there’s a few linux-based things that aren’t android, mobian, for example is a mobile-version of debian.)
I’ll leave it to the other to rant about why apple might be better than android for privacy and useability, given the caveat of not hacking a custom rom.
unless you’re going to crack your android and install a custom rom (which, with limited exceptions, is extremely risky to do,
Lolwat
You can install custom roms to your phone.
Most device manufacturers put up roadblocks, and carriers will try to talk you out of it, but you can.
The first step is cracking the bootloader (which is a mobile version of the bios.)
This step is a usually one-way step, and leaves your device vulnerable. The exception are google pixles, which are designed to allow you to re-lock it. Which is why graphene is only available for pixels.
Whatever you do, make sure you never try any of this at home kids.
It is super dangerous and frankly illegal 🤡
It’s…. Not illegal.
You fuck up your boarloader you brick your phone. That’s not that dangerous, plenty of ways to do it safely.
When I talk about “risky” I mean that your bootloader is now cracked and any one wanting to suck off your data has had 90% of the work done for them.
Not sure what you mean by cracked
Yes it is unlocked if you are using LineageOS is
But it can be locked with GrapheneOS or calyx
You can buy phones with eOS? Also has a locked bootloader.
There are other options too
I think you vastly overestimate the “freedom” people need with their phone, you are doing the same thing Linux evangelists do, why would anyone use Windows when with just a phew workarounds everything works on Linux too, completely forgetting that average joe doesn’t give a fuck about any of that, they want something that just works and Apple is still the best at that.
Personally I am a tinkerer and I still switched to an iPhone, because I need a phone that just works, with android there was always something randomly breaking, and most phones I had to set up to restart every evening otherwise it would just have random glitches in a few days.
I have owned my iphone for close to 2 years now and I can count on one hand how many times I had to restart it, hell I remember having and issue restarting it because I forgot how to do it.
I can only speak for myself and my kids. I have an iPhone because my work gave me one for free. They only support iPhone for security reasons. Keeping Android devices up to date across a large fleet is challenging leaving security gaps. For my kids they wanted my old iPhones because it’s what all their friends have.
Because they are easily gullible.
Whatever you say, Mr. President!
through significant promotion and advertisement by APPLE, the mackbook, is used by tons of programmers though, and i have used the desktops at university library.
The answer is marketing by Apple and mobile carriers, which lean on peer pressure via iMessage. Plus the iPhone built on the success of the iPod, which led the market for mp3 players.
Fuck iPhones.
The binary choice is the freedom. As many people in this thread have discussed, it’s not a real choice, but it’s simple enough that most people will put on blinders and accept the available options.
I use iPhone. It sucks but network effect from people in my circle brought me here
Until there is a better alternative to the new evil that is google/alphabet, apple is a lesser evil.
Eh you can achieve similar or greater privacy on a Android phone simply because it’s not locked down in the way an iPhone is.
Not an American, but I ended up with an iPhone simply because the cost difference between it and an Android device via my carrier wasn’t that big. It was also a previous generation model at a steep discount which helped a lot.
I am not a fan of Apple but if a company is going to screw me then at least Apple isn’t so in-my-face about it like Google is. Google’s data harvesting and ads are absolutely atrocious.
I used Blackberry right up until they ditched BB10. Sometimes I wonder if I should just get a feature phone because modern smartphones are awful things.
I am not a fan of Apple but if a company is going to screw me then at least Apple isn’t so in-my-face about it like Google is. Google’s data harvesting and ads are absolutely atrocious.
I mean, that’s kinda the dilemma.
You might get a bit more privacy with Apple, but then you sacrifice with the whole “not being able to ‘sideload’ apps” thing.
And if you want to bit of freedom, you have to use Android, which means you lose more privacy because the whole Google thing.
Ugh, why does every company suck so much. 🤦♂️
(Also: I don’t even know if Apple is really more private, its kinda just blind faith tbh…)
Definitely a huge problem that you never really know, but is it any less valid to take their word for it than to just assume the worst. Taken at face value, Apple is much better at privacy and is a clear winner. Taken at face value, Googles basic operating model itself is exploiting my privacy, why would I accept that?
I also tend to be skeptical about corporate actions matching their promises, given all the evidence of recent history, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re judging them on your skepticism, your worst fears, with no evidence. You can’t know they’re doing the right thing but you also dint know they’re doing the wrong thing. I’ll stick with evidence, and Apple has a long history of privacy-based choices, I’ll start with their promises, but yes we need to hold them to it
Side loading is not impossible even without jailbreaking your device, as long as you don’t mind “reactivating” the side loaded app every 30 days. There are tools that make it quite easy to do.
It’s a bit harder to know what information Apple collects and what they do with it because they’re more obscure about it. Unlike Google that immediately sells your information to the lowest bidder to slam ads in your face at every possible opportunity.
The lack of sideloading is indeed a large drawback. I do miss the apps I used to get off F-Droid when I had an Android phone. I’ve mostly replaced them with, well, nothing. I use my phone less and less as apps, and the internet in general, become more foul and toxic places to be.
Google doesn’t sell your information. That would be the quickest way to create competition.
What Google sells are targeted ad slots.
Honestly, if you can tolerate the Apple ecosystem it works really well, with adequate privacy. My wife and my mother both use them and I recommend it for anyone who isn’t a privacy nerd.
If the user isn’t willing to jump through hoops to lock shit down, Apple offers a better suite across platforms for privacy and security.
Honestly, if you can tolerate the Apple ecosystem it works really well, with adequate privacy.
Not having firefox browser extensions is a huge dealbreaker tho (because Apple require some safari thing in all the browsers that breaks extentions), like imagine not being able to have uBlock Origin.
Also, I’m a bit of a pirate… Apple app store has no torrent client… 😉
Also, I’m a bit of a pirate… Apple app store has no torrent client…
I sideload iTorrent on my iPhone via AltStore
I’d consider myself an average ublock user on desktop, and as a point of comparison I’ve yet to run into anything on iOS that wasn’t blocked just as well by AdGuard for Safari, plus the distraction control feature for hiding one-off annoyances.
You can literally set up a raspberry pi for torrents.
Why on earth would you torrent in your phone?
Why would you torrent from your phone?
Wrong tool for the job…
Why wouldn’t you?
Slow, extra data traffic, extra battery usage.
What are the upsides? I could see a phone being a great controller for a remote seedbox for sure.
You can use it with wifi, I just view phones as computers, so not using them for whatever is weird to me. If someone wants to download torrents they should go for it.
Orion browser IOS has firefox and chrome extension support (doesn’t work for everything but most do)
