The trick is not to kill them yourself, but have factories and animal farms do it while deluding yourself into believing that there is a humane way to killing a living being when the reality is there are only less painful ways. Also, from the other side of the aisle, the trick is to delude yourself into thinking that animals would have any problems eating and preying on you. If cattle had no place in human society, their numbers would significantly decrease. What does that say about human societies with large socioeconomic disparity who are treated by cattle by the rich as they get increasingly automated?
There’s no point to this comment, it has been released into the wild so that it may be free.
The whole taste argument completely ignores nutrition.
Why don’t you only eat potatoes? Do you derive taste pleasure from B12 supplements?
Attaching a system of morality to a diet is just religion.
I maintain that veganism is just halal/kosher for atheists/agnostics.
Attaching a system of mortality to a diet is just religion
… what? I’m sorry, but this simply doesn’t make sense at all. By this logic what is wrong with cannibalism? Attaching a system of morality to that diet would just be a religion right? And I’m sure eating human meat has all kinds of nutrients.
Do you derive taste pleasure from B12 supplements?
The store stocks them with raspberry and mango taste, so yes? I have no idea what your point is, though.
The experiences of animals are real and matter. Their suffering is identical in nature to your own. Your moral perspective demands that you deny or ignore these facts. If you can deny that an animal’s experience has any value, you can do the same to a human.
Welcome on Lemmy!
Thank you! It’s been fun so far! :)
want to see a westerner have a full on tantrum? Suggest to them that their actions are not always morally neutral
The smug, always morally neutral easterners:
I hate these filthy Neutrals. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
Look up the prevalence of veganism
The smug, eternally morally superior vegan:
removed by mod
I really hope it’s a cultural difference, but where I’m from, calling someone a ‘morally inferior feminine whiner’ “having a full on tantrum” because they said something you dislike with is frowned upon.
Flattening “I deserve to murder terrified children slaves because I’m a picky eater” to “something I dislike” is a bigger offense than your misquote.
But your description of the carnists in this thread is not inaccurate, minus the misogyny you’re illiterately trying to paint me with.
But no matter what, wherever there’s suffering; wherever there’s exploitation, there’s a .world account defending it in the most trite, superficial way possible.
I mean, Vegans are morally superior, that’s a solved question.
no, they’re not
Yes, they are, unless you can make the argument that animal suffering and environmental destruction are good things.
being vegan doesn’t do anything about those
Can anyone downvoting this explain how vegans are not morally superior?
- Not a vegan btw
I would be very surprised. I am not even fully vegan myself, people just don’t want to confront their own moral issues.
Thry certainly earn the smug reputation
They’re better than you and it should be known.
This isn’t about being smug or not. Veganism is morally superior as long as you consider that animals suffer for Human Consumption, envionmental impacts of animal products far outweigh vegan alternatives, and humans can get all of their nutrition from vegan sources.
The reason humans eat meat is for pleasure and profit, neither of which can be considered “morally superior” to the benefits of Veganism.
smug, eternally morally superior vegan Yay! me 🥰 also: 😏
Yummy man flesh
yeah, yummy meat. I like it a lot. Sometimes i salt it than dry it myself, and god, does it taste delicious. I might be bothered by the cruelty of all this meat industry, but guess what, if i were to choose, i’d rather be a farm pig. Anything actually that does not comprehend the cruelty of this reality, and i’m not talking about farms here. Also, unlike most of us they go away quickly.
P.S. fyi, latest studies show that plants might also feel the pain. Sorry to disappoint you guys, but it seems like we are just doomed to bring more suffering in this world. You better find a way to cope with this before it became more researched.
I am a lot more convinced by the environmental arguments to veganism.
To each their own, motivations for veganism vary vastly. My dad was hardcore vegan for over 25 years and never ever did he care about animals or the environment. He was vegan out of (for a lack of a better term) health beliefs. Nowadays he eats mussels and raw cheese and egg yolks.
Well three of them are psycho strawman and the last one is nature playing out lol
I really don’t see how they are strawmen. The vast majority of people do not need meat, the reason they eat meat is because it tastes good. Taste is merely one of our senses, why is it ok to kill to enjoy the taste, but not ok to enjoy the sound or sight? That’s what the meme is getting at.
Nature playing out
Why is this an argument, when it isn’t an acceptable reason for anything else? Rape, murder, thievery are all things that most people see as wrong, despite them happening in nature plenty.
One of the things that makes humans unique is our ability to consider logic and mortality beyond what happens in nature, because nature certainly isn’t perfect.
Why is this an argument,
That’s not an argument. it’s a fact.
It might be a fact, but it’s being used as an argument to make a specific point. These things are not exclusive.
And my question stands, why is it being used as an argument when it has no relevance?
The vast majority of people do not need meat,
you don’t know what others need
I of course don’t know what any specific person needs, but knowing what the vast majority of people need is trivial, it’s basic science.
Please stop arguing is such bad faith in every response you make.
i’m stating facts, and you concede those facts, and then claim i’m arguing in bad faith. you don’t know what that means: your accusation of bad faith is, itself bad faith.
You are stating strawmen: facts with no relevance to the argument presented, which you then point to and refuse to address the actual argument.
I never claimed to know what any individual needs, but you have started it as a fact as if that is at all relevant. It’s not, because I never claimed it. I claimed that I know that the vast majority of people need, based on basic science and statistics. If you have fact which actually argued against that, then please go ahead. But unrelated facts posing as arguments are strawman arguments, and are bad faith.
I never claimed to know what any individual needs
we can all read what you said
Did you really just call stuffing 10 pigs in a cell smaller than my toilet, leaving them unable to even turn around, feeding them with drugs and then killing them without ever having seen the sun ‘nature playing out’? Good one.
this is moving the goal post
The MFs in hungary, finland and the uk pretending that blood is a freaking ingredient and cooking “food” from it.
Blood is an ingredient in many other countries. We have blood sausages (morcilla) in Spain, and they’re common in many other places too
What’s your problem with that? I’m not into it myself but I can’t see how it’s any different from eating meat in the first place
I don’t kill any animals, I leave that to others.
Putin-esque.
If most people in the world are Putin-esque, making the term meaningless, then sure.
No. What is Putin-esque is churlishly claiming that your cruelty and violence are actually the consequences of other people’s decisions and actions. It’s chilling and everyone sees right through it, but neither you nor Putin really care about that, because neither of you are engaging in good faith.
Username checks out.
Specialisation of labour is literally the basis of our entire civilisation. Everybody does it for almost everything. Comparing that to Putin is definitely some next level stupid.
That’s obviously not my point. “Next level stupid” indeed.
No, reading your follow up comment made me realise you misunderstood (maybe intentionally, but I think not) the inital point in the first place.
I understand it. And I understand that it is bullshit. It is an attempt to emotionally distance oneself from the consequences of one’s own choices. If one chooses for an animal to be killed, one is responsible for its death, and playing little semantic games cannot change that fundamental reality. But these games do prevent one from fully processing an idea that threatens them. It’s how you brainwash yourself. Groom yourself to be able to commit cruelty and violence, and not feel bad about it.
To even engage in such sophistry is to confess one’s guilt.
Ok buddy.
You can have the last bark. I won’t reply anymore. Go ahead, take it. Buddy.
I do actually like to see mosquitoes die.
Specially when they are running away with MY blood.
Yeah I like to flatten them in a millisecond
I like the trick where you squeeze the skin around where they’re sucking so they explode
Mosquitos have been causing humans harm since forever. If the vegan idea is too reduce harm then maybe vegans should be obligated to kill the sadistic little fuckers
This but unironically
The toasty warm planet thanks your contributions. Especially those dying from extreme weather events!
My apologies. Didn’t realize my dietary habits were responsible for the state of the US electrical grid.
No, but its responsible for ~40% of the entire world’s global greenhouse gas emissions. If you’re at all left wing, you should put your money where your mouth is and commit to a diet that aligns with literally all of your beliefs.
But hey I’m just Three Ducks, relatively removed from the risk of meat eaters, in the US at least 🦆
all of agriculture is only responsible for about 20% of global emissions. your numbers are wrong
Prove it.
I’ve been vegetarian for about 3 years (working towards vegan) because I want to decrease my carbon footprint, but yeah. Meat is delicious.
If you can find TVP in the shops, in a steak shape, that stuff is ridiculous. You just cook them in a vegetable broth, press out the water and then sear them like a steak in a pan. The Maillard reaction turns the protein into that typical seared meat taste and it’s similarly chewy, too.
Granted I have been vegetarian for a bit too long to really judge it, but I did also immediately gag on my first bite, because my body was convinced I was biting into meat.
I would join vegan standards but I still wait for the “eat the rich” part. I mean who would do it? Those vegans? no. This is a job for meat lovers.
Compost the rich and use them to fertilize the fields.
Just don’t grow mushrooms or potatoes in billionaire compost. They have a tendency to uptake heavy metals from their nutrient source, and no one wants lead in their mushroom soup or mashed potatoes.
Eating the rich is vegan, as they are not sentient and don’t feel pain.
But please stop paying for animal abuseno one is paying for animal abuse
Literally billions of people are. Do you think meat just spontaneously appears in the supermarket?
Literally billions of people are.
no, they aren’t.
Found the person that is
I grew up on a farm, I’ve killed and slaughtered my own food my whole life and I always felt good about eating meat because of that fact.
As I get older I’m really starting to hate killing things, I don’t want to end a life at all. My couple of vegetarian days might turn into a whole lifestyle.
