So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.
For example I would say:
“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.
Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.
So what are some better options?
Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.
The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.
A wise man once said, “I’m a dude, he’s a dudes, she’s a dude. We’re all dudes. Hey!”
Out of the mouth of babes… 🥰
I believe that sentiment was also uttered by another wise man. A man of his time. Mr. Jeffrey Lebowski.
Strange though, that when you ask most men how many dudes they’ve slept with suddenly, she’s not a dude…
Ive generally always agreed with the former comment, but I’ve heard this argument a few times and it does demonstrate the disconnect well. I’ve switched it up to a simple y’all.
Yep. Something that can only ever mean “neutral” or “man” isn’t neutral
As a former resident of San Diego I have no problem sleeping with dudes. Because everyone is dude.
People think they’re clever when they ask “would you sleep with the dude?” My response is " bold of you to assume that I haven’t." Everyone is dude. You can try to twist things as much as you like but dude normalization reigns supreme.
I was talking about the default assumptions people make when they hear the word. Your circumstances don’t come in to it, unless your claim is that most people share your experiences
In San Diego the default assumption of “dude” is that it can be literally anyone or any thing.
The people there accepted this decades ago. It’s not one person’s experience. It’s a shared experience of millions. It’s a geographically specific situation with the Smurf language phenomenon. Any noun can be Smurf and everyone there understands the smurfing meaning when it’s smurfing said.
There’s a very big difference between “dude”, referring to someone you’re talking to, and “a dude”, referring to someone you were talking about.
Not to me there isn’t…
In the '60s, I made love to many, many women, often outdoors, in the mud and the rain, and it’s possible a man slipped in. There would be no way of knowing.
Then educate yourself. See definitions 1 and 2 for noun and definition for interjection.
It’s like the difference between “my shit”, “your shit”, and “that shit”. You’re not actually referring to your own things as feces, or calling it “shitty”. It’s just your shit. As in “Don’t touch my shit”. But when you’re referring to someone else’s shit as “your shit” or “that shit” it’s more derogatory. Like, “clean up that shit” or “get your shit out of here”.
The context changes “shit” from derogatory to neutral. Similarly, “dude” can be both gender specific and neutral depending on context.
Note that people are still allowed to prefer not to be referred to as “dude”, but it’s a gender neutral term in many contexts nonetheless.
That’s just how our language works. You can also use the word “fuck” in many ways that have wildly different meanings.
It’s funny how “just how it works out” always leads to “neutral” words having double meanings that equal “man” but never “woman”
Maybe it’s not “just how it works” and maybe it’s just bias…
You’re literally arguing that this word should specifically exclude women, while complaining that double meanings never include women. It makes no sense. Why wouldn’t you want to take power over the word to make it apply to women too?
There is no world where “Check out that dude” will mean a woman.
It will always be “neutral” or masculine.
And that’s not neutral.
I have zero interest in fake neutrality
That’s because context matters.
“You’re shit” and “You’re the shit” mean completely different things
Of course. No one literally thinks that “dude” always means man.
The issue isn’t the obvious truth of the different meanings. The issue is that those different meanings aren’t neutral like they claim to be, because they rely on the idea of men being the “default” state of people.
There’s a reason there isn’t exactly a large number of words in use that can men “woman” and “everybody” and that’s because most men would be uncomfortable with that.
Yet somehow, the opposite is fine?
I’m just going out on a limb to remind people it’s totally ok to say sup man to legit anyone. People that care about that stuff are people you can choose to change it for if you want to be around that type of person.
I’m AFAB enby, saying “you guys” and calling me “dude” is fine. Those to me aren’t gendered anymore. The people who get offended at general terms like these for groups of people need to touch grass.
But if you’re dead set on it, embrace y’all lol. Just don’t say it with a southern drawl and you’ll be fine. It’s a fantastic gender neutral term. You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
No southern drawl? Y’all is like our one positive contribution don’t take it away from those of us who ain’t bigots
You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
This is likely the best solution, but also a hard one. Thanks for the perspective though.
Yeah I agree, bro, but I wouldn’t use guys or dudes on old ladies
Well no lol you gotta read the room sometimes 😅
“Offended” is a bit of a strong word.
Many trans folks are, understandably, bummed out when gendered terms that refer to their AGAB are used to refer to them.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to avoid causing that brief moment of dysphoria. That just feels like a thoughtful and kind thing to do.
It’s good that OP means well, but also there are so many of us who do not care and are not affected because we know the speaker is using a generalized term and isn’t (usually) being malicious with it. I call several of my cisgender girl friends “dude” and “bro” and I’ll call men “girl” as a joke sometimes (like, girl what are you doing?). Many of these terms simply have completely lost their original gendered meaning in a lot of contexts.
That’s great, and it’s nice that you don’t have to deal with that jolt of dysphoria in those situations.
I’m simply saying that it’s also common (and okay) to not be entirely comfortable with those terms. Especially from strangers or acquaintances.
I don’t think seeking to reduce the linguistic pattern of male as the default is a misguided effort.
I’m also on Team “these words have lost their meaning” but often feel opposite to OP’s intent
When people go out of their way to force inclusive language to a degree that feels unnatural, and especially when I’m the only trans person in the room, it feels like I’m being singled out for my identity. It’s extra uncomfortable when they make (often incorrect) assumptions about my body while doing so.
That said, I will also never fault someone for trying to be inclusive, and ofc always respect other people’s preferences.
Good point dude
Dude.
I’m a dude. He’s a dude, She’s a dude. We’re all dudes.
I like what they use on the Bananas Podcast. “Guys, gals, and non-binary pals.”
Y’all
“Yous badly-aimed batches of ejaculate”?
Greetings, Programs!
…User!
I just call everyone “man” and “dude”, irrespective of gender/sex ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You’re asking about a collective and also a singular…
Just in general I’d say that if you’re trying to quit a habit around trans women, go the extra mile and quit it around cis ones too. For the collective “hey guys” I have no one-word replacement (“folks/folx” sounds equally southern and somehow more cringe), but you could replace the whole phrase with “hey everybody”, “hi gang”, “how are you all”, or just “hey”.
When speaking to any woman, I would advise against calling them “dude” or “man.” Full stop. No further thoughts necessary on that one.
Just in general I’d say that if you’re trying to quit a habit around trans women, go the extra mile and quit it around cis ones too.
Sorry if it wasn’t clear enough, I’m looking for general terms to use for all people, regardless of their gender, not just trans people.
There have been some good examples for groups, but nothing that fits well for talking to one person directly.
My personal recommendation is to drop the extra title entirely. For everybody.
E.g. instead of saying “great work man” just say “great work.” It could help you prevent flubs later.
I do wish I knew some non-binary singular terms I could use, but none come to my mind
Yes, this seems to be the simplest answer, even if it will take a while to get used to.
I think I’m going to piggyback off inspiration of your question and ask my own, something like: “Enbies, how do you prefer partners or others refer to/about you?”
BTW, sorry for misunderstanding the goal of your post, but I appreciate your (and others’) replies here.
Choom(s).
Folks.
This is a great plural term, thanks.
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