What’s up with all the hate for emojis lmao
Back in my day we only had 95 printable characters, and that’s the way we liked it! /s
Antisocial people.
It was the same on Reddit. All of the people who despised emojis were often posting in really cringe and incel related subs.
My use of emojis sky rocketed after I started dating. They are fun and convey emotion really well.
I’m convinced emojis are what has been missing from language for a long time. They are great way to portray emotions through texts, which otherwise could not be achieved.
This way there is a difference between:
“You are so amazing 😁👍”
and
"You are so amazing 🙄 "
"You are so amazing 🙄 "
Greatest put down ever.
Same. I never used emojis until I met my SO, and then my emoji use skyrocketed. They’re a nice way of succinctly articulating some thoughts and emotions.
If I’m going to be relaying through to people strictly over text as much as I do these days, I better have a way to articulate it with the right emotional range to match my sparkling personality ✨
🤣
🍆✊💦🍳
😔
People who use them tend to spam the hell out of them. Like, 8 of the same emoji. And they use them every other sentence. It’s obnoxious, you only need one or two to get the point across.
They didn’t exist yet when I was an early teenager, all we had were emoticons that might be replaced by images by the forum software, so of course I think they’re stupid /s
Without sarcasm, it is a good thing we have standardized symbols now and don’t have to implement emoticon replacement into forum or chat or social media software. If only because half of such implementations replaced any occurrence of the number 8 followed by a closing parenthesis with 😎 even when that wasn’t the intended meaning (one can think of many other times one would end a parenthetical statement with the number 8).
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🚣👍👍👍👍👍👍🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 sigma
the emojis and text above are a part of the reason
Whats the boat rowing used for typically ?
Traversing water using manual propulsion
Don’t act like you don’t already know, pervert.
well that just sounds like you don’t like immature content/people
😠 I hate it when people do that because the emoji don’t mean anything. Like I can use a single emoji to actually relay some information but just putting a bunch of them doesn’t do anything.
💯🐴🔋(umm, staple)
Jeez, you’re right. We got pens, pencils, stock charts, even those folders with the colored label tabs, but no stapler, the most basic of office equipment.
When it’s added, I expect most implementations will make it red.
Hopefully it’s compatible with skin tone modifier.
I want it to be pregnant
Preganant?
If a women has starch masks on her body does that mean she has been pargent before?
¿Preganté?
Correct horse battery staple!
But was it a 💯 or was it a ✅? Damn neither. Let’s try with 👍…
100 horse batteries
Havent read the article yet but If you have to manually input just stick to 6 or more randomly generated words (different languages if you would like to). A keyboard won’t always have options for emojis. Your password manager’s autofill/autotype everywhere else and 2fa where you can thats it dont overcomplicate things thats a good way to screw yourself over
…no
Terrible idea, good luck logging in on desktop.
For Windows 10/11, its win+; to open the emote window.
That doesn’t work on the desktop last I checked.
But it’s actually possible to set a password with emojis anyways (or at least for domain accounts). I successfully logged in on a VM using the Hyper-V window and pasting the emoji from the host. You can also name an account a single emoji and windows actually handles it decently. It’s very likely to break a lot of programs though.
Its worked on desktops for years and works right now. As someone else pointed out “win+.” works as well. Or maybe its supposed to be the only way it works and mine is bugged? Idk. I found it via trying to lock my desktop and mistyping.
It worked on my desktop
😁👍╰(°▽°)╯
Works even in notepad on Windows 11, lol
Oh I meant the lock screen, sorry. As far as I know it works everywhere except the lock screen.
oh, I never tried. There goes that option. Wonder if that was intention to prevent people from trying to use emoji passwords because they didn’t trust windows to handle it.
It’s probably just because the emoji panel is a program and the lock screen has very limited or any capabilities to run any programs. And trying to make it the emoji panel to function on the lock screen is pretty much a waste of time anyways.
It’s Windows logo key + . (period).
Both work for me and I haven’t messed with the keybindings for it.
Cmd+Ctrl+Spacebar on Mac
Huh! TIL ☺
Who needs Reddit when people like you are here on Lemmy.
You know there’s someone somewhere who would answer you with, “what’s a desktop?”
Dammit I’d forgotten that awful commercial. Angry upvote.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Listen here, you little shit
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I began feeling old when re**itors started calling their site an ‘app’
You can say Reddit it isn’t blasphemous
I’m still in denial 😅
Wait, you can’t type emoji on your desktop? I feel sorry for you. 🥺
I have no idea how you could either. I don’t know how to create them with s keyboard
Winkey + .
Works on Windows and some Linux distros by default
Firefox has an addon that opens up an emoji panel.
Under Windows press Win+.
Until you get to a prompt that doesn’t support unicode.
As a software developer who has worked with a lot of symbols and emoji… PLEASE DON’T DO THIS.
Software doesn’t all handle these symbols the same way, and without tech knowledge (or even with) , it’s very possible to not be able to log in easily. I’m kinda drunk rn, but I’ll try to explain as simply as I can…
For example… skintone emojis are actually two characters, a face and a skin tone modifier. I think those ones are always two characters but some of these “multi-char” characters can be normalized into a single character. But not everyone handles this the same way. For example, Safari might normalize the emoji, but Firefox might treat it as two separate characters… And this would probably make your password not match. But basically… text has lots of edge cases; I’d advise to use normal passwords please (also maybe a password manager)
Was gonna say… you’re relying on the consistency of external emoji handlers that you don’t control. Ascii emojis are one thing.
Is my explaintion ok? The hard kombucha was… harder than I anticipated
It was pretty normal lol. Basically everything between the visual of an emoji and what “text” is entered is not in your control. So it’s great for security but not in practice as a password. What brand was the kombucha I want some.
I didn’t realize NYC has a physical Juneshine location. So I got a flight… and a Juneshine cocktail…
Thanks for the feedback! I’ll be sure to use non-printing characters instead of emojis for my passwords! (They can’t guess it if it’s invisible right?)
In all seriousness, why are people so adverse to using password managers? People are plenty willing to use the browsers built-in “remind my password” instead of a proper password solution such as bitwarden… And they come up with such “hacks” just to avoid using a proper length password.
I wonder how often curse words or obscure slang are included in dictionary attacks.
What about non English words, or slang? That would be interesting information to have.
Very smart idea, because everybody knows that dictionaries exist only in the English language /s
Lots of languages have local dialects and those dialects themselves can have their own slang. In Italy the local dialects can differ quite a bit. Do you think there are dictionaries for all the local slang in the Sardinian dialect? Lots of Italian maps don’t bother to even include Sardinia.
What do you imagine is the most used dictionary for dictionary attack? English must be up there, meanwhile Finnish for example isn’t going to be quite as popular
What do you imagine is the most used dictionary for dictionary attack?
Klingon, obviously. Every hacker who ever wants to become famous must be fluent in Klingon first, as we all know.
this feeeels like the stupidest idea ive ever heard… its not like theres really an emojii standard applied as universally as text, across devices or applications… the transforms that happen… this seems fraught with terribleness
am i missing something?
Emojis are standardized exactly the same way as text is, both are defined by the unicode standard. They might not be rendered uniformly, the same way that text rendering depends on the font.
Although I agree it is risky, emoji are unicode characters, just like any other unicode character. If, and that’s a big if, the programmers do their job right, it shouldn’t matter if you use an emoji or a random kanji. It’s all just another character. That said, I don’t trust programmers enough to run the risk. Your password might work fine on the website but then fail on the mobile app.
Someone else said “good luck on the desktop”, but Windows actually has an emoji picker built right in. Win+. will bring it up. Another fun fact, usernames and computer names both support the full unicode set on Windows, including emoji. Some fun can be had with that knowledge. I haven’t tried it on Linux or MacOS yet.
I thought Emojis were a set standard but how they’re rendered can change. So whatever it is that identifies the heart emoji is universal but iPhone, Samsung, Google, etc might render that heart differently.
How they’re rendered is a set standard now too. For example there was a bit of an issue where the gun emoji could be a water pistol pointing left or a revolver pointing right… and when it was combined with a person emoji… that could lead to… issues. It’s a water pistol everywhere now.
You mean Apple changed it to a water gun and everyone followed suite as to not have an issue?
Thanks, America, and your mass shootings.
I didn’t know that, thanks
If this isn’t satire, that’s literally what Unicode and UTF-8 are
Yes there is,
. I would say most modern devices/systems utilize it too. The reason they may look different from device to device is because the presentation style can be modified by vendors, somewhat similar to using different fonts to make letters look styled.
Anyone who takes any kind of advice from the fucking New York Post deserves what they get.
Meanwhile, Android not even wanting to accept accent is painfull.
That doesn’t sound right. Maybe non Google Android does that, but no such issue on Pixel.
Emojis are known to break systems in certain circumstances due to the way they’re interpreted in certain character sets.
I guarantee people doing this will not only lock out their own accounts, but may even freeze some authentication servers.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/want-to-brick-an-iphone-send-some-emojis
auth servers breaking from emojis would be hilarious, pretty sure that’s why older auth servers only allow certain symbols in passwords
“Your password ‘🤣umådbrø⁉️’ is breaking our server. Please change it.”
“Of course. What is the server’s root password?”
OTOH, there is only one character set that matters, and any system using a different one is, by that fact alone, broken.
I said only one that matters. So I already did pick one. It’s called Unicode.
UTF-8 and UTF-16 pretty much do everything, but if you have a UTF-16 emoji in a UTF-8 system, you’ll have a bad day. :(
Those are encodings, not character sets.
IANA calls them character sets, it’s literally in the URL twice, that’s good enough for me!
No need to tell us how you feel every day
Sounds like a crappy implementation of the authentication server then, and the sysadmin deserves a paddlin’ for not stripping non-UTF characters (or making sure they work).
My problem with using emojis as part of the password would rather be that while I might be able to enter them on my personal Android phone using the exact keyboard app I have installed right now, I might find myself struggling on a desktop computer or any other phone that doesn’t have this exact keyboard installed. After all, the graphical representation of the same emoji might look different there, and there is a chance I couldn’t even recognize it.
So if anything, I’d say use a non-UTF keyboard like Thai or Chinese, but then a standard character in that specific type. Keyboards layout can be installed across devices and are fully standardized, even if the same character looks slightly different.
also some OSKs put whitespaces after inserting an emoji, some doesn’t. there’s no unified emoji input method yet.
There’s no such thing as a non-UTF8 character. You mean non-UTF8 bytes? If a system sees those, it should reject the entire input, not try to patch it up.
Stripping characters from passwords, great idea! Right up there with truncating passwords that are too long.
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That’s not how any of this works.
First of all, stripping passwords is never okay. You can reject the password and let the user choose a new one, but never just modify it on your own.
Then, if your system is at risk of code injection by certain characters in user input, please just shut it down and never turn it on again.
Learn how to sanitise your database inputs first, damnit!
Doing that is actually a great way to tell attackers that you’re vulnerable to that type of attack.
Bypassing those front end restrictions is super easy, and the attackers don’t need an account or a password to attack you.
It’s like putting a sign that says “lock fragile; don’t tug” on the door to your business.
It’s like putting a sign that says “lock fragile; don’t tug” on the door to your business.
That one made me chuckle, it really do be like that 😂
If some auth server breaks because I put emojis in my password then that’s right and deserved
and there are many trash implementations that dont recognise something like :emoticon: as shortcut and turn it into emoji, no no you have to use emoji keyboard to type them
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The website should feed your password straight into a well known hashing algorithm or key derivation function that has undergone a decade or more of careful scrutiny, without any other processing. The output will usually be a fixed length base64 or hex string.
There’s a short list of about three options that are currently considered acceptable, and a few more are probably fine but are a little too easy to crack these days (e.g. anything that shares the same math as bitcoin… what if someone throws a mining datacentre at your password?)
If the site breaks, maybe you don’t to be a customer of that service.
Can you still log in to wellsfargo accounts using the T9 translation of your password?
It’s not the processing on the server that’s the problem. To reach the server the password needs to go through several layers of character encoding, if any of them fails the server will receive something different from what you meant. And when you try to login from another device and the layers will be different you’ll effectively be sending a different password.
It’s not the 90s anymore.
That is very much not a 90s problem. Especially if the company has a website and an app or is a small company not thinking about these things.
In theory this shouldn’t be an issue but it definitely could be an issue on certain services.
The same character encoding that would break emoji would break a significant portion of the words names, so if your system can’t handle it, then you deserve all the trouble that you run into.
Unicode isn’t that hard.
You’re not wrong, but some systems, especially smaller ones are intended for English-only situations (or originally were) so non-English language situations might not be as well tested and/or may cause things to break.
Remember there are some sites that still refuse service if you put a
"in your password. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s a definite possibility.
make one account with emoji password to test their system, if it break, good, go create hour account somewhere else
That only applies to iphones that came out 2016 or earlier and we’re never updated right?
Hahaha, I wish.
You would be amazed at how ancient and poorly maintained many web servers are on the modern internet. SQL injection still consistently make the top 3 web app vulnerabilities as of 2021. If that isn’t being sanitized properly I don’t expect emojis would be handled much better.
Thanks I wasn’t aware of that
For that particular bug, yes, but there have been many other variations on that theme and not limited to Apple tech. I’ve seen it nuke an email send for example because the SMTP server choked on emojis placed in a subject, to, or from line.
Thanks I appreciate the clarification
Sounds great where it works but I’m sure most systems would reject an emoji or make you type out some overly complex password in addition to your emoji.
It should work reasonably well in password systems that hash the password from a UTF-8 encoding… Which should be most things really. If the system is trying to process everything with ASCII, maybe not. It might even appear to work but get converted to some other character (which is kind of the worst case)… That should be rare in web applications though
Honestly you’d be surprised how many places it just works magically. I was surprised to find that Office365 users could use emojis in names for Microsoft Teams which had no problem syncing those accounts back to an on-prem Active Directory. You can use emojis to name a whole SQL database, let alone users/passwords on it.
I keep wondering if I need to figure out how to turn that off but it hasn’t caused any problems. It’s definitely sketchy looking though when you see a bunch of normal usernames and then suddenly one is just ten snowman emojis in a row.
Emojis are just a string of special characters that get recognised and replaced by an image anyway. It is the same as using those special characters separately.
It’s all just Unicode so in theory a password system shouldn’t think that emoji or any more interesting than any other character. To a computer the letter B and the emoji ✈️ equivalent in that they’re both just normal characters that one can type.
Sort of, emoji are usually treated as two or more normal characters so ✈️ might be equivalent to BB. But the basic point is the same.
I prefer picking a sentence or so that has meaning to me, using the first letters, and then adjusting for numbers/symbols. So if I wanted to make that a pw, it’d be 1ppa505thm2m,utfl,atafn/5. -looks completely unintelligible, but as long as you can remember the sentence and have some ideas of how you would have encoded it, easy enough to remember/recreate.
good luck remembering all of those for every account you create, though.
Why are you not using a password manager
I want cross-device
Most are cross device. Use bitwarden
Guest machines too. And I sorta prefer whichever browser/OS I’m using’s implementation because they’re usually styled similarly.
If you’re using a password manager you don’t need phrases you can remember, you can generate even more secure passwords. Or start using passkeys.
I am, and I’m not jumping through hoops of making up a password sentence for every new website. I let Bitwarden take care of that for me.
Just use these methods for the pws you either need to know (like your password manager) or don’t want stored for whatever reason, like your bank. Otherwise, yeah, just let your password manager generate a password for whatever site.
It’s as easy to remember a bunch of those as it is remembering 4 random words with no association, I think. And besides, just use that for the big, important, pws like your pw manager.
Four words is too low these days to protect against gpu bruteforcing
That only works if someone already has access to a system’s password database.
Got a source on that?
Edit: plus brute forcing is just one scenario. I think the xkcd comic refers to using passwords in online services, and those usually have some sort of rate limiting.
https://thesecurityfactory.be/password-cracking-speed/
8 character a-zA-Z is 45 bits of entropy (log2(56^8), about the same as the XKCD password if you take from a 2048 word list. That’s crackable in a minute on AWS.
Password hashes get frequently stolen, don’t rely on rate limiting if it’s something you really care about.
Here are the dice ware recommendations on the number of words: https://theworld.com/~reinhold/dicewarefaq.html#howlong
Sure, but the average English speaker knows way more than 2048 words. Let’s not forget about case sensitivity, made-up or “inside joke” words, names, and specific industry vocabulary.
Even if you take four words of a 30000 word list (quick Google says that’s the number of words an average person knows), that’s still less bits of entropy than a 5 word diceware password (7776 word list). People are also really bad at randomness, so your own string of random words is likely going to be much worse.
Thanks for the explanation. What’s diceware?
It’s the concept of literally using a die to choose with randomness (humans are terrible at trying to be random); a link with details is in a previous comment.
I like doing entire phrases with some rhymes thrown in. Makes it easier to remember them.
“BonyTonyMoansHe’sOnlyGrownLonely” has a shitload of characters, and a full sentence (even a nonsensical one like that) is more memorable to me than a random handful of disparate words.
The more ridiculous, the better. (And, naturally, don’t forget your numbers and symbols)
EDIT: Actually, no idea why I made it all one group of words. So long as spaces are in the password’s character space (and they very well should be if friggin’ emojis are), there’s nothing stopping you from doing an entire, punctuated sentence- other than that we’ve been conditioned not to think of a password that way.
“Skinny Kenny’s friend, Mini Ben, has 20 chins.” That should be a fully-acceptable password with 46 characters (48 if you add the quotes), capital letters, numbers, and special characters.
You can’t compare a 46 random character password to a password composed out of words, the entropy of each is very different. Your kind of password is vulnerable to dictionary attacks which are way more common and easy than brute forcing every possibility. A 50+ characters unique random password for each service that is stored in a password manager which is encrypted with a 20+ characters random password is the most secure and future proof (for now).
Dictionary attacks aren’t some magic bullet. There are a lot of english words and just four of them IS comparable in cracking difficult to a standard 8-char password that is as random as you can make it. There are a lot more words than there are symbols. Four words is obviously not as good as 46 totally random chars
Dictionary attacks are definitely not a magic bullet, they require a lot of processing power, just like any other brute-force attack, but not more because of their longer length, as has been implied.
True, there are a lot of english words, but the amount of common words is relatively small. Most people aren’t going to choose a password like “MachicolationRemonstranceCircumambulationSchadenfreude”, even if it were generated for them (which is unlikely).
Sure, it is comparable to a standard 8 characters passward, but even that kind of password is verging on the insecure (it is the absolute minimum, which should be avoided when possible).
There are also a lot of symbols when you count emojies and the entire Unicode standard.
If the attacker doesn’t know that you’re using a dictionary password, then dictionary attacks probably won’t be their first choice. I want to remember these passwords across devices and on guests.
Like someone else said on this thread; that’s just security by obscurity, which is bad. Dictionary attacks will be one of the first (brute force related) attacks attackers will use because word passwords are incredibly popular (though admittedly of fewer words: VeryBigDog34 etc…), and relatively easy to do. I agree that having the password across different devices is somewhat of a challenge with a password manager, but not impossible. My very long and complex password is all down to muscle memory by this point, I couldn’t tell you what it is from memory.
Also you shouldn’t use the same password on multiple things and if you don’t use a password manager you will need to memorize a lot of different passwords.
Just be sure to throw in symbols and numbers to beef it up. Dictionary words are easier to brute force.
The whole idea is to make it easier for humans to remember and more difficult to brute force. Long passwords are much harder to brute force than complex passwords with lots of special characters. And they’re a lot easier for humans to remember.
There are enough words in any language that it’s virtually impossible to guess the correct four words, even if they’re in the dictionary.
Even so, most password requirements will force you to add them anyway. Quick way to do it is to just pick a number on a keyboard and add it and the symbol to the end. e.g HorseBattery2# and so on.
You can even make a complete sentence that makes sense with symbols and numbers.
“Ronaldo doesn’t grill 76 Canadian Tacos.”
Or whatever
And requirements like that are why my password strengths are completely out of whack:
- Random websites get 24 randomly generated printable characters stored in my password manager. This is essentially unbreakable with conventional methods and can easily be adapted to fit whichever counterproductive rules the website enforces.
- My password manager and my home computers get memorable but long phrases. A particular favorite is to start in the middle of a line from a song and continue from there. Nobody’s going to guess “make you swear and curse when you′re chewing on” but it’s easy to memorize of you already know the song. Even a dictionary attack is going to have trouble with that many words.
- My work accounts get the bare minimum that complies with whichever rules the admins came up with. Numbers, special characters and mixed capitalization? No thirty letter phrase for you, then; you’ll get the minimum eight characters so I have a chance of memorizing the thing. Regular password changes? Great, now the last two chargers are going to be incrementing digits, just like for everyone else.
There’s a reason why experts these days argue against anything but minimum length restrictions.
Not 4 of them in a row. Keep in mind the attacker doesn’t know " look for exactly 4 words"
That’s just security by obscurity. It’s one other strategy of choosing passwords that a bruteforce attack is going to try if it gets popular
That’s not what security by obscurity means. And going by your definition, all passwords are security by obscurity.
If your strategy is to just use dictionary words your password will have little entropy and even less so if you use grammatically correct sentences. If the attacker knows this is your strategy of choosing passwords cracking one is way easier than cracking a password that has the same length but consists of randomly chosen characters.
Your password is only safe because the attacker doesn’t know your strategy of choosing the password which forces him to use inefficient methods of cracking it, while there would be a more efficient way if he knew the strategy you used. Which is security by obscurity.
Password database
I love it, Bitwarden has supported generating passphrase style passwords for a while and it’s basically that. It’s my go-to these days.
Just use a password manager, goddamn.
Two of my colleagues still use locally stored plaintext for individual work credentials, despite having been shown where the password manager is. Both have accessed their files in front of me. If it’s not in those files it’s saved in the browser (because convenience is a hell of a drug). Now you start to see why discrete managers have a hard time, even amongst technology workers.
Yeah, you can lead a horse to water, and whatnot.
But only save emojis in it lol
