I also reached out to them on Twitter but they directed me to this form. I followed up with them on Twitter with what happened in this screenshot but they are now ignoring me.
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Reply, that you’d be happy to provide your e-mail. but first, you must verify them, my having them provide an e-mail.
And this is one of the many reasons that these days I create a @duck.com email address for each website.
My password manager (Bitwarden) happily generates for me both the mail and the password… now instead of having to look up for the unique password for each website I need to look for both the unique password and unique email 🤷
Furthermore if they are incompetent enough to make shitty regexp they are for sure incompetent to keep their db safe from hacking/leaking… and I am fine with a duck.com address being locked, less so with my actual email address
I personally use simplelogin aliasing service for that and just save the mail in my password manager keepass.
Alot of email verifications, very recently, are now having trouble with verifications in the domain name especially if it has a second period like yours.
Nah, this has been going on for years.
Sounds like they don’t want your business anymore.
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And to an EDU account, what a madman.
My Ameriprise account has its own email address because the fuckers don’t believe any email starting with email@ is a real email. I’ve called them a million times and got them to file a bug, which they did, and then closed as won’t fix.
Ⓕ
Sorry for your loss…
I used to have an email address “myfirstname@i.am”. I thought it was really cool… until I kept having issues logging into sites that didn’t understand how email worked. I now use “companyimgivingmyemailto@myname.com”, and I just confuse humans who think I work at their company, and that I don’t understand how email works…
Clearly AI.
Nah, it’s just a old school chat bot following a predefined flow chart. And in this flowchart someone implemented an improper email check.
It’s pretty much the same as if there was just a website with an email field which then complains about a non valid email which in fact is very valid. And this is pretty common, the official email definition isn’t even properly followed by most mail providers (long video but pretty funny and interesting if you’re interested in the topic).
interesting if you’re interested in the topic
The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club.
I’m listening ;)
Yeah that video is great. My favourite part is the Russian post address thing.
He has a lot of interesting and funny talks like that.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
properly followed by most mail providers
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You can use symbols like [ ] . { } ~ = | $ in the local-part (bit before the @) of email addresses. They’re all perfectly valid but a lot of email validators reject them. You can even use spaces as long as it’s using quotation marks, like
"hello world"@example.comA lot of validators try to do too much. Just strip spaces from the start and end, look for an
@and a., and send an email to it to validate it. You don’t really care if the email address looks valid; you just care whether it can actually receive email, so that’s what you should be testing for.Not even a dot: TLDs are valid email domains. joe@google is a correct address.
Mmm… That doesn’t seem right, it’s usually gotta be fully expanded to at least a particular A record/MX.
How would you tie the tld itself to an MX?
TLD is just another DNS layer, try an SOA or NS lookup for “com.” those are obviously hosted somewhere. Hell the “.” at the end is even another layer with the root nameservers. You’d probably trip up a bunch of systems that filter on common convention rather than the actual RFC, but you could do it.
How the hell were the original rfc designers so creative as to result in such a flexible system?? It’s gets crazier the more you look at it.
It makes the system as a whole simpler. Your computer only needs to remember one root DNS server (although most computers allow setting 4 for redundancy) as opposed to one DNS server for each TLD, and it also makes adding TLDs easier.
Yea but most of the time its more important to block code injection than to have the last promille of valid mail adresses be accepted.
You’re not going to get code injection via an email address field. Just make sure you’re using prepared statements (if you’re using a SQL database) and that you properly escape the email if you output it to a HTML page.
I think emailregex.com offers best of both worlds.
To this point, there’s a website dedicated to the subject. Some of the regexes get pretty wild…
Don’t forget +
Super handy with Google email.
A lot of providers support plus‑aliasing, although it’s usually in a company’s best interest to block plus‑aliases.
+symbols aren’t always used for aliasing though, and companies that strip them out can break the email address. There’s no guarantee thatdan+foo@example.comis the same person asdan@example.com.I have a catchall domain and used to use email addresses like
shopping+amazon@example.comwith a Sieve rule to filter it into a “shopping” folder, but these days I just doamazon@example.comwithout the category or filtering.
The problem is their website also implemented an invalid email check when I try to login which is what got me to this point
Nah, it’s just a old school chat bot following a predefined flow chart.
yes but that would be an AI still
A bunch of IF statements don’t qualify as an AI. That’s not how that works.
Yeah mate you’re talking out of your ass. A bunch of
ifstatements can, in fact, constitute an AI depending on the context. You don’t know what you’re talking about, stop trying to pretend you do.AI is a broad concept, a pathfinding algorithm can be considered AI, a machine learning image generator can be considered AI, a shitty chatbot with predefined responses (like this one) can be considered AI. Reducing something to a stupid sentence like “just a bunch of if statements” to try to make it seem absurd is. I can reduce something like ChatGPT the same way and it’d be pretty much as accurate as your take.
You can draw any AI as a predefined flowchart, that’s literally the point, they just make decisions based off of data. Large NLP algorithms like ChatGPT are no exception, they’re just very large involving incomparably heavier mathematics.
Here is a good stackoverflow answer to it that actually gives credible sources (including from the people who pioneered AI themselves): https://stackoverflow.com/a/54793198
AI is very broad. You can use many different definitions of varying specificity to describe AI which can all be correct, even a shitty chatbot counts as AI despite being so basic. There’s no bottom limit for the complexity of AI.
Selecting a canned-text response based on simple keywords is a long way from AI, and it’s foolish to
equivocateequate the two of them.Also, chill tf out, and don’t be so aggressively presumptious. I have enough experience with the topics in question to point out how misleading this statement is.
I suppose you didn’t click the link I sent – either that, or you think you know better than some of the leading figures in the field of AI… it’s not “a long way from AI”, it IS AI in its design and its purpose. It’s misleading to assert that it isn’t AI because it doesn’t meet your arbitrary complexity standard.
I doubt you have any relavant experience in AI research or engineering based off of how you treat the concept of AI and even data science in general here… boiling the bot down to “just a series of if statements” – and then implying that lack of complexity makes it not an AI – is extremely naïve and is itself misleading, you can do that for anything, every program is ultimately just a bunch of if-else/goto and simple math operations. It’s just an attempt to conceptually reduce it so much that it seems absurd that it could be in the same category as more advanced AI. Despite the name, AI doesn’t have to meet some bar for “smartness”, it’s a ridiculously broad term and any program intended to mimic human behaviour falls under AI (no matter how poorly it does it).
You confidently and rudely/condescendingly asserted something that is very blatantly ignorant of the subject of AI, I find it reasonable for me to assume that you had no idea what you were talking about, and I find it reasonable to very plainly call you out.
Also you misused “equivocate”… it’s not a word used to compare two things, it means using double speak/speaking evasively, “to equivocate the two [AI vs. chatbots]” doesn’t mean anything. Did you mean “equate”?
I did click your link. The accepted answer there states:
"The term artificial intelligence denotes behavior of a machine which, if a human behaves in the same way, is considered intelligent.
Again, I don’t think that selecting basic responses based on keywords found in the string meets the criteria for being qualified as an AI, as anyone with experience of a chat bot this simple knows it won’t hold up the illusion of “intelligence” for very long.
I did mean “equate”, you’re correct. The rest of my point remains - a very simple chat-bot like this is leaps and bounds from what would be termed an AI these days. To equate the two is misleading.
That is AI…
Even “algorithm”, you could say! The text adventure game I made in BASIC when I was 14 is going to blow your mind. It is 100% artificial and uses logic (IF statements), hence AI!
You’re talking to a bot that has a crappy parser and doesn’t understand what a subdomain is.
This is why you never attempt to validate an email address beyond requiring an @ followed by a period, and send a verification email
laughs in aliased Gmail addresses.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that a lot of sites are starting to disallow aliasing with email addresses. So annoying.
Technically you don’t need a period for a valid address. “a@a” is a valid email address.
Not a lot of people sending emails using hostnames nowadays though.
DON’T TELL ME HOW TO ELECTRONIC MY MAIL
I don’t recommend switching the electric switches by hand. Takes hella long.
Could be a Tld without a domain in front.
Can you give an example of that?
I’ve been working with websites, frontend and backend code for almost 20 years, somehow never knew this was a thing. Weird.
That’s really neat. It of course makes sense because I can’t see any reason why a TLD couldn’t have MX records, but I am surprised that any TLD actually does.
I found an RFC with domains that have MX, A, and/or AAAA records. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7085
.+@[^\.]+\..+I sent you some nudes…
Which is blatant incompetence considering there is a very straightforward RFC covering domain names.
I think you intended a different RFC?
Good catch! It is 1034.
It even has ascii-art svgbob would like!
Has anyone followed standards properly? There are weird workarounds in Linux’s TCP implementation because they had to do the same non-standard workarounds as BSD which was added since there are too many buggy TCP implementations out there that will break if the RFC is followed to the letter…
No, dots are NOT necessary. Actually you do not even need to supply a domain or a top level domain because mails then default to the default system which is usually localhost.
But even for routed mail there doesn’t need to be a dot.
There is still valid Bang-Adressing for UUCP routed emails:
!bigsite!foovax!barbox!me
This is a valid email which basically means “send my email to bigsite, from there to foovax, then to barbox, to the user me.”
And if you are in a playful mood - mix FQDN and BANG addressing…
A couple of years ago I made Hotmail crash by sending a mail to googlemail.de!hotmail.com!googlemail.com!hotmail.de!googlemail.ca!hotmail.ca!googlemail.fr!hotmail.fr!.. [repeated it for 32kByte] …!myuseraccount - their server literally crashed completely all over the world for like 15 minutes. I am so proud of myself but then it was their fault for not complying to RfC822.
I’m assuming by “dot” you meant @
I’m assuming by “dot” you meant @
In fact both are optional. With FQDN-Adressing a user without domain defaults to localhost, with Bang-Adressing there is no @ because the last system is left for interpretation of the last receiver and if he consideres it a user, so be it.
Smells like bad regex
Exactly. After the @ they should just confirm there’s at least one period. The rest is pretty much up in the air.
The easiest and most correct check: any character, then @, then any other character.
Even that would be technically incorrect. I believe you could put an A record on a TLD if you wanted. In theory, my email could be
me@example.Another hole to poke in the single dot regex: I could put in
fake@com.with a dot trailing after the TLD, which would satisfy “dot after @” but is not an address to my knowledge.Something something http://[2607:f8b0:4004:c09::8a] and http://3627734062 are valid url’s without a dot, and are probably valid for emails too, but I’m too lazy to actually verify that.
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And this sort of thing is exactly how you end up with bad regex that invalidates valid emails.
The point isn’t to invalidate all bad emails. It’s to sort out most of them.
I’ve had issues with this in using govt emails too. DOD accounts all have multiple dots based on branch and dept. It broke so many systems and emails never went through.
Which would still be technically wrong. There does not need to be a dot.
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Beautiful
That regex makes me nauseous
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That is 100% a bot, and whoever made the bot just stuck in a custom regex to match “user@sld.tld” instead of using a standardized domain validation lib that actually handles cases like yours correctly.
Edit: the bots are redirecting you to bots are redirecting you to bots. This is not a bug. This is by design.
It might even be worse than that, imagine if they let one of those learning algorithms handle their customer service.
That all loads of companies that do. In this case it would be better because it would actually understand what constitutes an email rather than running some standard script with no comprehension of what it’s doing.
The difference between AI and automated script responses is AI is actually thinking at some level.
I think AI generally tries to bullshit more often than participating in what the user wants to accomplish. It would be like speaking with customer support who don’t actually work for the company, is a pathological liar, and have a vested interest in making you give up as fast as possible.
That’s not what AI is though.
An AI is pretty good and doing whatever it’s programmed to do it’s just you have to check that the thing it’s programmed to do is actually the thing you want it to do. Things like chatGPT our general purpose AI and essentially exist more or lesses a product demonstration than an actual industry implementation.
When companies use AI they use their own version on their own trained data sets.
If you program your learning algorithm to “solve” customer problems in the shortest amount of time possible with the least amount of concessions possible, it will act exactly as I just described. The company would have to be run by buffoons to give the phone machines the ability to change user account information or have the ability to issue refunds, so the end result is that they can only answer simple questions until the person on the other end gives up.
That is not how AI works.
It’s not programmed at all, it’s a developed network, it evolves in the same way that the human brain evolves, saying it will try and solve the problem in the shortest possible time is like saying that human agents will try and solve the problem in the shortest possible time. It’s a recursive argument.
You have rather proved my original point which is that everyone talking about AI doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
You might say “oh but an artificial intelligence could never possibly match the intelligence of humans” but why would that be the case? There’s nothing magical or special about human intelligence.
Wow you really went off on an irrelevant tirade, there. There is a defined accuracy when you set up the learning algorithm, there is an end goal result that you define with which the program chooses and eliminates “choices” for a given generation. You program it, it doesn’t magically conjure from a witches cauldron or a wish from a genie.
And also, we’re not talking about actual intelligence and sentience here, we’re talking about AI as in modern Learning Algorithms, as I explicitly stated at the start of this thread before you used the term AI for the first time in this thread. Idk why you’re comparing it to human level intelligence when it’s barely passable as a poor and easily abused mimicry.
With your repetitive, nonsensical, baseless logic I think you would pass for one of those glorified chatbots.
Well, writing “operator” or “human” or “transfer” or “what the @#$” or something irritated may help.
This is not a bug. This is by design.
I’d say it’s a bug in the design as it clearly fails to work with a completely fine email.
They meant that they are intentionally trying NOT to help the customer, hopefully they just give up at some point. (That’s why they are redirecting to bots and not to an actual human.)
I’ve encountered plenty of poor souls in equally poor countries getting paid a pittance who entirely seem like bots
It’d be a lot easier to not make a bot at all if that was the case. They aren’t intentionally not trying to help, they’re intentionally spending as few resources as possible on helping while still doing enough to satisfy most customers. It’s shitty but it’s not malicious like you guys are implying.
Lol, why would that be true? They want to help, they just have a shitty bot
Most companies try to gain and retain customers. You’re suggesting that at Chipotle, they sat down and decided to actively not help theirs?
But using a standardized library would be 3PP and require a lot of paperwork for some reaosn.
Look, I get it, but first, what’s your email address?
I’m not falling for that again
Not without the support of an email address.
Incompetent verification is definitely a problem, like they applied the most simplistic concept of ‘what’s a valid email address’. I had a problem like this with a website that needed an address, trying to sign up for a phone at my new house. My address went like ‘123123 State Road 533’ The name of the road was State Road 533, that is, as in Highway 533. However, the address interpreter read it as a road called State Rd and ignored the 533, and told me the address wasn’t found.
Its quite common on email domains.
I have a .email gTLD and I am frequently told its not a valid domain. Its getting better but apparently many forms only consider .com, .org, .edu etc valid.
