• @vin@lemmynsfw.com
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    191 year ago

    Examples of true left would be codeterminisn in Germany and banning tuition fees in Finland.

  • @theluddite@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Other people have already posted good answers so I just want to add a couple things.

    If you want a very simple, concrete example: Healthcare. It depends on how you count, but more than half the world’s countries have some sort of free or low cost public healthcare, whereas in the US, the richest country in the history of countries, that’s presented as radical left wing kooky unrealistic communist Bernie idea. This isn’t an example of a left-wing policy that we won’t adopt, but of what in much of the world is a normal public service that we can’t adopt because anti-socialism in this country is so malignant and metastasized that it can be weaponized against things that are just considered normal public services almost like roads in other countries.

    A true left wing would support not just things like healthcare, but advocate for an economic system in which workers have control over their jobs, not the bosses. That is completely absent.

    Also, this meme:

    Two panel comic. top one is labeled republicans. bottom one is democrats. they're both planes dropping bombs except democrats has an lgbt flag and blm flag

    It’s glib, but it’s not wrong. Both parties routinely support American militarism abroad. Antimilitarism in favor of internationalism has been a corner stone for the left since the left began.

    • @frostmore@lemmy.world
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      -251 year ago

      in my world, that’s called same shit different pile.

      also,while i am no right wing supporter, i constantly run into leftist who wouldn’t hesitate to brand me a phobe of their convenience ,none of the right leaning people i interacted with does this… anecdotal i know.

      • “I constantly complain about anyone left of Thatcher and have reactionary social views, the people who agree with me don’t criticise me. Curious!”

      • @Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, but no one lives in your world but you. In the real world, you’re so hilariously off the mark.

        i constantly run into leftist who wouldn’t hesitate to brand me a phobe of their convenience ,none of the right leaning people i interacted with does this… anecdotal i know.

        Maybe the leftist has a point because you actually align with the right? Crazy, I know, but I’ve seen this argument play out irl more than once with some rightoids that loved to pretend their politics weren’t right aligned.

  • Binthinkin
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    431 year ago

    Because liberals are just center of right. If you go too far left things become better for workers and not the ruling shit heads.

    • @frostmore@lemmy.world
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      -381 year ago

      what happens when you go far left??

      my last interaction with them convinced me they aren’t any different from the alt right.

      • @GONADS125@feddit.de
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        261 year ago

        Allow me to enlighten you by illustrating how both sides are absolutely not the same

        Some highlights:

        There is a stark difference in the means with which the two groups engage in acts of extremism. In a study evaluating Left-Wing and Right-Wing domestic extremism between 1994 and 2020, there was one fatality as the result of Left-Wing extremism, versus 329 fatalities resulting from Far Right extremism in that 25 year period. [5]

        The Far-Right movement is the oldest and most deadly form of domestic terrorism in the United States, and The Anti-Defamation League Center on Extremism found that the Far-Right is responsible for 98% of extremist murders in the U.S. [24] Furthermore, for nearly every year since 2011, Far-Right terrorist attacks/plots have accounted for over half of all terror attacks/plots in the United States. [21]

        In the U.S., Right-Wing extremism was responsible for two-thirds of all failed, foiled, or successful terror attacks in 2019, and was responsible for 90% of attacks in the first half of 2020 alone. [21] Since 2013, Far-Right extremism has been responsible for more terror attacks/plots than the Left-Wing, ethnonationalism, or religiously motivated attacks/plots. [21]

        References

        These are excerpts from a blog post of mine, but I have ads turned off and do not benefit in any way from it.

            • @frostmore@lemmy.world
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              -271 year ago

              I did,it compared right wing extermism to left wing extremism. one had more death than the other but extremism nonetheless…hence same shit different pile.

              or are you suggesting being a left wing extremist is the better option than say being in the middle ground…because death??

              • Cowbee [he/they]
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                11 year ago

                Extremism is not good or bad, just like being in the middle is not good or bad either. What matters is what’s correct.

                For example, between being pro-fascism and anti-fascism, anti-fascism is both extreme and correct.

                • @frostmore@lemmy.world
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                  -41 year ago

                  sure,if that’s what you think is correct.

                  i am sure when you preach that being gay is God’s intention,i am sure Christians and Muslim will agree that correct.

                  don’t forget to label me a homophobe if that’s what it is now.

              • @BluesF@lemmy.world
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                181 year ago

                One death from left wing extremism in 25 years, versus 329 from the right, 32900% more. To say that this is the “same shit” is clearly absurd. We aren’t discussing the merits of the middle ground. You seem to be suggesting that just because something is labelled as “extremist” it is automatically bad, regardless of what it actually is or what harm it causes.

                • @frostmore@lemmy.world
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                  -191 year ago

                  one extreme isn’t exactly better than the other. they are extremes and should be regarded as such.

                  left extremism does not represent good neither does it represent evil,same goes for right wing extremism.

                  what i find interesting is people seem to think left wing extremism is the ONLY way to go,ignoring the fact that left wing extremism also practice discrimination, ostracism,bigotry and racism,not that much different from right wing extremism.

      • Cowbee [he/they]
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        61 year ago

        When you go far left, you have ideologies like Socialism, Communism, and Anarchism, all ideologies that oppose unjust hierarchy and advocate for the good of all.

        The far-right is completely different from the far-left, because the far-right has ideologies like fascism and feudalism. This is an inherently violent, reactionary position found to uphold the status quo, ie the division of power, via absolute measures.

        These are not the same.

    • @Treczoks@lemmy.world
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      321 year ago

      The Democrats would be the conservative party in my country. The Republicans would be watched by law enforcement for fascistic tendencies, or already outright illegal.

    • @EnderMB@lemmy.world
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      211 year ago

      It’s really as simple as this. The left in countries like the UK and Ireland would be radical to the US.

  • @BaldManGoomba@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    What is the left to you? Does a major party that wins election advocates and brings bills for this platform on a national united scale?

  • Rhynoplaz
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    1641 year ago

    Because what the US considers left (universal health care, helping the poor, school lunches and affordable education) is considered middle of the road normal stuff in Europe and other developed countries.

    • @yarr@feddit.nl
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      61 year ago

      As a proud American wingnut, I vehemently denounce these so-called “benefits” that you claim are merely considered middle-of-the-road in other parts of the world. Let us break it down for the sake of argument.

      First off, Universal Health Care is nothing more than a government-controlled monopoly on healthcare services. This is the first step toward socialized medicine, which has proven to be detrimental to the medical industry worldwide. In the name of equality, doctors will no longer strive to excel in their fields, as their paychecks will not reflect their efforts. The result? A decline in quality of care, longer wait times, and diminishing innovation in the field. This is how the slippery slope begins!

      Next on your list is ‘helping the poor.’ While this sounds like a noble cause, it must be understood that government intervention is neither necessary nor effective when it comes to uplifting individuals out of poverty. It’s time we stop enabling dependence on handouts. Instead, we should promote personal responsibility and self-reliance—core American values, after all. Only by standing on one’s own two feet can a person truly gain an appreciation for life’s hardships, and ultimately, its rewards.

      Moving onto school lunches, let us examine our Founding Fathers’ vision for the country. They cherished individual freedom above all else. By providing free meals to students, we’re essentially stifling entrepreneurship by removing the incentive for young people to start businesses that could potentially provide lunch services to schools. Additionally, such measures only serve to deepen the divide between the haves and have-nots. Why should children who are fortunate enough to receive these free lunches continue working hard if they know they’ll always be provided for?

      Last but not least, affordable education is nothing more than a clever Trojan horse for communist brainwashing. When the cost of higher education is reduced, the barriers to entry for subversive ideologies also decrease. We cannot sit idly by while our youth are corrupted with socialist propaganda. In fact, the price tag of college tuition serves as a natural selection process that ensures only those who value their education will pursue it, consequently maintaining the quality of graduates entering the workforce.

      In conclusion, I implore you to reconsider your support for these so-called “middle of the road” concepts. These policies may sound pleasant in theory, but make no mistake; they’re merely disguised stepping stones toward a godless society where individuals cease to think or act independently. The American Dream would die a slow and painful death under this system. First, free lunches, next COMMUNISM!

      • Rhynoplaz
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        31 year ago

        I guess the downvoters either didn’t get the joke, or completely agree with what you typed and noticed the sarcasm. 🤷🏻‍♂️

        • Cethin
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          41 year ago

          I’m tempted to downvote because the “parody” is also literally what a lot of people on the right literally think. There’s zero difference between this comment written in jest and the same comment written totally honestly. That means this potentially spreads that idea, however absurd it sounds to us.

          In the end I didn’t downvote because I think if people are here they probably understand how stupid it is for it to be serious. If this were Reddit I would probably downvote because odds are some right-wing idiots would think it agrees with them and see the upvotes as confirmation of their ideas.

          • @scv@discuss.online
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            21 year ago

            This post is more reasonable and well written than plenty of stuff I have seen from actual right wingers. I worry when people cosplay too hard, sometimes it becomes real.

      • @TheDannysaur@lemmy.world
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        101 year ago

        This hurts to read.

        I know it’s satire, but this is like… 5% more satirical than actual beliefs on the topic at some points. The helping the poor section in particular.

    • TheMurphy
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      571 year ago

      Even the historical, biggest right wing party in Denmark would not remove any of the things you mentioned, except school lunches.

  • Lopen's Left Arm
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    221 year ago

    Compared to the rest of the first world countries, our farthest left candidates are relatively moderate.

  • @Jumi@lemmy.world
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    291 year ago

    If the party I vote for in Germany would be one in the US they probably would be banned for being communists or something like that while here they’re a widely accepted part of the goverment.

  • @yarr@feddit.nl
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    -21 year ago

    If “they” would provide a definition of “true left” then maybe we can discuss it. Otherwise, it’s so impossibly vague, who could possibly answer this question?

    • Veraxus
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      11 year ago

      Leftism is about being egalitarian. Everyone is equal, power is shared equally, and that equality is protected. There many very different paths and approaches to this conceptually. @stembolts@programming.dev gave a great overview of some basic specific policies below.

      Rightism is about consolidation of power. Since power and wealth are inextricably linked (two sides of the same coin, as it were), the defining feature of Rightism is hoarding of wealth and entrenchment of power.

      Looking at our two major parties, their platforms, their policies, and their behavior as organizations, it’s easy to tell that neither meets the definition of Leftist.

    • @stembolts@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      It is not difficult to infer the intent behind what they mean and answer the question, but that would require some effort.
      It is much easier to pedantically critique word choice. That requires no effort.

      I will help you. When an object X is “true X”, that usually means the same base item X, with greater magnitude, so “true X” would be a X-leaning political philosophy with a greater magnitude. So taking left-wing policies for example, it could be paid maternity and paternity leave, worker’s rights, a social safety net, yearly vacation days, and such. In this limited example, the united states has none of these policies enforced on a national level. These are policies that would be included in even center-left politics. So it could be said that the united states has no “true left” because the policies enacted most frequently represent mostly right or far-right ideology. Tax cuts for corporations, slashing of retirement funds, removal of protection for the environment, etc.

      The use of this “true left” terms in american politics is especially prescient because the liberal party, if removed from the united states and placed into any other political environment, would be a right-wing party. Basically, the liberal party in the united states isn’t left-leaning if we look at global standards. It is a center-right or right-wing neoliberalism at best. Thus folks in the united states often say that there is no “true-left” party.

      Hope this helps.

    • Cowbee [he/they]
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      61 year ago

      What leftist party is there in the US that is centered around some form of Socialism that controls any meaningful amount of the State?

      • @OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee
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        -31 year ago

        That’s only a meaningful question if the only “true Left” is a Leftist political party that is centered around some form of Socialism that controls a meaningful amount of a State.

        • Cowbee [he/they]
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          21 year ago

          Not necessarily. A Syndicalist or otherwise Anarchist-derivative party doesn’t exist either, and no similar coalition exists on the ground with widespread impact on the Capitalist status-quo, yet.

          I really hope you’re not trying to insinuate that the DNC are somehow left wing.

  • @stoy@lemmy.zip
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    1 year ago

    This image from 2020 sums it up decently…

    https://imgur.com/a/WqMvpo0

    Also: you guys messed up the colors for the parties, red is for left leaning parties, blue is for right leaning. But I guess that is just the US being the US, like temperature, weight and distance units.