But who is the responsible party here? Who first began spouting out rhetoric of annihilation towards a whole ethnic group? Zionists, go back to theodore herzel and the original middle eastern terrorist groups Haganah, palmach and lehi who were responsible for dozens of violent attacks and killed an estimated 6-8000 Palestinian jews, Christians and muslims as well as occupying British forces. In the years before the israeli occupation began These terrorist groups were then simultaneously condemned by the newly established israeli government while their military absorbed their leadership and members into their newly formed military apparatus. Im not saying hamas’s actions are any less awful, but international law does state that indigenous populations have a right to defend themselves by any means necessary and they are clearly defending themselves when you see the ratio of casualties was in the 20 to 1 range and that was before Israel used the 10-7-23 attack as pretense to unleash an all out annihilation of the Palestinian population in gaza and around other settler projects as well.
Israel bears responsibility here and ignoring this while saying “hamas is bad” and “do you condemn hamas” just shows a level of ignorance that is astoundingly absurd. When israel is clearly guilty of rhetoric and actions that are objectively worse but holding hamas to a standard that israel is free from being measured against. What planet are we on here?
Small detail missing from your story is that Haganah itself was formed to defend against increasing attacks on jews
So if your only qualifier is “who first began”, you might want to revisit that
Lmao, get out of here with that revisionist history terrorist apologia. The haganah were violent racist far right ethno supremacist terrorist group.
Even the newly form government of israel was forced to condemn them while they also absorbed all their leaders and members into the newly formed idf.
With your logic the Taliban was also formed to defend against the evil genocidal communists. 🤣
I don’t exacly understand what are you trying to say here, honestly.
Let me clarify what I wanted to say.
- The Israeli government is committing genocide on a large scale.
- Hamas wants to commit genocide and has succeeded to do so on a much smaller scale.
- Not all Israelis are responsible for the actions of the Israeli government, not all Jews are repsonsible for it either.
- Likewise, not all Palestinians are responsible for the actions of Hamas.
- Hamas does justified acts as well, killing IDF soldiers in Gaza is justified as they are an invading army.
- A very small percentage of the acts of the IDF can also be justified, killing armed combatants in the internationally recognized borders of Israel can be. Settlements are occupation, and settlers are illegal unmarked combatants. Killing civilians in Gaza and destroying homes and infrastructure cannot be justified and is genocide.
- Finally, the IDF killing armed combatants in Gaza also can’t be justified as they have shown to not make any efforts towards peace and they are using the excuse of the Hamas attack for a wildly disproportionate response that paints them as the aggressor at this point.
Is there anything from these that you disagree with?
Hamas wants to commit genocide and has succeeded to do so on a much smaller scale.
Fuck off, that’s like saying the occupants of the Warsaw ghetto “wanted to commit genocide and succeeded to do so on a small scale.”
Occupants of the Warsaw ghetto didn’t go into Germany to kill Germans, and they didn’t have a manifesto saying they don’t want to stop until there are still Germans in Germany.
I agree that the two are not comparable, but no amount of genocide conducted against you and yours can justify the genocide you want to commit yourself. Killing an Israeli for invading your home is okay. Killing them because they are a Jew living in the Levant is not.
It’s basically the same argument that Israel can’t justify what they are doing with the Holocaust.
Occupants of the Warsaw ghetto didn’t go into Germany to kill Germans
You’ve never heard of the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
nd they didn’t have a manifesto saying they don’t want to stop until there are still Germans in Germany.
Least incoherent genocide apologist.
but no amount of genocide conducted against you and yours can justify the genocide you want to commit yourself.
Image if you cared as much about the genocide that Israel is committing as you do about the one the Palestinians aren’t committing.
It’s basically the same argument that Israel can’t justify what they are doing with the Holocaust.
Yeah, and it also can’t justify what it’s doing by the made up fantasy genocide you’re accusing Palestine of.
You’ve never heard of the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
Warsaw is not located in Germany. Warsaw is in Poland. Killing invaders is okay. If Warsaw Jews went into Germany, and started rounding up and killing German civilians - like the Soviets did, that would have not been okay. If they went into Germany in retaliation and killed combatants until Germany capitulated, that is also okay.
Least incoherent genocide apologist.
What’s your argument? I never said that Israel’s genocide, or their apartheid policies, or their settler colonialism is justified.
By the way, I did go and look up the Hamas charter, and found this that changed my opinion.
In May 2017 Palestinian political and military organization Hamas unveiled A Document of General Principles and Policies … accepted the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders … at the same time this document strove for the “complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea”,[7] and did not explicitly recognize Israel. While the 1988 Hamas Charter had been widely criticized for its antisemitism, the 2017 document removed the antisemitic language and stated that Hamas’ fight was not with Jews as such because of their religion but with the Zionist project.
So I’d say that Hamas in its current state is not genocidal, though it was in the past. I can emphatize with those goals, and I’d say that as long as Hamas sticks to fighting against the invasion, the settlements and Israeli apartheid policies, it’s arguably a good force in the region.
Image if you cared as much about the genocide that Israel is committing as you do about the one the Palestinians aren’t committing.
But I do. All I’m saying is Hamas killed some Israeli people unjustifiably in the past, while Israel is systematically killing all Palestinians they can. It is indeed the difference of proportions that can’t be overstated.
Yeah, and it also can’t justify what it’s doing by the made up fantasy genocide you’re accusing Palestine of.
Maybe you’re misunderstanding me. To me - and to the UN by the way - genocide is not a question of scale but intent. For example in WWII, the insane amounts of war crimes Soviet troops committed in Eastern and Central Europe were not genocide despite the millions of casualties. Nor was the invasion of France or England by the Germans. On the other hand, Srebrenica was genocide, it would have been, even if only a single person died as opposed to thousands.
What makes genocide genocide is the intent to destroy or displace a population based on their race or religion.
Warsaw is not located in Germany.
It fucking was when the uprising happened.
rounding up and killing German civilians - like the Soviets did
What a shock, the zionist also can’t help but try to slip some Nazi propaganda in there too.
What’s your argument?
My point is that what you said was literally incoherent.
By the way, I did go and look up the Hamas charter, and found this that changed my opinion.
So you were deeply ignorant of the topic, but decided to pop off with pro-genocide propaganda anyway. This is exactly why the genocide has so much support in the West.
So I’d say that Hamas in its current state is not genocidal
Damn, so when you said that Hamas was not just genocidal, but had actually succeeded in committing genocide, you were talking out your ass.
All I’m saying is Hamas killed some Israeli people unjustifiably in the past
The fucking ANC killed some people unjustifiably in the past, so did the Jewish resistance against the Nazis; do we have to fucking go on about it every time we talk about those struggles too? Or just this one?
the insane amounts of war crimes
And here comes some more Nazi propaganda.
genocide is not a question of scale but intent.
Yeah, and remember that you knew fuck all about the intent of the Palestinians, by your own admition, but you went ahead and assumed that they were committing genocidal thought-crimes anyway, because westerners can’t fucking treat us as human.
Holy shit chat, keep up the good fight!
How do i see the removed comments on the voyager app? Or do I have to pull lemmy up online?or is it just Zionist apologia brain rot and im better off pretending that shit didn’t even get posted lol
