Dismissing good advice because the person who gave it to you has flaws is the epitome of logical behavior!
Let’s assume I didn’t know about vaccines and I went to ask for advice to someone. How would I know if what they told me was good advice?
I would ask myself, are they an authority on the subject? Where do they draw the advice from? Who says they are an authority? What did they have to do to earn that authority? Do other authorities say the same?
Are mormons authorities on logic? Why trust advice about logic from someone that doesn’t follow logic?
A liar can say that lying is bad. A killer can say that killing is bad. It just so happens that the advice is good, in spite of who said it.
You ended up agreeing with me in that last sentence.
Disregarding advice you know is good already because you don’t respect the source is an emotional, not logical, choice.
Yes, it’s emotional to disregard advice you know is good. However it is a logical reaction to have.
It is logical for humans not to trust or accept advice from a hypocrite, even if that advice may be good. It’s not about the advice itself, but about who gives it. That was my point.
Unfortunately humans have emotions, and those emotions factor into our so called “logical decisions”. To ignore our emotions is to pretend we are machines, and machines wouldn’t be in these situations, as a machine wouldn’t give advice it doesn’t follow itself.
Now, if we were machines, sure, if the advice is good, it’s good, doesn’t matter who gives it.
Furthermore, if I already know the advice is good, did I receive advice?
Well, OK, sure. Irrationality is logical in that it’s human.
That’s one great reason to learn self awareness and mindfulness.
South Park pretty much summed it up. A nonsensical religion is a rational cost for being in a family is nice to each other.
Y’all take yourselves too seriously
Except it’s not actually going to get you the results they claim to deliver…
deleted by creator
I think you’re thinking of the Amish.
Many religious groups practice shunning. It’s quite common.
deleted by creator
Actually, mormons think they are very logical. I’ve seen many instances of people talking about how Brandon Sanderson being Mormon is why he’s so thorough at world building.
Does he write his world building on golden plates?
Perhaps he dictates his stories using a seer stone while staring into a hat?
The flaw of the meme isn’t that it’s picking on religion, the flaw of it is that it assumes illogical views negate logical views. Believing that angels hid golden plates in New England doesn’t negate good looks at a P&L in the same way that a Christian working at NASA that believes a dude rose from the dead doesn’t negate good math to get a satellite into space. In the same way that me being agnostic doesn’t mean I’m always logical and rational in every situation.
I argue the opposite and I think the difference is that you believe religious belief can be demarcated in a persons mind where I think it influences all decision making.
I.e. Does my boss make decisions on P&L because they are good at business or because they prayed on it?
You and my boss might look at all the same information and arrive at the same conclusion except how can you be sure that the path my boss took reflects your own logic and not prayer?
If the information about your world passes through a filter to determine if it fits your world view or not it’s possible to serendipitously make the logical decision but it doesn’t mean fundamentally you accept the logic of the situation at hand.
If your foundational understanding of what constitutes possibility, I.e. that when Jesus died he was transported to north America for 3 days prior to being resurrected I have trouble believing this doesn’t influence your day to day decisions.
dum dum dum dum dum
Most people don’t actually know what logic is. I would ask him to define logic to see where he’s coming from. Because most people either don’t have a definition or if they do it’s different than the one the person they’re talking to has. But to do that, you’ll also want a definition you could explain to someone else going into asking the question.
Boss just wants everyone to take a big deep breath (and pray?) before making a big decision
And taking a step back and taking a moment to see how you feel about the options is pretty sound advice.
deleted by creator
Wow Reddit really did migrate here
And not just any reddit, but 2010 reddit – in both the best and the worst ways.
Yes, how dare I punch down on the poor Mormon Church!
I never accused you of punching down lol
The problem is that the joke is old and isn’t interesting. It’s like talking about weather and then claiming you’re Oscar Wilde.
Person: “Hey, aren’t religious people wacky?”
*Crickets*
I’m not apathetic about religious people because unfortunately they continue to occupy positions of authority in our society.
If religious people were actually dismissed in the way you describe I could understand your perspective. They are not mocked liked this though and are very much taken seriously.
deleted by creator
unfortunately they continue to occupy positions of authority in our society.
No need to pick on religious people in this case. There are plenty of people with various character flaws in positions of power / authority.
If religious people were actually dismissed in the way you describe I could understand your perspective. They are not mocked liked this though and are very much taken seriously.
So you don’t know about:
- Bill Maher
- Bill Hicks
- George Carlin
- South Park
- any comedy movie that involves a religious character
- the Internet
Notably those examples make absolutely no difference on how religious people in authority positions frequently use their religion to guide how they use their authority (which ain’t fucking cool)
Yup, I’ve heard this one before as well. Got anything new to add to the discussion?
Do you? Your only replies are just you being shocked nobody agrees with you.
Someones upset their church is only 95% in charge
Dude was talking about religion in government and your best rebuttal is people make fun of stuff on comedy shows?
Culture doesn’t affect government? That’s new to me.
Please tell me how south park poking fun at you, as they do with everyone, affects your ability to legislate. Last i checked the jokes haven’t stopped anyone from cramming their religion down our throats
But you’re not talking about that, you’re mocking an individual for being religious.
They are not mocking them for being religious. They are mocking their advice about logic, which comes from a religious person.
Because you know, religion & logic don’t go hand in hand.
Isn’t the boss a position of authority?
Ah yes, makes 100 bln dollar profit illegally and tax free, pay 5m fee as punishment. What a fucking joke.
As someone who has worked with and for Mormons, it’s a special kind of hell. Usually some flavor of narcissist stunted at a middle-school level of inward development.
That is bigoted thing to say
It’s accurate thing to say.
Nothing will make you more anti-Mormon than getting to know some Mormons.
I’ve known some really nice Mormons, but if you dig below the surface, they have a lot of crazy ideas. A lot.
The gaslighting-with-the-biggest-smile-and-softest-words is too fucking real. It actually boggles me when I see how others fall for it
Spot on. I’m currently trying to get out of Utah, so it’s all too painfully real.
I mean it’s damn close but if you continue to zoom out you’ll see another point even further away. That my dear is the GOP.
My favorite saying is:
Not my monkey, not my circus
Edit: flipped my saying around by accident. I guess I do need more sleep
What do you call an 8 year old girl in Utah who can out run her Bishop?
I don’t know. Would you tell me?
Safe
I hope she’s a good distance runner since there’s no mass transit in much of Utah. It also explains why Japanese internment camps were located there and modern juvenile detention centers can often be found in places like Blanding, Utah: it’s difficult to physically and anonymously escape.
I think it’s pretty logical to outwardly seem like a Mormon in Utah, so I guess it depends.
deleted by creator
No but any religion is similarly “illogical”, Mormons are the same as other Christians with extra “m”
I mean, I can’t think of another sect of christianity that requires special underwear. Outerwear, sure, but underwear? Creepy.
Most christians pretend to be cannibals as a weekly rite.
The person they are cannibalizing is the same one they worship.
The extra layer of clothes is the most boring thing about mormons.
Just Catholics, iirc.
No, there are plenty that do it. Not weekly, but most do it yearly. I’ve known nondenominational places, lutheran, baptist, episcopalian, and methodists that do.
Catholics are the only ones who aren’t pretending, they honestly believe they’re cannibals
yep, which is most christians
50.1% as of this writing! They should call a vote now while they still can.
Eastern and Oriental Orthodox are also Catholics (just not roman catholics)
I think Protestant do it too
Really? Is it not painfully obvious this is a symbolistic practise / metaphor
You can say whatever you like bud, its creepy to roleplay as cannibals as a core of your religion.
Well, when you put it like that…
deleted by creator
It is a little different when your origin story is very obviously a mediocre conman having his shitty cons described by multiple eye witness accounts and having your myths be 2000 years old with no first hand accounts.
deleted by creator
Like I said, it’s different when you have the actual daily journals of people calling it a con.
Or his wife calling him a liar after he stuck his head in a hat to get his prophecies.
Like, regardless of the fact that to religious types the age of the belief has value, it’s just a whole different level of obvious bullcrap beyond simply believing in the supernatural.
It’s harder to believe because it’s easily disproven. Turns out Joseph’s “translation” of ancient Egyptian wasn’t inspired.
deleted by creator
Not just as easy. There’s a lot of room for someone to say “this was actually just metaphor” or even “these are just stories to convey values”.
Take the tower of Babel, for example, we know it never happened. However, a more progressive Christian or Jewish tradition can use the story to talk about how sometimes cultural differences are simply surface level, we are all ultimately the same people. Mormons aren’t so lucky because the book of Mormon was pitched as a literal history and part of the book has literal refugees from the tower of Babel.
Unlike the Bible, we have the author of the religion who very well documented how literal everything is. We don’t even know who authored nearly any book in the Bible or their motivations.
I’m not arguing for a god, I’m an atheist exmo. However, there’s a pretty big difference between a bunch of old stories compiled together into a book and a book of fiction that the author went out of his way to claim was “the most correct book ever written”.
deleted by creator
If they had the vocabulary, they probably would say that they live by heavyweight axioms like “Joseph Smith was a prophet of God” and “The Book of Mormon is true”. From my experience, it is possible to exercise logic with flawed axioms so long as you steer clear of a liberal arts education (my mistake, lol).
Well, do they believe the crazy bullshit, or are they just an opportunist looking to make connections? Church is lucrative.
How could you be a Mormon if you don’t genuinely believe that Jackson County Missouri is the actual location of the Garden of Eden?
The funny thing is, I grew up with a bunch of Mormons for friends and one teacher I know of, and I never found out about most of the stuff they believe until much later. At least they (the ones I grew up with anyway) have the decency to not go around spreading their dogma to non-believers until they’ve already thoroughly roped them into their cult.
Boss says “make logical decisions”. Insights like this are why they pay him the big bucks. Not just anybody can come up with such insights. (/s)
If your boss is a man, it’s easy to explain that logically: possibility for multiple women.
Mormons don’t do that anymore. They do believe that they’ll get their own planet to be God over though
How does that work?
I barely have the time or money for one of them.
