I hope he wins. That’d be really funny.
removed by mod
Neither did your mom. She just let some hobo pump and dump her, and now you’re walking around this planet spreading your shitheel ignorance.
Dude chill, don’t feed the troll.
Nom nom nom
While I don’t like the concept of pagents in general, I would like to think that my own standards are pretty good, and I also think you should leave.
They were forcibly shoved through the door.
He has to come out in slacks, his special talent should be mowing the lawn. Tuxedo print t shirt for evening gown. REPRESENT!
Imagine a buff, bearded person that identifies as male wins in a contest that measures female beauty
I know right? It’ll finally make pagents worth watching.
We should also get drag queen bodybuilding competitions. If everything is going to be reality TV for a while (support the strike, by the way) I’d at least want them to be entertaining.
deleted by creator
I would love to see drag queen strong person competitions. Imagine log rolling in heels and an evening gown?
Ooh, or maybe like that next ninja whatever show. I can’t remember what it’s called. The one with all the crazy acrobatics and stuff. Imagine having to do that obstacle course where you hang from the bar and “jump” while holding the bar to the next slot, but you have to sing And I Am Telling You while you do it!
American TV could get real fucking good, real fucking fast.
Holy crapoli, I’ve tried other peoples heels briefly a few times. I have no idea how people even walk in them let alone log roll in them! That sounds like some great entertainment tbh.
Or imagine one of those lumberjack competitions where they scale the trees and top them.
This is the kind of television we need!
Imagine them having to apply makeup while running chainsaws? It’d put japanese games shows to shame!
Rapper warrior ninja. :)
What is protest part? Not sure it is malicious compliance either because contestant was not rebirthed as woman. Not that it’s possible unless you are buddhist.
deleted by creator
So I thought I would look at the modlog in this thread
A comment was removed starting with
Not really seeing […]
by @Whirlybird@aussie.zone
Heavily downvoted sure, but what rule is it breaking?
I think the issue is that there is no such thing as a “biological woman”. Manhood/womanhood is an issue of gender, not sex, and gender is something that we collectively made up whose meaning varies from person to person and from culture to culture. The only person who is capable of saying “Person McFaceface is/is not a woman” is Person McFaceface.
Even if we were to interpret their comment to mean “sex”, that isn’t a simple binary yes/no kind of question. There is no single trait that determines maleness or femaleness, and lots of people have traits indicative of both sexes or of neither sex (or they were born that way then surgically altered shortly after birth), and sometimes those traits are so hidden and so internal that the person themself doesn’t know about it.
But do you think it deserved to be removed? You could have answered that directly to the commenter
IMO, this is too strict.
Yes, I do. This is a space where trans rights and trans people are respected. That means that their existence is accepted as fact, not debated in the comment section.
There are numerous places and resources available for that person to educate themself, if they had chosen to do so before commenting. Instead, they chose to comment from a place of ignorance. We have no obligation to offer them that education here.
deleted by creator
if other people were forced to treat my every feeling with rubber gloves, I wouldn’t feel respected
It’s a good thing that this isn’t what’s happening, then :) if people were treating trans people’s every feeling with rubber gloves, then we wouldn’t be four times as likely as a cisgender person to be the victim of a violent crime
We don’t want the rubber glove treatment. All we want is to have the same right to bodily autonomy as straight white American men do-- free to go where we feel comfortable AND comfortable in our own skin wherever we go, with no one trying to legislate away our mastership over our own bodies.
I’m just enforcing the rules of this instance. Specifically hate towards any specific group (which includes rhetoric designed to oppress) is against the rules.
Sorry, not sorry. In fact, I took great joy in removing the transphobes from this comment section. I only removed egregious errors.
In a way you could say I’m maliciously complying with the instance rules.
I got that yesterday, why the encore?
use that tiny amount of power you say you enjoy so much and ban me. This good people circlejerk is of no interest
You’ve not said anything rule breaking, let alone transphobic enough to be banned. Saying unpopular things will not get you banned/comment removed.
Is being a terrible person with bad takes against the rules? I haven’t checked.
Thee has’t did challenge the hive mind, anon prepareth to receiveth downvot’d to oblivion
I actually think a lot of people are confused because they didn’t read the article or know what community they’re in, so I’ll take the downvotes in stride.
Trans people are people too no matter which arrow you hit.
Mods are hive minds? Are you sure about that?
Not talking about the other guy, but about the guy who I was answering
They were banned for transphobia. Finish that comment. Don’t cherry pick their words. Transphobia and bigotry are against the rules here. As a cis person, I don’t get to decide what is transphobic; trans people do.
If we can tell the differences between woman, why do different rules apply depending if youre born woman or not?
Besides having an opinion about something that doesnt affect you, seems quite reasonable is it not?
Trans women were born a woman. I’m not trans so I don’t get to decide what is or isn’t transphobia just like I don’t get to decide what’s racist towards black people because I’m not black. I don’t get a vote because it doesn’t affect me.
deleted by creator
Prove they’re genetically not a female. You can’t without genomic testing. And forcibly testing for so many people (literally everyone who claims to be a woman) is both unethical no matter the reasoning and logistically impossible.
Therefore you can’t prove they aren’t a woman.
deleted by creator
Yes it does. Your position requires you be able to prove definitively they are “not biologically women”
If you cannot your entire argument falls apart. That’s unknowable. You cannot know they are biologically women so using that term is just a smokescreen for bigotry… and shows you lack an understanding of human sexing (which is objectively not a binary)
Imotali got it right, that is exactly how it works :) most people who are transgender know that they are transgender before they know the meaning of the word “transgender”. It also looks like you’re confusing two terms that sound a lot alike but mean two different things.
What you’re calling “biological sexuality” is really just called “sex”
or “sexual identity”. It’s concerned primarily with categorizing a person’s physiology into one of two groups based on the average of several traits, with lots of variance possible between individual members of those groups. This is what TERFs incorrectly call being a “biological man or woman”. Note that it has nothing to do with presentation, performance, speech, and other non-physiological traits–those all relate to gender, not sex.“Sexual identity” refers to the intersection of sex, gender identity, gender roles, and sexual orientation.
most people who are transgender know that they are transgender before they know the meaning of the word “transgender”
Sorry, but I do take issue with that assessment. Societal pressure is one hell of a drug at creating denial and it can take a very long time before you are able to admit to yourself what you are (There is a reason why the term “egg” is thrown around so much these days). As a trans-woman who has only recently had a partial outing (though now with the goal to go through with it all the way) and still struggles with how much my gender-dysphoria fluctuates between unbearable and non-existent you are essentially telling me, that I’m an imposter because it took me 10+ years since I met the first trans-women to finally come to terms with myself.
Also, when I’m already at it, not to you but as a big fuck-you to any transphobes who may read this: I guess I owe you pieces of human garbage some thanks, because all your hate-speech gave rise to so much awareness and support from people who I considered respectable in the first place that I felt a lot more comfortable to come out as who I am, for most people around me had made pro-trans comments at one point or another.
That’s why I used the word “most” :) I don’t want to invalidate anyone’s personal lived experience.
And I’m not saying that people have the full picture the second they’re born, just that once someone has that egg-cracking moment and looks back at the rest of their life suddenly, in hindsight, lots of mannerisms and desires and personality quirks make a lot more sense. That’s how I felt when I realized I was nonbinary-- I always felt the way I always felt, but I only recently decided to attribute the label of “nonbinary” to those feelings
deleted by creator
Well, I’m glad you made this comment, poorly phrased as it is. I went back and double-checked the scientific definitions of the words I used, and I included a word as a synonym where it actually is not a synonym. I’ve gone back and fixed my comment to avoid spreading misinformation.
Now to answer your accusation and your question, in that order:
First, the accusation that this is “my position” and a “claim”-- that is not the case. This is the established consensus of the scientific and medical communities, and I am just repeating what they said. If you have a problem with that, go to your local hospital and argue with a doctor or something.
Now, for your question-- I didn’t say anything resembling that at all. I corrected their terminology from “biological sexuality” to just “sex” because that’s literally what biologists call it–sex. Then I made the points that sex is based on lots of traits, not just the one, and that there is a lot of variance in what we call “male” and “female”. That doesn’t deny the existence of sex, all it does is say that biology mostly operates in spectrums, not binary systems.
You aren’t the judge of when someone is or isn’t a woman, though. The only person whose opinion matters in that case is the woman herself.
I don’t think they got banned? not sure
I didn’t post the whole comment precisely because it got removed by a mod.
In my view, the moderation of a forum should be based on rules, not on individual’s judgements.
I banned them. And transphobia is against the rules of this entire instance (not just this community).
Elia Bonci, who also spoke to la Repubblica, said: “I took courage, used my deadname and signed up for Miss Italy because fighting transphobia is intersectional and even though I’m not a trans woman, I’ve decided to fight for their rights.”
much respect to all that followed!
I’m confused. If they are using a dead name how are they not trans?
They are trans men, who the organizers consider women as opposed to the trans women who can’t compete because they consider them men.
I’m gonna need a pen and paper for this one.
We need a powerpoint explaining the 5D transphobia.
So like, according to the organizers, if they were born with a penis, it doesn’t matter if they transitioned, they are considered men.
This trans man (a person born with a vagina who transitioned ) is entering the contest, because if trans women are considered men, trans men are considered women.
So this dude is entering a “female” beauty contest to show how dumb the rules are. He is allowed to do so because said dumb rules make him a woman in the eyes of the organization.
I’ll summarize:
-
The contest organizers don’t accept trans women (AKA assigned male at birth, transitioned to female)
-
This means that they are being transphobic, they aren’t treating trans women as women.
-
The person in the article is the opposite, assigned female at birth and transitioned to male. AKA a trans man.
-
This person is considered a woman by the beauty contest despite identifying as male.
-
He entered the beauty contest as a form of protest and to bring attention to the blatant transphobia.
“Transphobia” idk I just think they don’t want certain ideologies in their shows. Makes sense to me but you guys will probably start spamming slurs at me if I keep speaking so…
Edit: I agree the rules are dumb and contradictory but calling it transphobia is just hilarious to me
“We exist” isn’t an ideology.
Fair but I just thought calling it transphobia was over the top
-
removed by mod
I went to high school with a Ruth. She decided to change her name to Elizabeth when she went to college. She still goes by Elizabeth. Is she mentally ill because she doesn’t want anyone to call her Ruth?
removed by mod
You’re out here acting a fool for free 🤷
Beauty Pageants are uglyphobic.
Bodybuilding competitions are fatphobic
removed by mod
Men don’t understand no, I’ve heard this before…
I hope this is a joke?
In what way? I don’t understand how that pertains to this.
Wait, they have to tell the organizers such sensible details?
Are they required to be virgins too?
You’re thinking of Miss Vatican.
removed by mod
For context, Miss Italia is no longer broadcasted on important tv channels and almost no one watches or care about who wins now. Years ago (10?) it was a big thing and winners would make commercials and do movies/series and be remembered for life. But it’s too an old school concept now
Anyway, I love this turn of events
Source: Italian
I’m glad to hear Italy is moving past its Berlusconi era.
Does this mean we won’t be able to see it live? Or at all?
I just googled it, apparently it might come back to the first national tv channel for 2023, we’ll see, anyway it was streamed on the official website before that and for the last 4 years
Will they have the power to reject candidates? Maybe I’m naive to think they’ll have the trans men compete too but I wanna see how it’ll play out.
I think they totally can reject who they want… usually competitors are the winners of local beauty contest, so there’s a lot of ways to be excluded before even reaching the last decision stage. But not sure, I never really cared for it
Aw… I see. Thanks for the answers, I appreciate it.
Of course 🙌
Ok sure. But it’s not really an effective protest as they’re fulfilling the requirement to enter the competition. Because the competition is steered by judges they will simply eliminate the trans men in the first round.
The rule is there to make sure the judges are not sexually aroused when they see a trans woman.
A greater means of protest would be if the non-trans competitors all quit the pageant. But their look is their only talent, so they won’t.
Clever way of protesting it.
removed by mod
Agree. They can’t reject them without exposing their transphobia
removed by mod
