You all need to just start making English an official language across the EU. Yeah I know that’s very American imperialist of me to say, but most of you speak it already anyway and it would make travel and communication so much easier. It feels like you all are insisting on speaking different languages just to pretend you have unique cultures when let’s be real, once you welcome McDonalds that ship has sailed.
Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I’ve heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
Just ask a Mexican person what it’s like to travel to Spain
Ask a Spanish or Portuguese person what it’s like to travel to France or Belgium. Italians used to face racism in other European countries a few generations ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Dogs_or_Italians_Allowed
I’ve had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there’s something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more “it is the way it is” attitude. I’ve heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less “hate for hate’s sake” but instead “it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct”. Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they’re racist.
blacks
While we’re on the topic, I think “black people” is the preferred term (in general it’s adjectives over nouns, like “gay people” vs “gays”)
I’ve heard people of all types use the word ‘blacks’ I think it’s a regional thing.
It’s more likely a field thing. People who work in fields highly dedicated to equity (esp. those working in healthcare) are especially concerned with their language and so create style guides that people outside those fields have gleaned from.
Example:
Hey fair enough. I use whites so I tend to use the same kind of term in the other direction, too. I don’t mean anything insulting by it
Making sure I’m reading this right…I know a guy who claims he isn’t sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren’t as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn’t sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you’re saying?
Not a bad way of comparing it tbh
Did you type ‘females’ instead of ‘women’ for the sake of the argument or did you get caught up in it as well?
Guess I got caught in it. Just looked it up and didn’t realize until now that female wasn’t an acceptable word to use. TIL. Thanks!
The easy way to understand and remember is that “female” is an adjective the vast majority of the time, and it’s usually misogynists and incels using it as a noun.
I think mysoginists just have a lot of spotlight on them, or are vocal. I hadn’t been aware of “female” being used as a slur before it was pointed out here on Lemmy. I think “female” as a noun is still used neutrally far more often than as a slur.
As an adult female human, I have never been called a “female” in a positive or neutral tone. The key point is that you basically never hear people calling men “males” anywhere outside of scientific discussion.
I’ve heard Europeans call Turks ‘filthy’ and ‘roaches’ and Africans ‘monkeys’. And don’t get me started on the things said about the Romani.
I don’t think there’s a difference in how tribalistic or vicious it is.
Weird. I haven’t.
Wow, you’ve really succinctly put it best! Being a European myself, this is how I constantly feel when I hear racist shit in my daily life (mainly from family).
It’s like, people here just can’t even fathom that what they’re saying is racist, that they’re racist, because to them what they’re saying is just a simple fact of life that everybody accepts. They don’t show open animosity towards minorities or throw racial slurs like you’d see more in America (though there is definitely some of that here too don’t get me wrong), but it’s a very casual, low-key form of racism where folks comment on X group of people all being one way and no one batting an eye for example.
And if you so much as suggest they’re racist, or the country they’re in has or had issues with racism and other issues of oppression, a lot will legit fight you tooth and nail over it because they can’t handle the notion of it.
It’s really freaking weird and took me a lot of time to be conscious of it myself, since I grew up surrounded by this sort of attitude.
And it’s not just right-leaning people doing this. Some minorities like the Romani are openly discriminated by just about everyone across the political spectrum, the degree just varies. And then based on the country you’ll typically see a lot of Xenophobia towards the bigger migrant groups.
Definitely agree on the “Europe is just racist in a different way.” Outside of the obvious ones (like Middle East & Africa), I’d also add racism/xenophobia against “Eastern” Europe (like Poland), which might surprise Americans because they’re still white.
And even then the European countries that feel they’re ahead of the rest tackling racism it’s usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn’t have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
Very true
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
EU collaboration and integration is a joke. Politically, the EU is divided and bizarrely complex. There are movements to improve this but they are not as popular as the sloganistic alt right that essentially just want to give up and go back to separate countries
I spent three weeks in Belgium twenty years ago studying the EU’s structure, with a lot of time spent on the “Constitution” treaty that failed in 2005. The professors were all generally in favor of it, so maybe they overstated its benefits and definitely overstated its chances, but it sure seems like it would have helped.
Also, the pea soup at the university canteen was surprisingly good.
Yeah, we Europeans have to figure out how to work together better, because that’s the only chance we have of being independent from countries like Russia, China (or the US).
The Euro is just financial imperialism, whereby powerful Eurozone countries get to control the economies of weaker members.
And yet those weaker countries (a) want to get into the EU and (b) don’t want to leave it. Absolutely nobody is forced to be controlled by France and Germany.
The Euro also brought some positive benefits for its citizens, no longer having to pay bank charges all the time for conversions between francs, lira, marks and so on. Which arguable was the original point, rather than some kind of imperialism.
US doller?
Idolizing the past (and long gone) ‘grandeur’ of some European countries is not the best way to prepare for the future.
edit: as a disclaimer, I’m European from one of those once important countries.
Romanticizing “past greatness” seems to always involve some very shit politics. It’s more obvious in these old empires, but it exists in more subtle forms elsewhere, too.
I was specifically talking about euros, but I guess a certain US president gets a honourable mention for his campaign slogan
Knackered, as t’were?
Such an underrated comment
It would be wise of them to stop relying on everyone else.
Most Europeans still have a casual sense of arrogance and superiority over the rest of the world. It’s not very heavy, but it’s there, even among some of the best people I know
It’s not just the US that has bland restaurants and/or is afraid of spice.
I’ve been to restaurants in the Czech Republic, Germany, Poland, Austria, and Bulgaria.
I’m sure there are places that spice things up more and some of the restaurants were really good, but some were also some of the most bland food I’ve had at a restaurant.
It’s the same thing in the US; there are places that won’t put any spice on and there are places that will leave you crying the food is so hot and everything in-between.
Also every “Mexican” food dish I’ve had in Europe has just been bad. Y’all are doing it wrong.
deleted by creator
Butter IS a spice and it is delicious. 😉
deleted by creator
This sounds delicious. Can you send the recipe? 😉
deleted by creator
And on the other hand I don’t get the obsession with putting so much spice into your dish that you can’t taste the ingredients. “Seasoned” does not automatically mean “so much chilli pepper that it makes you sweat”.
Worst offender in my experience: the Dutch. I actually think their way of “seasoning” is to actively remove any natural flavour from the ingredients. They have the best Indonesian food outside South-East Asia though. Also, the Nordic Countries do a lot of things right, food is not one of them.
Also every “Mexican” food dish I’ve had in Europe has just been bad. Y’all are doing it wrong.
Yes, I read that a lot from Americans. I don’t think Europeans care much for Mexican food because there’s mostly no cultural connection to Mexico and no Mexican immigrants (Spain might be an exception). The rare Mexican restaurants you’ll find in Europe are there for the American soldiers stationed here. Basically, when in Europe, go for Arab, Asian, or African food if you don’t like the local food.
Yeah, the number of mexicans or mexican restaurants in Europe is very low, so each one doesn’t have much competition to incentivise improving.
I had some pretty terrible Thai in Poland, so it’s definitely not uniquely Mexican food 🙂 That’s just one that I’ve had a few more encounters with that was more consistently bad.
Fair point about the cultural influence; it’s probably less cultural influence than number of immigrants (and the US definitely has a lot of immigrants from asia and Mexico). I live in Ohio, so I’m fairly far from the border, but the Mexican food still ranges from “pretty good” to “fantastic.”
Meanwhile finding like good French, German, or Belgian cooking, even in areas with historic immigration from those areas in decades or centuries past is quite difficult.
Even more traditional “early European American immigrant” food (like chicken and noodles, mashed potatoes, corn on the cob, mush, turkey, roast beef sandwiches, etc) can feel endangered outside of Amish country, family kitchens, and large chain restaurants that do it badly.
Also every “Mexican” food dish I’ve had in Europe has just been bad. Y’all are doing it wrong.
Where in Europe? In Spain there is a large Mexican community, I hope they make it somehow right.
Care to share some of the dishes you tried?
Generally the cuisine in those countries isn’t spicy, but does not shy away from herbs and pickled anything. However we’ve been plagued by overpriced, tourist trap bad restaurants here, and Covid just made it worse.
I do echo that Mexican restaurants in Europe that I’ve been to are bad or meh at best. I’ve never been to Mexico and I hope the restaurants are owned by exiles who fled the country hunted by pitchfork wielding mobs, infuriated at how bad the cooks were :D
removed by mod
deleted by creator
It’s not just the US that has bland restaurants and/or is afraid of spice.
First time I hear this stereotype lol, I’ve only ever heard it about European countries (basically all of them that don’t border the Mediterranean)
Probably varies depending on where you live. I don’t even live in a big American city, but we do have access to a wide variety of restaurants including very spicy ones (they have non-spicy options of course, but there’s plenty of places that serve spicy dishes from all over the globe.
Greece. Food is usually good, but spice is a totally foreign concept.
And Mexican food in Greece is hilariously bad. Like they can’t even Google a picture of nachos?
Spicy food does not mean good food or more interesting food, eastern European food is almost never spicy but it’s almost always really good and hardly bland as most westerners would cower in fear at the sight of some marinated fish or some such.
I used to live in Japan, and let me tell you, a lot of typical Japanese cooking is unexpectedly quite lightly seasoned. I don’t mean all food, but especially common things like rice and fish dishes.
It lets you taste the food itself more than the seasoning. If you start with good ingredients, you don’t need to dress it up as much.
You should check out Korea or China for much better food, though. Japanese food isn’t bad but it is terribly boring. Even most of the interesting Japanese dishes have Chinese origins.
Nah, Japanese food is definitely better to my taste. Korea has kimchi but idk what else is even notable. Chinese food is trash.
Bulgogi, Kimbap, Tteokbokki, Jjajangmyeon and so many more good Korean dishes.
If your opinion of Chinese food is based on takeout, I can promise you haven’t had real Chinese food.
Yeah the western dichotomy of “bland” and “spicy” is only an accurate representation of their own view of the world and has little to do with the truth.
Many of your economies strive cause they stolen loads of values from us.
How would people who live outside of Europe know what Europeans are not ready to hear? As someone who lives in the U.S. I know only a couple of people IRL who live in Europe.
The thing my European friend was not ready to hear was that all his complaining about the social programs in his home country and the high taxes and so on comes across as entitled and spoiled. Because he’s never lived without the benefits of a state that will provide healthcare and so on, he is free to complain about his privileges and glorify the U.S. as a place where individual citizens fill in the responsibilities that the government should fulfill. He sees this as an unmitigated good, because he thinks it means more civic engagement.
What he doesn’t understand is that this results in most people falling through the cracks, and until he falls through one of those cracks himself it won’t be real to him how bad it is to not be able to afford losing wages because you are sick or injured, or what it’s like when you can’t afford to see a doctor when you break a bone or get so sick you can’t leave your house.
That said, I’m not sure every European needs to hear this, or that they’re not ready to hear it - just this one person seemed to be a little delusional and to have idealized the U.S. as some kind of right-wing libertarian utopia.
How would people who live outside of Europe know what Europeans are not ready to hear?
-Goes on to do exactly that
Bröther
Just ignore he was talking about one specific european he knows, that was making out the states to be superior
You take your lööps for granted, Eurøpeans. Your Sïster grows weary.
A Møøse once bit my sister…
does she prowl the forests fighting bandits with her newfound møøse powers?
deleted by creator
Opinions differ from person to person, some people here really are a bit disconnected from reality
of course, I assume most Europeans are not like my friend :-)
Too many people smoke in Europe and it’s too widely accepted.
You guys should start bulking up your militaries. At best, the US will completely abandon you, and I really don’t want to think about worst-case scenario as I live in the US.
It’s called: “soccer” !!
Europeans: call a game where you kick ball with foot “football”
Americans: call a game where you throw ball with hands “football”
One of these makes more sense to me… :p
Europeans came up with the word “soccer” as a shortened form of “Association football” to distinguish it from the numerous other forms of football being played (rugby etc).
So, it’s your fault anyway.
And we’ve since corrected our mistake.
It was the Brits. Europe refers to a collection of countries.
the uk is also a “collection of countries”.
Yes, and as far as I’m aware it’s the collection of countries that created the term Association Football. Could be wrong though.
Brits are Europeans, so the statement wasnt incorrect
“Europeans” is too vague. Why would you refer to Europe like it’s one country?
to get engagement
deleted by creator
NGL I kinda forgot about rugby, fair point
It was not Europeans. It was the British. And it was the upper class British. Specifically at the Oxford University. The people in both continental Europe and Britain always called it football.
“Soccer” is technically a slur for lower class football.
Even the British call it football now, but the soccer slur still lives on in America and other colonies.
“Soccer” is technically a slur for lower class football.
America: I’m not seeing the issue here.
:P
It was not Europeans. It was the British.
My brother you need to look at a map once in a while or resit your geography exams 🤣😂.
“It wasn’t Europeans, it was this group of people from Europe.”
A small group of people from of a single country does not represent the entire population of the continent.
The sentence "Americans say ‘aloha’ instead of ‘hello’* is just as right or wrong.
Good example
OK, so this may shock some, but my posh English school called football ‘soccer’. Football was what most people would call rugby. Cricket was… Cricket.
deleted by creator
Probably. I hated all of it and still do, so I’ve no idea what they said in the pub.
Most nations of the world refer to the beautiful game as football, or a derivative thereof. Then there’s that one nation…
Ah yes, Japan.
😄 Thank you. Obviously not what I was referring to, but still a point.
In Japan the most common term is sakkā, that came into use from US influence after the war. Both futtobōru and football is in use, though.
Although the official English name of the Japan Football Association uses the term “football”, the term sakkā (サッカー), derived from “soccer”, is much more commonly used than futtobōru (フットボール). The JFA’s Japanese name is Nippon Sakkā Kyōkai.
Before World War II the term in general use was shūkyū (蹴球, kick-ball), a Sino-Japanese term. With previously exclusive Japanese terms replaced by American influence after the war, sakkā became more commonplace. In recent years, many professional teams have named themselves F.C.s (football clubs), with examples being FC Tokyo and Kyoto Sanga FC.
Then there’s that one nation…
Sure, but we forgive Italy just because they love the game so much, they can have their own strange name for it if they want.
Italy has to be Italy :) And Juventus Football Club plays calcio, so while they do have their own awesome word they seem to be on team football ;)
Ah yes, Australia
that message may come from us or canada, the rest of the world would side with europe
Hey, don’t leave Australia and New Zealand out of club soccer, too. Soccer happens to be the preferred term in most anglophone countries.
hand egg! :p
soccer is an abbreviation of associated football. which apparently had rather upper class implications in the UK and as such the word never caught on with the hoi poloi
i eat with bare hands
Apparently soccer is offensive even though I grew up in AYSO. i got in the habit of calling them association football and gridiron football, respectively.
I thought the corruption of the leagues and the fanatcism of the US is bad and scary. Then I learned about FIFA. i had no idea.
