I have a CS Masters degree and it says engineer on it.
As long as they don’t start building tunnels under their house because they’re an ‘engineer’…
🎶 … trust me, Im an engineer I think I put this thing right here … 🎶
Nobody give them stamps!
And this why i aim to get a PhD.
So you can get banned from Tinder for impersonating a doctor?
(I too have a PhD. I feel your pain)
I just want to get a PhD so I can start my mad science career on the right foot.
A player hater’s degree? Oh hell yeah!
can we ban web developers who call themselves “developers”?
also php programmers who call themselves anything?
As if webapps aren’t usurping mobile and desktop apps, anything not C# or .NET is a toy language?
c# and .net? ewww…
gimme c, c++, go, rust, ruby, python…
and umm, no dude, native apps are a lot more powerful than web apps… they are not usurped at allthere’s more of them, but there’s more scooters than motorcycles…
Scooters are more efficient, get you where you need to go and cost less to maintain. Your analogy is actually pretty good in that regard.
yeah and they only get you around the neighborhood, any actual distance and a motorcycle is infinitely better…
but, it figures you’d miss that, since you’re a dumby dumbo mcpoopoo head webdevPlease refrain of using offensive words, specially if you are trying to actually communicate an idea that is by all means demeaning to other people. The community is about humour, keep that in mind ;)
word, “dumb ass” was supposed to be a joke too, but i edited it to be less offensive
Now you’re throwing ad hominem around. You don’t need to be toxic to communicate your point, web development did at one point have a lot of growing to do and I can admit that there is still plenty of progress to be made. In 2024 however, ignoring the web ecosystem as any type of developer is purely traditionalist elitism.
bruh, this is programming_humor… chill, im sure you’re a fine human being
So if I’m using Rust to write a web app that compiles to WebAsm, what am I?
a dingo
To be fair, we do develop stuff. Nothing implies quality, so it’s not like we’re misrepresenting anything. Personally, anyone who calls themselves a software engineer and works with any web-related technology (PHP, JavaScript, etc) are the ones to be shunned.
I’m a full-stack web developer and am involved all the way through including cloud infrastructure, API development, database creation/maintenance, test automation, architecture etc.
I guess what makes a “developer” in your context different? Embedded? Kernel?
Only those who code in the same language as I am can be called developers. Everyone else is just an impostor and their technology doesn’t matter! Real programmers use my language of choice
Have you heard about our lord and savior Rust? 🙏
If you don’t daily x86 assembly, do you even know anything about computers?
🖕
sorry, my browser doesn’t support unicode
Just like my
$variablesI can be anything I want. Deal with it! 🫳🎤Nah, no need for this kind of gatekeeping. Anyone who deals with js and its billions of frameworks on a daily basis deserves to be called a developer.
Agreed.
We also deserve to be called, every so often, to see how we’re doing.
Heyyy its your super duper new project manager! I hope you are feeling a-mazing because you are my a-ce on the team. Anyways i need you to do things twice as fast, because we are running low on budget after sales promised another feature without extra billing and the CEO already signed off on it. Please make this happen somehow. If this project isn’t succesfull i’ll get fired and have to sell the house. But no pressure!
Do you even know why you hate PHP?
For me, it was this
https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mysql-real-escape-string.php
Note that that hasn’t existed in PHP for years.
deleted by creator
Never used it in over 23 years of using PHP. Also, I don’t thing that has existed anymore for the past 10 years or so?
Seriously, if we’re going to do this, can we also bitch about painful java apps from 10 years ago, or the hilariously shitty modules in node from 10 years ago? I can go on for a while, but you hopefully get the point.
The question was why do I hate it, and it was because of this. I don’t understand your confusion.
My confusion is that you hate it tosay because someone over a decade ago wrote 10 times the same complaint that was mostly fixed already since about a decade ago
Blame MySQL for that. The PHP API just mirrors the MySQL C API of the same name. https://dev.mysql.com/doc/c-api/8.0/en/mysql-real-escape-string.html
Modern PHP doesn’t use it - any modern code uses PDO with prepared statements.
yeah, i’ve used it and it’s absolutely trash…
but here’s an article that sums up my feelings: https://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/That is literally a decade old article with basically 1 complaint that sometimes functions are strpos() and sometimes str_len(). Anything else it’s saying is “I don’t even know how to say it”. Really now? Any of your complaints have been fixed since about a decade ago, so why don’t you give it a try?
lol, no…
also this is a joke sub so stop trying to sea lion me about it.
also your “summation” of the article is pretty stupid
That article is over a decade old. A lot of these issues aren’t relevant any more or have been fixed. Some weren’t even PHP issues, for example mysql_real_escape_string is a MySQL API (https://dev.mysql.com/doc/c-api/8.0/en/mysql-real-escape-string.html).
PHP isn’t the best language, but it’s not as bad as some people claim it to be, especially if you use a good framework like Laravel.
lol, no… it sucks
trust me, if you’ve already gotten used to php, you’re smart enough to learn a better language.
really just use node if you’re going that sorta route…Nice troll
JavaScript has a lot of the same issues as PHP. It doesn’t have some of the same core library issues because it doesn’t have a good core library.
oh and, adding a library isn’t very hard
Adding a third-party library in PHP is just as easy. The
composer.jsonfile looks very similar to apackage.json.
ECMA 6 has had drastic improvements over the past js…
however node is still infinitely better than php, and since javascript is inexorably a part of web development, it’s a lot more logical to use it on the backend too…i don’t mean that node is great, i mean that it’s an easy transition from php, a billion times better, and much more modern and useful… so a very natural transition…
ECMA 6 has had drastic improvements over the past js…
Sure, but it still lacks basic built-in features. For example, why do maps and sets not have sort or filter methods? In Node, why is there no built-in way to connect to a database of any sort? Why can Node.js apps only use a single time zone? Requiring libraries for everything is not ideal as the libraries vary wildly in quality and they can end up either abandoned or containing malware (which has happened several times in the Node ecosystem).
still infinitely better than php
They each have their pros and cons, depending on use case. Node.js does some things better than PHP, but the opposite is true too.
- You can build a whole PHP website without using any third-party libraries, and it’ll work on any web host that supports PHP (literally any good web host that exists today). There’s value in having that level of flexibility.
- You can build a PHP site today and it’ll mostly still be working (maybe with some minor changes) in 5 years, whereas for some of my Node.js sites I have to switch to an older version of Node just to build them. For example https://obviousspoilers.com/ has been practically untouched since 2009.
- The fact that PHP can run multiple apps in the same FPM process means that you can run thousands of sites on a single server without issues. There’s some non-Node solutions to this (like Cloudflare workers) but they’re mostly proprietary at the moment.
- There are more PHP than Node.js jobs, and far more sites use PHP. Wordpress uses PHP and powers over 40% of the web, so that means that at least 40% of all websites use PHP.
I mean, engineering is really problem solving, and not do we web developers solve problems. We may have made most of them ourselves, and new ones when we solve those, but we do solve problems.
Engineering is the use of scientific knowledge to achieve specific goals.
The term engineering is not about problem-solving, especially when differentiated from development. Engineering is about deliberate understanding and decision-making, about giving it an architecture, a structure.
You can develop without any structure, solving an issue, without understanding a bigger context or picture or behavior. But that’s not engineering.
they should also ban web developers who refer to themselves as ninjas, especially code ninjas
Ninjas, super-heroes, black-belt and terms like that are known gender-excluders. I’ve been through a couple of adjustment sessions for company standard job descriptions and it’s unreal how you can change the applicant mix by wording.
What if you do it ironically? Like calling yourself a Code Ninja Jedi 10x Rockstar 🚀?
Ah yes, I’ve spent decades cringing when I meet a self-proclaimed or even peer-proclaimed “rockstar”, “ninja”, “guru”, “jedi”, or probably a half dozen other “cool” designations for a tech worker.
rockstar
We fixed that one: https://codewithrockstar.com/
Bullshit. This started long ago. We’re deep in the midst of it now.
@LinearArray Deleted Tinder around a week ago.
It used to be really good back in 2012-2014 but not anymore I think.
Try fetlife
Try Grindr
@ILikeBoobies
Interesting 😄
It was good… when dating apps were considered socially taboo lol.
@TankovayaDiviziya
True haha. But also the the algorithm was better. When Tinder needed to cash in for the investors the quality dropped because then the focus became about making money more than it’s about satisfying the users. We have to remember that if you get a match which gets into a relationship, Tinder loses two customers.
So you continued to use it for 10 years before deleting it, or you just got on and the hype didn’t live up to expectations?
@Tikiporch
I used it until around a week ago.It was just a habit when I was single and then a week ago I finally evaluated that habit and realized that the quality had actually dropped in 2017 when I got back onto the app after a 3 years long relationship.
What if they are actually a software engineer, with a cert? >_>;
I have worked with actual cert’d engineers on web projects, lol
with a cert
Engineering isn’t usually a cert. It’s a degree. I have a Bachelor of Engineering, majoring in Software Engineering. There’s probably a cert level qualification in software development, and frankly it’s probably just as good at producing effective software developers as an engineering degree, but it would be misleading, if you claim that only those with some particular qualification can call themselves engineers, for the qualification to be a cert.
In Canada the Cert and the Degree are separate.
You typically through getting your degree also become certified, but the key is while your degree lasts forever, the Cert has to be maintained and renewed.
Cert has a lifetime and expires and you have to keep it up to date.
In Alberta for example the regulatory authority is APEGA: https://alis.alberta.ca/occinfo/certifications-in-alberta/engineer/
I think even technically the license is also a separate piece of paperwork.
Degree: you completed school at some point
Cert: up to date on current practices, must be maintained, requires the degree
License: you are legally allowed to practice in the province/country and have registered. Requires degree+cert
Ah right, you’re talking certification. I was thinking certificate, because “Certificate I – Certificate IV” are very common less-than-Bachelor qualifications where I live, usually shortened to Cert I–Cert IV.
Obviously the terms “certificate” and “certification” are etymologically basically identical, but their meaning when it comes to the type of qualifications they represent are significantly different.
It’s a license issued by the state. As in, “you could go to jail for practicing engineering without a license.”
(Source: was on track to become a licensed civil engineer until I decided to do software “engineering” instead.)
software “engineering”
See, the thing is, software engineering in Australia is engineering. My degree was accredited by Engineers Australia and had the same requirements as a civil or mechanical engineering degree.
Of course, it definitely is still the black sheep of the engineering world. In the vast majority of (possibly all) cases, practising as an actual engineer is no different from practising as someone with a different degree (like IT or computer science), practising with a lower-level qualification like a certificate, or practising after being entirely self-taught.
In the US, to become a licensed engineer you need to get an accredited bachelor’s degree in it, and then pass the “Fundamentals of Engineering” exam to become a state-licensed “Engineer in Training (EIT),” and then work in the field for four years, and then pass the “Principles and Practice of Engineering” exam to become a state-licensed “Professional Engineer (PE).” The degree is just the first step.
Does Australia let civil engineers certify construction plans straight out of college? (Answer: apparently – and surprisingly – some states do!)
Fwiw in my previous comment’s second paragraph when I said “practising as an engineer” that meant “practising as a [software] engineer”. I wasn’t claiming that that’s how it works for all fields of engineering, but pointing out specifically how software engineering is more similar to degrees in computer science, IT, or being self taught.
eit
I mean who cares? But also why? My old job title was “software engineer” and I just did web dev.
it’s satire
This is a new satire site, right? These days it’s getting harder and harder to differentiate between reality and fiction in tech. The rest of their posts are pretty much spot on.
It’s sort of based in reality. In general most software jobs are closer to technician work than engineering these days. However, there definitely are lots of software jobs which do qualify as engineering.
I don’t take any article post or comment seriously anymore. Between the era of misinformation and advancements in AI, my trust in the internet is at an all time low.
Make your own decisions, second guess everything
Thanks, I didn’t even notice. It’s not a normal decision that would be made, but sometimes there’s weird stuff buried deep in the paperwork.
Reality in Canada.
You can be web dev with an engineering degree
It’s a good thing that Engineer is a protected profession and not everyone can claim it, like Lawyer or Doctor.
In the US now it’s “oh you’re an engineer? Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?”
I disagree, I believe the regulatory agencies do nothing in Canada to legitimize their claim to regulating software development. Heck, they do nothing for electronics or semiconductors or anything smaller than the power grid.
Software development is done by developers. If you are a software engineer chances are you’re working on software infrastructure that actually apply at scales that are not “add a shopping cart to this blog”.
There are reasons you ask a civil engineer for work.
If you’re a software engineer, you’re applying an engineering process to the field of software development. Adding a shopping cart to a blog can be a perfectly sound solution to the problem at hand.
Engineering becomes more important at scale, but scale itself doesn’t define engineering.
That’s missing the point. Engineers perform at a specific level. You don’t expect civil engineers to build the bridge. Can they do it? Sure. But that’s not the profession. Same with Structural Engineers, Chemical Engineers, Industrial Engineers, etc. They are at a higher level in the planification and execution process and will likely have signatory responsibilities on the project. If the bridge falls, the engineer does have explaining to do.
The equivalent for a software engineer would be (in the US) more at the level of architect with responsibilities higher than developers.
But engineers is not a protected term so everyone is an engineer now.
That’s a very arbitrary delineation that just seems to be something you worked out backwards to support your claim. I’m an EE and software developer and I sometimes do projects involving both fields (which would be computer engineering, I guess), and there’s really not that much difference. I certainly don’t see why I would label half of it engineering and the other half not.
You missed my point that if professional engineering societies in Canada want to take ownership of software and electronics, they better do something and not just say they’re regulating it and sit on it with no clear definition for what it even is.
If they were doing their job, we wouldn’t need to debate what a software engineer is. They’ve let us down and they’re getting away with it.
They’re regulating engineering of software and electronics.
From Engineers Canada;
In the case of software engineering, a piece of software (or a software-intensive system) can therefore be considered an engineering work if both of the following conditions are true:
• The development of the software required “the application of a systematic, disciplined, quantifiable approach to the development, operation, and maintenance of software.”
• There is a reasonable expectation that failure or inappropriate functioning of the system would result in harm to life, health, property, economic interests, the public welfare, or the natural environment.
That does seem to me well defined. If you disagree then it’s okay.
Edit: taken from this: https://engineerscanada.ca/sites/default/files/public-policy/professional-practice-software-engineering-en.pdf which also add context.
I cannot speak about electronics as my education was in software engineering.
Not so much well defined as fancy words. There is no example of a paying software development job that has no economic impact if the software were to fail.
If I ran a small shopify page for goat feed, I’d be an engineer for making sure the site stayed working so farmers could order their feed. It could even put lives at risk!
It really only excludes someone privately working on a video game for fun.
So given that, what are they actually regulating? What are they providing to their members to help them become better “software engineers”. I say it’s nothing at all? +
The name of the website is a play on the satire website the onion, it’s satire.
Honestly, nobody should call themselves an engineer unless they literally drive trains for a living.
Or they build trebuchets
Driving a train is engineering?
In North America, the driver of a train engine is called an “engineer”, yes.
See I’d call that a conductor
See I thought a conductor was a person who grabs a live main wire while standing in water.
In the US, a conductor is the one who checks tickets, makes announcements, and delegates tasks to the crew to help ensure things keep moving on time.
The locomotive engineer is the one who is “driving” the train. They run the engine and communicate with dispatch and traffic control to keep them informed where this particular train is fitting into the overall juggling act,. They also make every effort to keep things safe (watching for signals, obstructions, etc.).
I’m not 100% sure if the terminology is different outside of the Us.
(Source: My father is a 3rd generation locomotive engineer.)
I see, TIL. That’s different from Germany, where Ingenieur is a protected term.
In the railway context an engineer was the person who worked the engine.
In German the word comes from Latin roughly meaning inventor. Presumably the general usage of the word engineer in English has the same etymology.
In many countries the term “engineer” is a protected title.
Yes, driving trains is becoming more and more important as we find out how terrible cars are for the environment. We should protect the profession fiercely!
Funny and infromative
Infrastructure erasure in the states is so bad that people who build it for a living aren’t even considered anymore.
What if my job title says that? Who’s going to tell my employer they’re wrong.
Then again, “full stack software engineer” as a title might also well just be buzzwords.
!And yes, I know the site is satire lol.!<
I liken a software engineer to someone like an architect. Architects will spend countless hours doing research, sketching out designs, creating documentation and presentations, and maybe even building to-scale models. But one thing they don’t do is actually build their designs. The constructions workers do that. And in the case of software (be it web or otherwise), those people are the developers.
Now, there are exceptions to every rule. I acknowledge that - especially in computing - it’s possible to blur lines. But I still feel there many more developers than there are real software engineers.
But architects aren’t engineers either! We have engineers in building construction, they are called engineers.
They ensure all required calculations are done, all safety standards are adhered to, they complete detailed designs, and they sign off on a project legally so things like quotes and timelines have legal teeth.
And, unlike engineers in manufacturing whose deep-pocket corporations bought an exemption, Engineers in the A/E/C field are licensed. And if you screw up you can lose your ability to work in your field…forever.
I haven’t met an “engineer” who isn’t developing code. This is such a weird distinction. The people asking for a design are the customer, the high level design handled by the product manager, the nitty gritty is handled by the software engineers. Some businesses may make a distinction for payroll purposes but there is no prevailing standard.
Unless you know what “full stack” means.
This is not a new kind of policy for Tinder. In the past, PhDs in Social Sciences were banned for impersonating ‘doctors’.
How were they impersonating doctors? How does Tinder verify any of these claims?
First of all, it’s a pretty obvious joke.
In this case, the joke is: “people with a PhD are doctors. It’s a doctorate. But the field of social sciences is not real science, and thus shouldn’t count as a doctorate.”
I get the joke, what I don’t get is how one can impersonate a doctor on Tinder. Are people wearing lab coats in their pictures or something?
The joke isn’t that they’re impersonating a medical professional. It’s that they’re impersonating the title of “doctor” by claiming a PhD. Someone with an Art History PhD is a doctor, but the joke here is that they aren’t really deserving of that title.
Dude, I get the bloody joke!
I’m very specifically asking how they are impersonating it on Tinder. Is it a picture? Is there a field in Tinder you can fill out with your job title? Do they write it in the description?
And I’m asking how Tinder is verifying that.
Tinder isn’t verifying it. It’s just a joke.
Is there a field in Tinder you can fill out with your job title?
Yes
And I’m asking how Tinder is verifying that.
They’re not. It’s fake
Oh, I see now. It’s a satire article! Given I don’t use Tinder and have seen exclusive dating apps, it really wasn’t far-fetched.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Lol. tinder fact checks bios? Hilarious…
Now this is the kind of ‘news’ I’d like to see posted on hackernews just to read their techbro shit takes.
