So I made a comment on worldnews criticizing Chinese activity in the south china sea and apparently got banned for it by the automod. This happen to anyone else? Is this Lemmy’s version of the need help post and the shape of things to come?
The instance I posted in was Lemmy.ml
The Thread you posted to was https://apnews.com/article/malaysia-china-australia-anwar-ibrahim-b4d75a8423b5265bec1a05d69231965f
and you dismissed all the other guys in the thread posting nuance with this vibes-based comment:
Based on what china is doing to fishing and military boats from the Philippines, I doubt they’re just after ‘transit’. They’re making a territorial claim. Not much different from Russia’s claim on Ukraine, except that its happening in international waters.
Your account is 4 days old. No one cares what color yankee you are mate.
take the L, read more, and maybe don’t only believe western narrative, and you’ll do just fine. Youll even learn something.
I reccommend you stick around and read things that challenge your worldview. you dont have to believe everything you read, but you should always critically analyze yourself and your position, just in case.
While I appreciate challenging my worldview, the issue with Lemmy.ml is the users who tend to uncritically accept Russian and Chinese propaganda, and many are very hostile to outside perspectives. If there were open and good faith discussion I think it would be of more value, but instead they just ban anyone with outside perspectives. This type of “discussion” has little to contribute to the broader community.
On this specific issue I really haven’t seen anything that challenges the idea that China is engaging in imperialism here. Do you have any recommended reading that challenges the western narrative?
Never mind mate. Apparently his version of expanding his worldview doesn’t involve ‘younger’ accounts. That tells me all I need to know.
To be fair, a new account posting flaming post does seems to be a troll account (not saying you are)
Well, having an opposing opinion doesn’t automatically make it flamebait also - I can’t help how people choose to behave. The comment was copied somewhere in here - no ad hominems, unlike one or two of the responses here (not yours). Just discussing the topic at hand and giving my opinions. Apparently some people don’t react well to contrary views.
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That was certainly rude but I’m trying to engage with everyone in good faith nonetheless. It’s hard but sometimes it pays dividends.
You sir, are a better person than I. One of them has since started deleting. Good thing I didn’t respond in kind.
Do you have any recommended reading that challenges the western narrative?
Id be happy to oblige if i can. Are you looking for something specific to the South China Sea?
I got a short timeline of domestic relations between manilla and beijing from reuter anyway to start the ball rollin’
Yeah I was asking about the South China Sea. I think the summation of events there supports what OP posted and I’m curious if there is any alternative viewpoint that is factually supported.
The link you posted seems in line with my and OP’s views on the conflict.
I thought it was a nice summary showing that the US is involved in building more military bases in the area. China appears worried about the US grabbing more hegemony and military strength along that important trade route.
Viewed through that lens it seems somewhat similar to the Cuban missile crisis, but i don’t want to get into a subjective battle comparing apples to oranges.
China is a rising political and economic force worldwide and the US has a vested interest in stopping them. I see no distinction between what they and we are doing.
Takes pressupposing US benevolence and Chinese imperialism kinda get me back up, and I’ve seen alot of editorialized and biased headlines from supposed unbiased sources that could be the source of these.
Generally i am gonna disagree with a blanket statement like OPs deleted one when i see so much shit like this:
Within that article lies this statement,7 paragraphs down:
“We don’t have any scientific study or any evidence that would suggest that cyanide fishing in Bajo de Masinloc can be attributed to the Chinese or the Vietnamese fishermen,” GMA News quoted a coast-guard spokesperson, Commodore Jay Tarriela, as saying.
But the title states it as fact.
Yeah I mean there is certainly a case to be made that US actions are threatening to China, and it’s also true that pro-US propaganda exists. These are good things to be aware of.
But I also think that this conversation about US vs Chinese interests does not adequately elevate the experiences of smaller countries in the region. Most of whom have voluntarily cooperated with the US to counter Chinese aggression.
Of course, it’s largely true that the US is pursuing their own interests in the region. But that fact does not mean we need to defend Chinese aggression. We should be looking at which actions are beneficial and liberatory to the people who live there, and which are harmful. In my view, Chinese activity is more harmful and imperialistic in the current context. But I am open to learning about and acknowledging the harms that the US is doing as well.
My issue with the Lemmy.ml perspective is that they view US actions in the most unfavorable light possible while viewing Chinese actions in the most positive light possible (usually in direct contradiction to the known facts). When this asymmetry in interpretation is pointed out, their community reacts with hostility or bans. Usually using some nebulous idea of racial prejudice as a justification.
It’s ironic because these are the exact same tactics used by apologists for Israel, which they absolutely hate over there. Authoritarians always use the same tactics it seems.
But I also think that this conversation about US vs Chinese interests does not adequately elevate the experiences of smaller countries in the region.
I am interested in this too, no sarcasm. Id like to read the perspective of the small countries caught up in this. Ill are if i can find anything interestinng.
We should be looking at which actions are beneficial and liberatory to the people who live there, and which are harmful
Neither actions of either country attempting to control trade and resources in the South China Sea will be liberatory, and i am cynical of a major material benefit for the people of the region.
In my view, Chinese activity is more harmful and imperialistic in the current context
I would like to hear more about that context. The context of the harm to the small countries? How are Chinese actions more imperialistic than the US actions there?
I think we could talk more probably! Ill see what i can find
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The issue is that I really don’t see people defending American imperialism on Lemmy. It is widely acknowledged and condemned, and if I saw people defending it, I would criticize it as well.
But none of that makes China not imperialist also. So when I see people defending the violence that the Chinese government inflicts on their neighbors and particularly minority and dissident groups within China, I have no choice but to call it out. The scope of their empire is smaller and weaker but empires are not capable of benevolence.
Imagine how you would feel if people were here saying “No, it’s good what the Americans did to your country and your family”. That’s the exact rhetoric we see from China’s defenders, and that’s why it needs to be called out.
And concern troll is no longer a term that has any meaning whatsoever thanks to folks like you who constantly misuse it.
The issue is also people getting banned for a comment like the one quoted. There’s nothing in there that’s worthy of a ban under any reasonable set of mod rules.
Yes. And not did I NOT slag the entire group as accused, it seems the only issue was that I was not parroting the hive speak. Instead of engaging in discourse like a mature adult, and ‘expanding their world view’, they and some other users are content to weild the ban hammer like an insecure child/ trumpist/ dictator. I believe in people’s right to speak, even if I disagree with their message, which seems to include the very things we in SEA are concerned about.
Their comment is perfectly innocuous. Unless they require college level debate and citations for every comment, there’s nothing wrong with it.
Criticizing a government for taking an imperial action should never be forbidden. And make no mistake, China’s neighbors there certainly seem to feel like China is significantly overreaching.
The .ml stands for Marxist /Leninist.
Funny, communists always insist China isn’t communist at all, so why would they care about it being criticized?
Tankies aren’t that type of communist, that is, sane. Tankies are auth rights disguised as leftists.
Aren’t tankies authoritarian leftists? What’s “right” about them?
Marx encouraged fascist dictatorships as a method to bring about the proletariat revolution.
And this is why dictators love the, “give me just a little more power and once it’s secured I’ll hand it all back to the people, pinky swear” schtick.
Source?
If you go by the origin of the division and their definitions, they certainly are right. Authoritarian gov means centralising power. People arguing for the Ancient Regime were also pushing better for the people rethoric.
Besides, they are supporting a state that is closest to a nazi state. russia.
I love this.
I disagree, they’re firmly authleft, the problem is “auth.”
Being authoritarian about leftist ideals doesn’t secretly make you right wing because “authoritarian = right wing.” Leftism isn’t “when good,” you can have bad leftists and pretending otherwise is nothing more than delusion.
Potatoes potatoes.
communists always insist China isn’t communist
I can think of at least 95M Communists who don’t insist this.
But modern American leftists are increasingly in love with China, particularly with their HSR and Tech programs.
Because the only stance that tankies actually hold is “America bad”, to the degree that anyone that is an opponent of America must automatically be good and must be supported at all costs
The communists who say China isn’t communist aren’t the ones that go to bat for them.
Also, Mali
Did the Lemmy developers register the name under the .ml TLD because they are such fans of Mali? Maybe but probably not.
Because the domains are literally free
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The Chinese government is downrite evil. I don’t understand what mistakes needed to be made to allow a cartoon villain level of tyrannical human rights violating government to be put in place, and still exist.
Yes, I posted a ProPublica article about how the CCP uses organized crime to intimidate Chinese citizens abroad and got banned from the entire instance for it.
It gets juicer. Just read some of the comments here. These people need to touch grass or something.
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lol
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Nope. But I’m banned from climate for not liking that little climate girl.
I have accidentally responded to posts there but have since blocked the instance. Nothing good can come from engaging with them.
lemmy.ml? I don’t part enough attention to the instances unless they’re particularly horrible. But it they’re subtly evil, like banning people with non-conformist views, they often slip under my radar.
Got banned after calling out russian propaganda for being just that. Literally happened on my first or second day on lemmy.
Sorry about that mate. I don’t think Lemmy sucks or anything. But I just hope it’s not going down reddits unfettered moderator powers and getting banned without recourse. Kinda feels like it may be headed there.
The abuse of power is instance-specific, fortunately. The whole point of all this is that there are multiple instances. Just ignore the ones that are run by tankies, those instances are theirs to wallow in if they want.
Yeah. I just hope that doesn’t mean we need to keep switching instances once one fills up with weirdos looking around because no one wants to join them in their poisoned forums any more. I’m pretty sure they will have alt accounts on multiple instances.
I don’t think Lemmy sucks or anything.
This really doesn’t have much to do with Lemmy. If you don’t like what you see from a certain instance, go to an instance that defederates from that instance. That applies regardless of what software you use to access the Fediverse, Lemmy, kbin, whatever.
Its strange. When i first came on here i felt that shit was the same as there bc of this. Now? Idk man… the big difference is the amount of sane voices on here that arent silenced but instead are prevalent. Thats why i dont like the advice of blocking the shitty instances. Young ppl are at risk of stumbling in early, and the trolls/shills need to be pushed back against.
Block these instances: lemmy.ml lemmygrad.ml hexbear.net
There is no point arguing with tankies. They are dumb and they won’t change. I just hope there will be a way to completely block those users including their comments. They are polluting the fediverse.
I don’t miss anything there other than the Firefox community.
to join lemmy.ml you need to copy and paste a paragraph from a communist text, so, no
This is blatantly not true. To sign up for lemmy.ml, you have to provide an email, name, and a couple sentences of why you’re joining. You should stop inventing false statements and spewing them on the internet. It’s not good for anyone. In fact, it makes everyone who dislikes lemmy.ml look like idiots.
Damn, I guess looking back, the .ml wasn’t about Mali lol
? Since when. I used to have an account there months ago when I migrated from reddit. I don’t think I would have missed that at the time
Yeah I had an account there too and I set it up like every other account. Found out later on that ml was Marxist Lennin so I setup shop at lemm.ee instead
.ml is the top level domain for the country of Mali. .ml domains are free, so it is just a coincidence. Also, Marxist-Leninism is not a ‘tankie’ theory, by itself. There are plenty of communists and socialists that aren’t simps for China and Russia.
I would even say that you can’t be a true communist and support either of these countries, because these countries are not communist at all. They are just authoritarian capitalistic hellholes, with sprinkles of social policies to give the illusion of pursuing a communist society.
Dessalines, lemmy dev and admin of both lemmygrad and lemmy.ml, is a Dengist. And not exactly coy about it.
And don’t even fucking start to pretend it’s “lemmygrad dot mali”.
Fuck I’m retarded.
I’ve been here for months and kind of known all these components but just never connected the dots.
I was even defending Lemmy at one point.
🤦♀️
I never knew whether that was true, I just drifted away from it. .ml just means it is on a domain designated for Mali, but they could have explicitly chosen that domain to use it for another purpose.
It is they who are extreme.
No
Not at all. There’s nothing good that has .ml at the end of it here. You’re missing nothing.
Based on what china is doing to fishing and military boats from the Philippines, I doubt they’re just after ‘transit’. They’re making a territorial claim. Not much different from Russia’s claim on Ukraine, except that its happening in international waters.
This is what OP was banned for. It’s not just the world news community, the admins police wrongthink across the entire instance.
And the Streisand effect has carried those words to people who would have never seen them.
Hope you’re reading this .ml!
I wonder what the listed offence was, because what OP stated in the comment is absolutely true. Did they conveniently forget the 9-dash line? China is absolutely laying claim to waters that have already been declared to belong to the Philippines.
OP said the offense was “yellow peril”
What a BS reason
Yeah that’s pretty bad.
I just hope there will be a way to completely block […] users including their comments.
Remember who the developers are.
Connect for Lemmy does that.
They seem to be really anti-nsfw, so that could be a driving force for improving their instance blocking (and is probably the only reason it exists in the first place).
They are anti blocking or…? I don’t understand this comment.
The devs are the tankies that run lemmy.ml
Yeah. I hope kbin will grow and have a decent mobile app, then I can finally move over.
Check out Kbin.earth and the Interstellar app! :)
When I tried the Interstellar app earlier, it crashed frequently. Just tried it again with the current version and it seems to be very stable now. Thanks for the suggestion.
Is there something unique about kbin.earth? I am using kbin.melroy.org for now, which runs on mbin.
But… Kbin can federate just as easily with those instances as Lemmy. You shouldn’t think “I’m going to move to kbin”, that wouldn’t help in any way.
You should rather move to an instance (using any backend you like, Lemmy, Kbin, doesn’t matter) that has defederated from the instances you don’t want to interact with.
yeah as soon as sublinks has an actual public instance i’m switching over
And eventually we will have Sublinks I hope?
I just hope there will be a way to completely block those users including their comments. They are polluting the fediverse.
There already is, go to an instance that defederates from them. Or try to convince your current instance to do it. Or make your own personal instance so you’re in control of what you defederate from.
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I got banned from some of these as well! First time I’ve ever been banned from anything lol. Guess it’s a badge of honor on lemmy
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Remember to always take the pills your doctor tells you to take.
I got a permanent ban on lemmygrad within days of making an account, see supporting Ukraine defend itself is obviously NATO apologia. I think the problem wasn’t even my stance but that were actually convincing, they’re not blocking you for saying “fuck tankies” or making bad arguments, they keep that stuff up to make, by extension, any criticism of their party line look stupid.
Only got temporary bans on lemmy.ml, for things such as pointing out that OP’s article itself said that Ukraine didn’t lay claim to the territories in Russia it officially recognises as “historically linguistically Ukrainian” in response to others in the thread doing the usual “Zelensky is a Nazi oppression Russian speakers” thing (never mind Zelensky being a native Russian speaker and Jew).
That’s just you finishing the tutorial.
Called it! Just checked the post.
I ran into something similar a couple days ago:
I wrote a comment critical of Chinas actions in Africa, which was silently deleted after it got traction. When I looked at the mod log, my comment was not listed. Checked back on my comment, checked the mod log from another machine. Nothing.
Just silently and covertly removed without any trace of who and why. Has me really suspicious
You mean the comment in technology@lemmy.world about “bootleg videos of Chinese foremen in in Africa” that shows in Modlog as being removed by mod for “Racist stereotyping”?
Yes, that one. I don’t mind so much the removal as the odd secretiveness I observed. Where are you seeing that correct mod log? When I tried looking at the reason the removal action was not in the log, which is what my main issue is/was. I even tried from my phone and computer to the same result
If I make an inappropriate comment (in the heat of the moment) in whatever community it’s totally fine if they remove it but I would at least like to know why.
I just pulled up the modlogs on lemmy.zip and entered your username.
So if I comment on .world, and a mod there removes the comment, I have to check my home instance mod log?
I see what you mean about it not showing in logs on lemmy.world. Given the “carnist rhetoric” one shows I’m betting on it being a bug. Lemmy has many bugs and Modlog federation is especially buggy from what I’ve seen.
That tracks. China’s (imperialist) abuse of Africa isn’t the message they want out there. They frame it as win-win collaboration
Right. More like win and give up your sovereign right and decision making autonomy on all of the world bodies.
No, but thanks for the heads up. Lemm.ee seems to be good about that, or I would’ve ruffled every feather in the book almost.
Well it’s run By Estonians, of course they have good reason to dislike Russia.
Lemm.ee is? I didn’t know that. You learn something new every day.
I wish the best for Estonia during these times. Such nice vibes from there.
