Mine is they shouldn’t have made the sequel series without George as a consultant.
I love the idea Kylo Ren. Unhinged man child who worships Vader for all the wrong reasons. His soldiers are afraid of him and work around him and pity him. I love having such a broken villain.
I loved when Rey’s parents were nobodies.
I loved that Luke was a scared and broken. Should have felt crippling pity for that guard he force choked in a Jabba’s palace. Still. I loved it.
And while I’m at it. Frozen. I wanted so desperately for Hans to be entirely sympathetic and just not in love will Anna. Movie is mostly the same until Anna gets back and needs the kiss to fix her and he tries and… Nothing. Then. I dunno. Finish the movie some other way.
Bro did a 360 degree Ollie backflip with the Frozen commentary LMAO 🤣
I like the prequels, probably because I grew up with them
I didn’t mind Episode 7. It wasn’t very original, but it was still entertaining imo. Episode 8 had a good message behind it, and the cinematography was great, but that’s about it. Episode 9 had Babu Frik and that’s about it.
As for the newer series, I like pretty much all of them, though Obi-Wan and BoBF left something to be desired.
I really enjoyed The Acolyte in spite of its imperfections. I think a second season could have totally given writers a chance to work out some kinks in the story. I also think it would have benefitted greatly from being 10 or more episodes instead of eight.
You asked for hot takes, I’ve had some unpleasant things said to me for some of these.
Edit: forgot about spinoffs: Rogue One was phenomenal, Solo I didn’t like at first but it’s grown on me a little bit. Still pissed they never went anywhere on screen with the Maul cameo.
These are all pretty common opinions.
A New Hope would have only been moderately successful at best without the combination of David Prowse doing the physical work and James Earl Jones voicing Vader. Possibly a flop.
Yes, the rest of the cast was solid and it would have still been a good B movie without them, but the voice and physical presence of Vader set the tone of what the protagonists were fighting against. Vader isn’t the best character either! In fact he is a one note villain in A New Hope.
The combination of both actors was the secret sauce that set the foundation for the entire series. Heck, Vader overshadowed Palpatine in their scenes together for me, even with Ian McDiarmid’s excellent performance.
You forgot the soundtrack by John Williams having absolutely put the movie over the top.
That isn’t a hot take though.
Yeah I realized that after I posted and decided to leave it up for posterity. 😬
Rogue One has the best score. It drives the movie like a madman. It’s amazing that it’s only one NOT done by John Williams. But I think they took what he created and built a masterpiece.
Rogue One and Andor are the only watchable things that have come out in the last few years.
I wonder why r2d2 doesn’t simply close the stargates with his avatar powers (earth, wind, fire). 🤔
No air?!
Because that would violate the prime directive.
My hot take, is that star wars pieces of media are only considered “good” if the viewer was too young to perceive the politics in the work when they first saw it. There are exceptions like rogue one/andor, but I think it mostly holds.
A new hope was only good to the extent that a mediocre remake of a Kurosawa film is still good. Empire was slightly downhill from that (sad ending =/= good movie). Everything after that struggles to remain watchable.
They were simply following the classic trilogy arc:
-
Plucky heroes score on the big baddies against overwhelming odds.
-
Baddies hand our heroes their ass on a platter. Hope is all but gone.
-
Heroes come back bigger and tougher, win the whole game by the end.
-
To tell any other story in the Star Wars universe, you must first retcon the Original Trilogy.
See, the Original Trilogy established that the “dark side” was a temptation for every Jedi. Like cocaine or meth for modern humans: addictive poison that gives a temporary rush of power.
That’s great for the whole spiritual, mystic, two-wolves-within-you conflict Luke went through. His victory was overcoming his shortcomings in the form of fear and anger.
But it’s actually terrible for any story made afterwards.
On the one hand, you can’t now make a story where, “maybe the Jedi were excessively stoic.” without also inadvertently making the argument that Luke was maybe… wrong?.. to conquer his emotions? It undermines Luke’s conflict.
On the other hand, you also can’t make the Dark Side totally evil without flattening Vader’s character. When Luke loses himself to fear in Episode 5 and to anger in Episode 6, he proves that the Dark Side doesn’t sink its teeth into you and control you permanently after a single moment of weakness. Even after losing yourself to the Dark Side, you can still observe how it is hurting your loved ones and then choose to pull yourself out of it, conquering your fear and anger in order to protect them. Exactly as Luke does for Vader, and exactly as Vader does immediately after for Luke.
Which means Anakin was just… one-dimensional up until that point. Weak. Too simple to be a protagonist. He wakes up to find he’s killed Padme, and yet still doesn’t turn his life around and learn to fight the temptation of the Dark Side? He hunts down and kills Jedi who had nothing to do with his fall, and yet never looks into their eyes to realize he’s fallen?
No matter how you look at it, it just… doesn’t work.
That’s why the prequels retconned the Jedi into something morally ambiguous. And why the sequels retconned them into a past that needed killing. It’s why the Clone Wars animated series turned the Jedi into a bureaucratically anti-emotion order. And why a lot of video games added lore where the Jedi actually committed genocide against the Sith. It’s also why pretty much none of these other media talk about the Dark Side in the same tone as the OT.
The second the OT ended, the Dark Side could no be longer a “temptation”. It had to became a faction. An unjustly vilified piece of humanity. An ethnic group.
Because you can’t have a “dark side” and have complicated, nuanced characters and extensive world-building: either A) the world will fall apart, B) the characters will be woefully inconsistent, or C) all of the above.
So every, single time you want to make new Star Wars media, you have to retcon the “Dark Side” essentially out of existence.
Star Wars has been constantly retconning itself, from the beginning.
The first film was not really produced as “Episode IV”, it was “Star Wars”, a standalone film. It was a movie about a farmer orphan who goes on a swashbuckling space adventure with laser swords and space wizards. The good guys are unambiguously good, the bad guys are just bad guys. Everything is pretty much just as it seems, no secretly alive people, no secretly related people. Lucas may have had nebulous plans/hopes for follow ons, but they weren’t baked and the overall concept is standalone.
Then ESB came along and retconned the Skywalker family, and produced cliffhangers knowing there’d be a third film. However, I’m pretty certain that “there is another Skywalker” didn’t specifically have Leia in mind at the time, mainly because of how it’s handled in the follow up.
Then ROTJ came along, and that little tease about ‘there is another Skywalker?’ just a kind of casual “oh yeah, that’s Leia, and she’s your sister, and we are going to do absolutely nothing serious with that, just consider the matter closed even though they were clearly setting up for… something with that”.
A lot of things in the franchise have this feel. Like “Rei’s provenance is mysterious and significant” swinging in the next film to “the parents are nobody, parents don’t matter” and then swinging again in the last of that set of three to “just kidding, her provenance is very significant”.
The main issue with the Force is that no one ever defined how it and the Dark Side work.
Not that midichlorian bullshit, but an explanation of why the Dark Side is powerful.
There are sort of fan theories as to how it works, but as you pointed out, those are undercut by the lack of consistency.
The original trilogy sort of hints at a workable mechanism.
First is the Light Side. You are borrowing power from the universe to do things. It’s not fast, but it is powerful.
Then the Dark Side, you are not asking. You’re demanding. You’re pulling more power faster than the universe can support. This is why hatred and fear lead to the Dark, because if your emotions are heightened you’re less likely to ask.
The Dark Side should also be corrosive to your own body.
Vader’s line that he was more machine than man. It should not have been a single injury on a lava planet, but a slow decay as he literally pulled the life out of his own body to fuel his power.
Palpatine should have been slowly decaying. Not one fight with reflected lightning.
But that’s the prequel problem. People can’t leave shit alone and have to explain every little detail, even if years are meant to go by between the prequel and the original.
My hot take is based on this idea.
The franchise should say to hell with canon and redo the prequels.
Anakin’s fall into the dark side should have mirrored Luke’s journey. Instead of a maudlin love story causing his fall, he is slowly corrupted by greed and power. Do it well, and it becomes an allegory for modern class struggle and the greed of the few as they gain power. The clone wars are between ordinary people about the legality of cloning as a technology. The Jedi are not generals and there are like 20, not 1,000s. Part way through Anakin’s training, Obi-Wan and him leave to enlist as pilots - Obi-Wan offering to continue his teaching in the space Navy against the Jedi’s wishes. Every time Anakin wins a battle, he’s ashamed of how good it feels to kill. Every time Anakin gets promoted on the space Navy for winning, he is ashamed of the feel of power. Obi-Wan isn’t blind to Anakin’s slide to darkness, but has too much pride himself to ask for help - failing as a teacher because he can’t tattle on his friend.
Ep 2 should be about Anakin coming to grips with his non-jedi like desires and accepting his fate as something not-jedi. Escaping from the Jedi order and running away ashamed and afraid like a fugitive. The Jedi hunting him down across the galaxy. A whole movie about this acceptance, instead of a 1 minute scene in Palp’s office. It would be an allegory for the tyranny of the majority, and accepting ones flaws. Ep 2 ends with Anakin finding Sideous stuck in hiding and starting his dark training (a la Yoda in Ep5)
Ep 3 opens to a reluctant Anakin and Palps nearly killing each other while doing dark side training (embracing death and power). They are interrupted by a Jedi on a mission to kill Anakin. The Jedi is killed off by Anakin at great physical cost to Anakin (starting his Darth Vader injuries). Anakin gets mad that the Jedi won’t leave him alone and finally commits to being a sith. This starts Anakin’s long quest to hunt down each Jedi individually. Each battle with the Jedi injures him further, requiring cybernetic replacements from each painful injury. The hunt consumes him and he is finally Darth Vader.
I’ve had this bouncing in my head for 25 years.
My idea for the prequels is this.
Expand the clone wars into an actual thing. Not that they were fighting with Clone armies. That’s sort of stupid.
No, the clones were of actual people, and the Jedi were the main way to tell if someone was a clone or not. I’m talking full on pod people situation here.
So, Episode 1 can be the initial discovery of the clones, and Jedi starting to hunt them. Introduce Obiwan who is a newly minted Jedi master. He finds Anakin who is a slave, but not a child. A young adult.
Obiwan then starts training Anakin.
Episode 2 would find that Anakin had been cloned. Obiwan or Padame or someone convinces people to accept the clone, and Obiwan ends up training them both. The original and the clone. Maybe the surviving clones are somewhat accepted into society, after the factory and controllers are destroyed.
Episode 3 is Anakin’s fall. He grows resentful that of his clone. The Jedi masters sense this and pass him over for some honor or advancement and Anakin starts to think that it’s because he was a slave which fuels the resentment. Padame and the clone grow close, which makes Anakin even more resentful.
At the height of the movie, the surviving clones are ordered to kill anyone near them in a mass suicide attack. Anakin’s clone, who has connected with the Force, does not kill.
Anakin murders his clone, thinking that Padame is dead, and then goes on to kill the jedi, thinking they’re to blame. Obiwan finds Anakin’s lightsaber, (he and the clone switched mid fight) and assumes the clone was activated and that Anakin is dead.
And then stuff wraps up so that Luke is born and placed on Tatoine.
I like it. You got the birth of Luke and Leia in a way I didn’t. I think in my head retcon, Padme doesn’t exist and Anakin sleeps around while killing and conquering (how he doesn’t know about Luke/Leia). That’s not great.
Wanna combine them and pitch Star Wars What If? to Disney?
There’s a massive amount of content created between the OT and the prequels. Most of it was pretty consistent.
They should leave a bit more of the technical stuff up to the imagination.
Take ESB. I have no idea how the AT-AT walkers got to Hoth. It makes the reveal of the giant machines more intense. I have no idea how hyperspace works
I don’t need the tech behind kyber crystals I like laser swords. I don’t need medichlorians, I like mystical space monks.
I think star wars learned the wrong lessons of a decade of hyper realistic film making.
Selling to Disnep was a huge mistake. Putting all the fabulous work of the expanded universe in the back for “creative freedom” and labeling it “fan fiction” basically killed Star Wars for me. Why make movies about Yuuzhan Vong, a novel and incredibly fascinating and creatively written species as the new menace, not detectable by the force, if you can just recycle the old movies?
They should have it directed by Guillermo del Toro.
Should have had them directed by Quentin Tarantino.
I want to explore the universe that has been created; I am so sick of space wizards and good vs evil
Well… Skeleton Crew apparently does that so I’ve heard
Will check out, thanks fellow Lemmy friend
It’s boring and it sucks
I agree it’s now boring and sucks.
That’s not a hot take. Millions will agree with you. Especially Star Wars fans.
The only good thing that came out of the prequels was the pod racing game on the Nintendo 64.
Now THIS is podracing!
The Star Wars universe is not interesting enough for all the TV show and movies being made. George Lucas is not Tolkien and the world building was fine enough for the original trilogy, but it’s simply too boring for more content. Tolkiens work gets more interesting as you learn more about the details. Star Wars is the opposite. The more information you get the less interesting it is.
Also the Jedis are just cops/soldiers. They are not inherently good.
That’s more or less my take too. The world of the Star Wars universe feels huge and expansive, but in reality by the end of the original trilogy they had basically told all the interesting stories that were to be had about it. And even then, they were starting to run out of material for Return of the Jedi. They tried with the prequels, but as you say it mostly fell flat and ended up boring. The sequels started off more or less rehashing the original trilogy so they were at least entertaining, but that wasn’t enough for three movies and it turned into an absolute mess by the end.
I would say the 60 year period that all the movies occupy are not interesting enough for more content. Similarly to LOTR there are plenty of other time periods in which good content could be made but that makes it harder for Disney to cash in on familiar characters so they don’t pursue those options.
