Killing the animals because the Metroid speedrun is faster.
For real, dead animals taste amazing when you grill them
You should try dog if you get the chance, Elwood dog farm has a low impact factory farm where you can buy Labrador cuts and some gamier breeds if they’re in stock.
I mean I could but I have a nearly limitless supply of rabbits in my yard. Their fur makes great gifts. My plants love the compost I get from everything else. As a bonus the blood compost deters rabbits from eating my cabbage.
Funny thing, I can’t seem to find any type of vegan certification that is concerned with the use of animal byproducts or waste in fertilizer. A few specifically say they do not check fertilizer.
Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good. If everyone stopped eating animals, there’d be no surplus of blood and bone for fertilisers, and other plant based by-products would fill the space.
As for the rabbits, I actually have a small Australian shepherd that runs through my lawn chasing the wallabies that meander by, I’ve been meaning to trap it and humanely slaughter it, the blue coat would make a great gift! And if the owner comes by looking for Bella, I could trap him and humanely slaughter him too. He looks a bit simple, so it seems ethical to me? He’d make good compost, that’s for true.
I expected the dog to be actually blue, but it seems to just be a pattern. Would’v been cool though
Actually a lot of organic farms rely on blood and bone meal, manure and fish emulsion fertilizers. They’re inexpensive as they’re byproducts of other industries and are very good for plants.
When I worked in an organic greenhouse I often wondered about how vegans would feel about farmers using animal based fertilizers. We definitely told people what we used, as we sold those products, but no one ever said anything about it. I guess vegans can’t control that so maybe it’s a nonissue unless they grow their own food and use seaweed based fertilizer(more expensive) instead?If you’ve got the luxury, you can also let fields go fallow and rotate crops to avoid fertilizer. That obviously requires more land though
This thread is weird. It seems like you all never heard of compost.
Does that work long term on a commercial scale without egg shells/ bone meal? Afaik, there needs to be an additional source of calcium, but that could of course also supplement crop rotation/fallowing.
Though tbf, limestone is very soft and I could see supplementing with ground limestone.
Eggs shells don’t work unless they’re ground into a very fine powder.
I don’t know the answer to this question. You may be right. And yea, I can see limestone in the right doses working.
And we could always extract the nutrients from our waste. Close the cycle: what goes in, goes out. We’re already using biosolids in agriculture.
For a split second that website looked convincing 🙂
Would try if it was real.I agree! There’s actually a few human races I consider acceptable to eat, what a breath of fresh air to find someone like minded!
a few races of human
Ew, are you like a racist or something ?
I suppose when you presuppose superiority over sentient life for no other reason than your own pleasure, it’s quite easy to become racist.
You’re dawn right “ew”!
You can try some in Switzerland. While you can’t sell the meat, slaughtering and eating it is legal. There is farms where you can “make a donation” and they’ll invite you to dinner.
i know u are saying that because u think that would be bad but there is literally nothing wrong with eating dogs, also cats are good too.
Great, so we agree no animals are ethically off limits to kill and consume. How about… Some of the more simple minded human populace? Like, if through IQ testing we find the bottom 5% of humans, and (without eating brain and spine, avoiding prion diseases) feed them to the masses? They’re probably not terribly much smarter than dogs, and they could help curb food shortages. Or are humans off limits?
there are genuine health issues with cannibalism unlike dogs and cats, bet we taste good too given the right seasonings tho
Only if you eat the brain or spinal column, which I was careful to add. Otherwise the risks are as manageable as with cow meat, i.e., parasites and bacteria. Given that you’re okay with eating cats and dogs, and now simple-minded humans, what’s to stop me from killing and eating you? I mean, all anyone needs to assert is that they’re mentally superior to their food, what’s off the table for you?
I’m sure mass scale cannibalism might actually be as good for the environment as a plant based diet. Maybe you’re on to something. We’d be so morally consistent!
go ahead a good third of my country thinks i shouldn’t exist anyway and im sick of fighting it, im sure i taste good too
you keep trying to push people into corners about this when most ppl who eat meat do it simply because it tastes good, has good nutritional value, and is easily accessible. for my two cents in w serious manor, the meat industry is fucked up and should be regulated, since you didn’t take my initial comment as the shitpost it is
there are moral concerns but for most people (majority will never even know what lemmy is) simply don’t care and will never care, because meat tastes good
Pushing people into corners is what good debate is about. If people find their refutations are weak enough to have them back into a corner, then they should abandon that argument.
I grew up on a farm in the south of New Zealand. My brothers were dairy farmers, my front yard was cattle, I was a staunch anti-vegan who swore he’d never eat vegetarian as long as he lived.
I will never care because meat tastes good. Except now I do.
There is no level of regulation that permits - in good moral conscience - the subjugation and slaughter of animals for our pleasure.
Meat is only easily accessible because it is heavily subsidized by the government. A vegan diet is nearly always cheaper - consider that most developing nations eat vegan/vegetarian because of this.
There’s a short book I read that absolutely convinced me of veganism called “This is Vegan Propaganda and Other Lies The Meat Industry Tells You”. I’ve had 5 people read it, and ALL FIVE have gone vegan. It’s straight up insane how brutal a grip the meat industry has on people, through lobbying, ad campaigns, purposeful obfuscation of the industry. Bananas!
No, humans taste nasty all joking aside. Also prions. Don’t eat your own kind, there are reasons for this.
That’s why I said “avoiding the brain and spine, to avoid prion diseases”. You might have misread my comment.
do you trust the processing facilities for the underground dogmeat industry to even come close to choosing safety over profit in shaving that meat down as close to cartilage as possible?
Oh we’re talking about eating humans now, we’re well past dogs as it seems like a fair few people here would be okay with factory farming them.
Personally, my ethics are simple and easily define - if it displays sentience, I won’t eat it. It’s unethical to kill and eat something that feels pain. I’m more interested in your more nebulous ethics, where some species are okay to eat, some not
It sounds like you’re okay with eating dogs, which id argue is demonstrably disgusting, but in your opinion, is it okay to rear, kill and then eat humans?
Thats a fine slippery slope argument u got there and like always its complete shit, people are people and animals are animals.
I’m not suggesting that animal eating leads to cannibalism, which WOULD be a slippery slope.
I’m suggesting that if meat eaters are okay with killing and eating animals, why not the human animal? I probe because the line drawn in the sand is unclear with meat eaters.
Also, humans are animals. This is primary school stuff here.
What separates eating animals from eating people for you?
The fact that you are eating your own species, which is cannibalism.
Right, but what’s inherently wrong with eating your own species? I mean, I know, I think any sentient life shouldn’t be killed for my pleasure. But with your logic that some species are okay to kill and eat, and others aren’t, I’m wanting to know why those others aren’t.
Ignoring “societal norms”, as they’ve been used to commit genocide, slavery, and all manner of atrocities - why is cannibalism logically, in your opinion, bad?
TBH, I’d expect them to be a bit gamey, especially cats.
My concern with eating dogs and cats (which I have) is how they were fed. There isn’t a lot of health safety concern with those kinds of underground meat sources can sometimes feed dead livestock back to the populace and that can cause all numbers of prion and parasitic concerns.
I will eat your babies!
then u will starve
Good man.
Elwood dog farm
Ok now I’m angry it was a joke. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find organic free range husky?!
That does sound intriguing. How does it taste?
Gamey unless reared correctly. Better to eat pet dogs as the meat generally tastes juicier. It can sometimes be unpleasant bolting them before slitting their throats after they’ve lived inside for so long, but knowing they lived a happy life free of predators, and didn’t die of old age (try to kill before they become yearlings) makes it feel right.
Try Harder.
What? Try harder to what? Don’t defend yourself in court hahahaha. “Does the defense have any closing statements?” “Uh yes your honour. Ahem. leans into mic t-try harder”
Apologies but this is just assumptions. Pet meat isn’t good quality. Your average commercial pet food uses hydrogenated oils for shelf longevity and that causes a very bitter flavor.
farm raised dog is usually fed on grain and suet or tallow, and avoids this problem.
I’m fine with gamey meat, lots of hunters in the family. Sounds interesting, I might try it sometime.
Knock it off with the trolling nonsense
It’s pretty obvious you’re a troll
We are well aware of the dog meat troll tactic from vеgаns
Hypothetical moral questions posed genuinely is not trolling. If you’re okay with eating cows and pigs, why is eating dogs considered trolling?
it’s bad faith
I have no intent to deceive. There’s a moral inconsistency amongst meat eaters. Pigs are okay, dogs are not. Why? “Oh, because we like dogs” Does that mean I can eat any sentient thing I dislike? “Well, no, dogs are intelligent!” Pigs are smarter than most breeds of dog, and have equal capabilities for emotion.
There is no logical argument against veganism in western society. Literally none. Meat eaters collectively breed and kill literally billions of animals per year, destroying the planet, because it’s yummy. Meat eaters have essentially caused swine flu, bird flu, ebola, corona virus, just for the taste of meat. Meat eaters are causing treatment resistant bacteria by abusing antibiotics on high intensity farming, all for meat. That’s crazy.
it’s clearly a gotcha. that’s bad faith.
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there is no logical argument for a lot of things, its just culture. and it is tasty and thats all that need be said.
There’s a lot of awful things in culture. It was culturally acceptable to slap a women on the bottom for a good job.
Your argument is “ah well”.
That’s not a reasonable defense for your objectively immoral actions. You are causing the suffering of sentient life for taste, that makes you immoral. Not to mention the horrible effect your diet has on the planet.
Listen brother, I eat meat but if you go into a vegan post and get into an argument about veganism, you’re not being trolled, you’re the troll.
It doesn’t help that the vegans are right. The meat industry is a nightmare, terrible for the environment, and pretty bad for our health.
It’s insane that most Americans eat meat every day.
If I could put 100% tax on meat tomorrow I would, but that’s political suicide, so it’ll never happen. It’d be easier to adjust than you think. There are plenty of delicious vegetarian options, and it’d be a lot easier to choose those if they were more common.
I eat meat because it’s culturally acceptable, delicious, ubiquitous, and I don’t believe I can make a noticeable difference. But that doesn’t mean I think it’s right.
I don’t believe I can make a noticeable difference.
Not eating meat won’t change the systemic problems but it will mean fewer animals will be subject to the industry. Over the course of a lifetime, the number of animals you can save adds up.
Also it’s a good habit to transfer thoughts and beliefs into actions.
Not eating meat won’t change the systemic problems but it will mean fewer animals will be subject to the industry.
more animals are breed and slaughtered every year than the year before. being vegan has never reduced that
Yeah no shit, but the number would be even higher if fewer people were vegan.
What bizarre logic, what thorough lack of object permanence.
Just because meat eating outpaces veganism doesn’t mean vegans haven’t reduced the consumption of meat?
I don’t even think you know what you’re saying now. If the whole world went vegan today, there’d be no meat animal slaughter. YOU are the cause of this problem.
“Oh world hunger is getting worse, I better stop my charity donations!”
“Oh greenhouse gas emissions are on the rise, might as well go back to oil and gas!”
Like, you realise how foolish that argument is, right?
Upvoting, because while I don’t eat meat myself, I like people who are consistent.
If you’re okay with eating a pig, don’t judge those you eat a dog.
I mean, people hardly ever eat carnivores. Even pigs, which are omnivores, are 90% of the time herbivores. I don’t even eat meat, but this argument never made sense to me. Yes, there are countries where people eat dogs, but that doesn’t mean dogs and cats are equivalent to cattle. You can make an argument for horses though.
Horse meat does taste pretty good
If prepped properly, still needs a milk soak.
The argument works for a Western audience that are okay with killing and eat some animals, but find it abhorrent to eat others. Most people don’t like the idea of dogs in pain, and if we did rear dogs like we do pigs, there would be huge public outcry.
And sure, you get Redditors and Lemmy-ites who go “Oh ho i’d eat dog!”, but they mean they’d try the meat once at a market, to maintain moral consistency. The truth is they’d be just as horrified if they saw dogs yelping in factory farmed cages, like we treat chickens.
But there’s no reason to treat some animals one way, some another. They all feel pain, they all feel misery, they all call for their children once they’ve been culled. It’s objectively immoral to eat meat when not for necessity.
How do you measure how much misery a cod feels?
Edit: sorry that was a bit snarky. I don’t think you’re completely off the mark but I would think an animal needs at least a nervous system to experience pain, so there are categories to consider and it may be morally virtuous to abstain from eating some animals but not necessarily immoral, and we should be careful to anthropomorphize other animal emotional states.
So fish have nociceptors, and a brain that connects to them, and they avoid painful stimuli. They have analgesic response systems in their brain to dull painful stimuli. Even the most cautious interpetation of misery would include pain, so I would not kill and eat it. Fish display sentience, therefore it is immoral to kill them for pleasure.
Plants process pain and can communicate with other plants.
By your logic it is immoral to mow your grass.
No serious study suggests plants feel pain. They do not have a brain or central nervous system. At most, they respond to stimuli.
Many more plants “die” for animal feeding than with a vegan diet.
If you’re worried about grass pain, you should focus more on the animals that DO have nociceptors, central nervous systems and brains, and the ability to feel fear that you subject them too, purely for taste preference.
Maybe I’m off on this but suffering/misery would include pain + the emotional state of unhappiness or we would just use pain for both? Avoiding painful stimuli doesn’t tell me about their emotional state or cognitive awareness of the pain, just an awareness of the stimuli.
Agreed
Same for dead plants and mushrooms tho.
porque no los dos
?
Tried and true
Real
And yet, when it’s people, there’s a problem. Such a double standard 🙄
Hey, speak for yourself! Some of us take communion…
Totally missed touch along with many other senses.
- Killing with my bare hands let’s me feel the life leaving their bodies
- Killing while standing on one leg balances my desires for vengeance
- Feasting upon the flesh of those I murder satiates the hunger within me
- I become lost in the blood frenzy, all sense of time vanishing
want to see a westerner have a full on tantrum? Suggest to them that their actions are not always morally neutral
The smug, always morally neutral easterners:
Look up the prevalence of veganism
The smug, eternally morally superior vegan:
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I really hope it’s a cultural difference, but where I’m from, calling someone a ‘morally inferior feminine whiner’ “having a full on tantrum” because they said something you dislike with is frowned upon.
Flattening “I deserve to murder terrified children slaves because I’m a picky eater” to “something I dislike” is a bigger offense than your misquote.
But your description of the carnists in this thread is not inaccurate, minus the misogyny you’re illiterately trying to paint me with.
But no matter what, wherever there’s suffering; wherever there’s exploitation, there’s a .world account defending it in the most trite, superficial way possible.
smug, eternally morally superior vegan Yay! me 🥰 also: 😏
I mean, Vegans are morally superior, that’s a solved question.
Can anyone downvoting this explain how vegans are not morally superior?
- Not a vegan btw
I would be very surprised. I am not even fully vegan myself, people just don’t want to confront their own moral issues.
Thry certainly earn the smug reputation
This isn’t about being smug or not. Veganism is morally superior as long as you consider that animals suffer for Human Consumption, envionmental impacts of animal products far outweigh vegan alternatives, and humans can get all of their nutrition from vegan sources.
The reason humans eat meat is for pleasure and profit, neither of which can be considered “morally superior” to the benefits of Veganism.
They’re better than you and it should be known.
no, they’re not
Yes, they are, unless you can make the argument that animal suffering and environmental destruction are good things.
being vegan doesn’t do anything about those
I hate these filthy Neutrals. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
yeah, yummy meat. I like it a lot. Sometimes i salt it than dry it myself, and god, does it taste delicious. I might be bothered by the cruelty of all this meat industry, but guess what, if i were to choose, i’d rather be a farm pig. Anything actually that does not comprehend the cruelty of this reality, and i’m not talking about farms here. Also, unlike most of us they go away quickly.
P.S. fyi, latest studies show that plants might also feel the pain. Sorry to disappoint you guys, but it seems like we are just doomed to bring more suffering in this world. You better find a way to cope with this before it became more researched.
The MFs in hungary, finland and the uk pretending that blood is a freaking ingredient and cooking “food” from it.
What’s your problem with that? I’m not into it myself but I can’t see how it’s any different from eating meat in the first place
Blood is an ingredient in many other countries. We have blood sausages (morcilla) in Spain, and they’re common in many other places too
There sure is a lot of vegan propaganda on Lemmy. It’s very annoying and not particularly memey.
I am a lot more convinced by the environmental arguments to veganism.
To each their own, motivations for veganism vary vastly. My dad was hardcore vegan for over 25 years and never ever did he care about animals or the environment. He was vegan out of (for a lack of a better term) health beliefs. Nowadays he eats mussels and raw cheese and egg yolks.
Pork has no fucking business being that damn tasty.
Its like its begging to be cooked.
I would join vegan standards but I still wait for the “eat the rich” part. I mean who would do it? Those vegans? no. This is a job for meat lovers.
Eating the rich is vegan, as they are not sentient and don’t feel pain.
But please stop paying for animal abuseno one is paying for animal abuse
Found the person that is
Literally billions of people are. Do you think meat just spontaneously appears in the supermarket?
Literally billions of people are.
no, they aren’t.
Compost the rich and use them to fertilize the fields.
Just don’t grow mushrooms or potatoes in billionaire compost. They have a tendency to uptake heavy metals from their nutrient source, and no one wants lead in their mushroom soup or mashed potatoes.
mmmm animal flesh inbetween my teeth. Fking amazing.
But not swine. Fk swine.
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Thank you! It’s been fun so far! :)
The whole taste argument completely ignores nutrition.
Why don’t you only eat potatoes? Do you derive taste pleasure from B12 supplements?
Attaching a system of morality to a diet is just religion.
I maintain that veganism is just halal/kosher for atheists/agnostics.
Do you derive taste pleasure from B12 supplements?
The store stocks them with raspberry and mango taste, so yes? I have no idea what your point is, though.
Attaching a system of mortality to a diet is just religion
… what? I’m sorry, but this simply doesn’t make sense at all. By this logic what is wrong with cannibalism? Attaching a system of morality to that diet would just be a religion right? And I’m sure eating human meat has all kinds of nutrients.
The experiences of animals are real and matter. Their suffering is identical in nature to your own. Your moral perspective demands that you deny or ignore these facts. If you can deny that an animal’s experience has any value, you can do the same to a human.
