Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I’ve heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
Definitely agree on the “Europe is just racist in a different way.” Outside of the obvious ones (like Middle East & Africa), I’d also add racism/xenophobia against “Eastern” Europe (like Poland), which might surprise Americans because they’re still white.
Just ask a Mexican person what it’s like to travel to Spain
Ask a Spanish or Portuguese person what it’s like to travel to France or Belgium. Italians used to face racism in other European countries a few generations ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Dogs_or_Italians_Allowed
I’ve had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there’s something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more “it is the way it is” attitude. I’ve heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less “hate for hate’s sake” but instead “it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct”. Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they’re racist.
blacks
While we’re on the topic, I think “black people” is the preferred term (in general it’s adjectives over nouns, like “gay people” vs “gays”)
I’ve heard people of all types use the word ‘blacks’ I think it’s a regional thing.
It’s more likely a field thing. People who work in fields highly dedicated to equity (esp. those working in healthcare) are especially concerned with their language and so create style guides that people outside those fields have gleaned from.
Example:
Hey fair enough. I use whites so I tend to use the same kind of term in the other direction, too. I don’t mean anything insulting by it
I’ve heard Europeans call Turks ‘filthy’ and ‘roaches’ and Africans ‘monkeys’. And don’t get me started on the things said about the Romani.
I don’t think there’s a difference in how tribalistic or vicious it is.
Weird. I haven’t.
Wow, you’ve really succinctly put it best! Being a European myself, this is how I constantly feel when I hear racist shit in my daily life (mainly from family).
It’s like, people here just can’t even fathom that what they’re saying is racist, that they’re racist, because to them what they’re saying is just a simple fact of life that everybody accepts. They don’t show open animosity towards minorities or throw racial slurs like you’d see more in America (though there is definitely some of that here too don’t get me wrong), but it’s a very casual, low-key form of racism where folks comment on X group of people all being one way and no one batting an eye for example.
And if you so much as suggest they’re racist, or the country they’re in has or had issues with racism and other issues of oppression, a lot will legit fight you tooth and nail over it because they can’t handle the notion of it.
It’s really freaking weird and took me a lot of time to be conscious of it myself, since I grew up surrounded by this sort of attitude.
And it’s not just right-leaning people doing this. Some minorities like the Romani are openly discriminated by just about everyone across the political spectrum, the degree just varies. And then based on the country you’ll typically see a lot of Xenophobia towards the bigger migrant groups.
Making sure I’m reading this right…I know a guy who claims he isn’t sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren’t as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn’t sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you’re saying?
Did you type ‘females’ instead of ‘women’ for the sake of the argument or did you get caught up in it as well?
Guess I got caught in it. Just looked it up and didn’t realize until now that female wasn’t an acceptable word to use. TIL. Thanks!
The easy way to understand and remember is that “female” is an adjective the vast majority of the time, and it’s usually misogynists and incels using it as a noun.
I think mysoginists just have a lot of spotlight on them, or are vocal. I hadn’t been aware of “female” being used as a slur before it was pointed out here on Lemmy. I think “female” as a noun is still used neutrally far more often than as a slur.
As an adult female human, I have never been called a “female” in a positive or neutral tone. The key point is that you basically never hear people calling men “males” anywhere outside of scientific discussion.
Not a bad way of comparing it tbh
And even then the European countries that feel they’re ahead of the rest tackling racism it’s usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn’t have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
Very true
Not Eurpoe specifically but I shared a rather basic comment on YouTube joking about Great Britain causing famines in India but its okay because they brought trains and the result is a mile long thread of pissed off UK suckers telling me I’m wrong, that there was no fammine, the Wikipedia article and its 300 sources are fake, and that the British empire totally went around modernizing civilization for the benefit of humanity. (Was a post about Irish complaining about a very crappy Irish History book made by a British author)
So I guess for any of those people, no GB was just a colonist empire racing to exploit the hell out of resources faster than France, Spain, and Portugal. The technology they brought was used almost exclusively in their conquest operations (Trains used to transport goods and resources) and they actively supported and supplied opposition groups to destabilize and overthrow governments similar to what the USA does today.
I mean seriously, they held immense power over China via opium and are responsible for practically every shill state in the middle east because they provided weapons to overthrow the Ottaman empire.
The iconic pan arab flag is actually a British designed flag given to all the opposition groups they funded to break up Ottaman power.
They fell apart after exhausting their power in WWII and the USA came in to save them so now they gleefully cheer about how they carried in WWII with intelligence services as if Germany couldn’t have easily invaded the entire nation overnight had Hitler not been an incompetent moron.
Thankfully, after exploiting half the world, they totally didn’t spend the last of their power screwing over every former colony into some long term problem that they could exploit without the need for military power.
Not everyone wants to live in some EU places because those areas are too densely packed. Vienna has been voted the most livable city many years in a row, but most residential areas I saw were filled with apartments, condos or townhomes.
The state of Western Australia is bigger than all of Europe.
I thought America was racist until I saw a member of UK Parliament tweeting about a boat of migrants sinking with “Good riddance”.
The question should read
“Americans; give us your baseless opinions of a continent you don’t understand, and then get a rage-on in the comments when you are laughed at”
Based on the comments it looks like Europeans weren’t ready to hear some of these things. 😉 Let me pile on…
Innovation in Europe is stiffled due to a risk-averse culture, complex regulatory environments, fragmented markets across different countries, limited access to venture capital, and a tendency for established companies to be less receptive to new ideas from startups, making it harder for innovative companies to scale up (compared to the US).
Start-ups in the US benefit from an immediate market of 400 million people. The EU should be able to enjoy a similar benefit but you are right about the red tape. Obviously Brexit in the UK was a total anathema to that as well.
From what J can see innovation is happening just fine
Tell me one big innovation of the last 30 years where Europe is leading
na-euv
Doesn’t really count if you have to google it first to know what it is, that’s not what will save the European economy in the future. In the mean time other regions of the world dominate battery technology, battery-electric vehicles, handheld devices, social media, semiconductor technology, quantum computing, and basically the whole internet
You keep using your phone, and ignoring what tech allows all modern computers to exist. Tech isn’t a major industry, right?
And Europe is not dominating that industry
Just the foundation it’s build upon
Doesn’t really count if you have to google it first to know what it is
Are you saying that semiconductors and chipset manufacturing is not a critical domain today?
battery technology
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umicore
social media
Ironic as you are using a Lemmy instance based in Austria
A few other companies in the fields you mentioned:
- Spotify
- SAP
- Volkswagen
- BMW
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/20-most-valuable-european-tech-221145055.html
Yes, and as we all know, feddit.org absolutely dominates the social media market.
I specifically wrote that in these areas other regions of the world are dominating. I’m well aware that there are some players from the EU in these areas. That’s not the point. Europe is not leading in any major development of the last 30 years while in other areas they lose market share to the competition like automotive or space (with the notable exception of aviation).
Let’s look at tech companies. Look at that list and tell me with a straight face that Europe is playing a dominant role:
https://companiesmarketcap.com/tech/largest-tech-companies-by-market-cap/
Out of the 100 biggest companies, there are only 10 from the whole continent.
ASML is such an undisputed leader in today’s chip ecosystem that it’s hard to believe the company’s market dominance really only dates back to 2017, when its EUV machine, after 17 years of development, upended the conventional process for making chips.
It’s also a testament to ASML’s dominance that it is for the most part no longer allowed to sell its most advanced systems to customers in China. Though ASML still does business in China, in 2019, following pressure from the Trump administration, the Dutch government began imposing restrictions on ASML’s exports of EUV machines to China. Those rules were tightened further just last year and now also impose limits on some of the company’s deep-ultraviolet (DUV) machines, which are used to make less highly advanced chips than EUV systems.
Yet although today everyone is banking on ASML to keep pushing the industry forward, there is speculation that a competitor could emerge from China. Van den Brink was dismissive of this possibility, citing the gap in even last-generation lithography.
“SMEE are making DUV machines, or at least claim they can,” he told MIT Technology Review, referring to a company that makes the predecessor to EUV lithography technology, and pointed out that ASML still has the dominant market share. The political pressures could mean more progress for China. But getting to the level of complexity involved in ASML’s suite of machines, with low, high, and hyper NA is another matter, he says: “I feel quite comfortable that this will be a long time before they can copy that.”
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/04/01/1090393/how-asml-took-over-the-chipmaking-chessboard/
Doesn’t really count if you have to google it first to know what it is
Maybe you have to Google it
deleted by creator
Yea my healthcare one quickly got down voted. Someone used GPT to try to disprove it. I’m even a big propilonent of public healthcare, but you can’t assume it is perfect.
at least the fragmented markets, limited venture capital and closed-mindedness of established compagnies are relatively well known and recognised, wouldn’t say Europeans aren’t ready to hear it
I was actually thinking the first two were the more detrimental, and are the reason behind lack of VC and closed minded companies. The fragmented markets is irritating, but overcomeable.
yeah I think I’d agree with that, hut I’m risk-averse myself so can’t go pointing blame at others
The opposite could maybe be said of the US: due to our crazy-pants lack of financial security, people are willing to do risky things, which, when successful, can drive innovation. I grew up in this culture, so it doesn’t make me uncomfortable, but understand it isn’t for everyone.
regulatory environments
Regulations are written in the blood of the victims.
And other regulations are written by the lobbyists of big companies.
Here in Germany we have so many regulations that don’t help anyone, except big companies who can circumvent or deal with them.
I don’t want to reduce environmental or worker protection, but we need to simplify a lot of regulations so that the time to do the paperwork is reduced, one of the solutions should be good digitalisation.
Some are, sure. I think most on Lemmy support those kinds. While I enjoy the effects, USB-C mandates aren’t written in blood, and I suspect the majority of regulations are of that variety.
The USB-C mandate is a direct result of it being actively ignored by Apple. The way to universal chargers, first through micro USB and then USB C was also championed by the EU but only as a loose industry agreement or so. Definitely not enough to reign in Apple which is why it was now made mandatory.
The main motivation was to reduce electronic waste due to every device having a different charger and often not even standardising in the same company.
I support the mandate. Just pointing out that the whole “blood of victims” thing, while true of some very important regulations, is nonsense for most of them. There were no victims of lightning ports. There was no blood involved in generic Champagne being called Sparkling Wine.
Rather have stifled innovation than innovation running rampant like what the US is doing.
With stifled innovation you only get through if you have an actual good idea instead of just an idea that makes money.
Ain’t no way you gonna put all of Europe into that statement. You do understand that each country have their own system, policies and regulatory laws?
The problem here is that what you’re saying is maybe true for a handful of countries while completely false and inaccurate for a handful of others.
We’re not one single entity. Your statement is just not accurate as a whole.
You all need to just start making English an official language across the EU. Yeah I know that’s very American imperialist of me to say, but most of you speak it already anyway and it would make travel and communication so much easier. It feels like you all are insisting on speaking different languages just to pretend you have unique cultures when let’s be real, once you welcome McDonalds that ship has sailed.
The Euro is just financial imperialism, whereby powerful Eurozone countries get to control the economies of weaker members.
US doller?
And yet those weaker countries (a) want to get into the EU and (b) don’t want to leave it. Absolutely nobody is forced to be controlled by France and Germany.
The Euro also brought some positive benefits for its citizens, no longer having to pay bank charges all the time for conversions between francs, lira, marks and so on. Which arguable was the original point, rather than some kind of imperialism.
buy and large Europeans are much more racist than Americans. in america it is not at all uncommon to have a ton of different races (I’m from a small town in Texas and we had a lot of Mexicans, black people, and a couple different Asian races (yes there are different ones)). that’s not to say every European is racist and it’s not to say that none of us are, but European countries tend to be much more homogeneous than the us and as a result tend to be more racist.
I hear the FDA actually controls American food in a much healthier way than European even though the opposite is commonly thought.
Europeans can definitely be much louder and annoying than Americans.
Europeans can be more racist, mention muslims or Romani people.
European democracy is just as bad.
The first and the last one are simply not true, the second and third, sure, sometimes
More chemical food dyes are allowed by the EU.
Which fascist did whatever EU country vote for this term?
More chemical food dyes are allowed by the EU.
But their regulations are more strict overall. There are a lot of US foods can’t be imported without reformulating the product.
Which fascist did whatever EU country vote for this term?
Bruh, we literally just elected a fascist felon who tried to overthrow the government when he lost the last time who openly surrounded himself with fascists pushing project 2025. It’s not even a close challenge…
Cognitive dissonance at its finest
I’m not saying the US didn’t vote for one of two fascists, but the EU is as well.
People voting for fascists ≠ bad democracy.
The democracy in the USA is bad because you have a two-party system, meaning that there’s barely any choice. In the Netherlands, we have a whole bunch of political parties that share space in Parliament, so that representation is proportional to the votes.
As a result, we have both the PVV and GL-PvdA in Parliament; one is very right on most subjects, the other is pretty leftist.
Muslims hated us first though and some of them (that currently live here) want to destroy our civilisation in favour of their barbaric medieval religion, and their continuing growth causes me some concern about when there are enough of them around, and someone has started a sharia party, and all the imams go “you must all now vote for sharia” how many of them will follow that decree (and how many non-muslim useful idiots will too).
Not enough concern for me to start hating or discriminating against them on an individual basis, but everyone’s different and some are further down that road than I am.
European democracy is just as bad.
Have you got a particular country in mind or are you referring to EU elections?
As an European, I think the obscene amount of lobbying we allow to happen around EU institutions is something that makes “European democracy is just as bad” sound reasonable.
The politics of Italy, the UK, France, Germany, Hungary, and others all seem close to or worse than the current state of American politics. The only difference is that the US wields a lot more global influence and has no neighbors powerful enough to keep it in check (sorry Canada and Mexico, I still love you). Europe is not doing enough to prevent the spread of its own far-right/neofascist groups and the inevitable erosion of human rights.
I’m referring to the general trend in voting for far right candidates
You are badly misinformed on this point.
Which one he made 4 points
Yes
Evidently that one
Not this one?
Definitely not that one. Are you insane!
Yes
Yes.
I hear the FDA actually controls American food in a much healthier way than European even though the opposite is commonly thought.
What do you mean by this? Because when I look at lists of banned substances and why, or pesticide limits, the EC seems much stricter than the FDA.
I was thinking of food additives and giving animals antibiotics
Where are you getting your information on that? Last time I checked there’s a whole lot of meats the EU won’t allow to be imported from the U.S., due to the additives and antibiotics used. This is particularly relevant to pork.
Lol, Europe spanks us on both those fronts.
I don’t know enough to speak effectively to the overall point, but the banned food additive list and is only a microscopic portion of what food regulators do
Europeans can definitely be much louder and annoying than Americans.
I’m general or just in certain topics?
Brits are utter CUNTS in this way
Sincerely, a Brit
I’m particular thinking of my time in southern Spain lol
FDA
What are you smoking? We don’t even have corn syrup in our soda or chlorine in our chickens, no putrasene for chocolate, in Europe we don’t even know what tums are which seems to be a common thing to take in the US. We have chemical food dyes but just because they’re chemicals - as is everything - doesn’t mean they’re bad.
I do agree the politics are shit though.
Tums is just calcium carbonate (chalk, basically) and is essentially the same as any other rapid relief antacid tablet. Google tells me that a brand called Rennie is the same thing and is apparently available in much of Europe.
Might be more commonly taken in the US because Americans tend to eat greasy, heartburn-inducing food more often.
Might be more commonly taken in the US because Americans tend to eat greasy, heartburn-inducing food more often.
Yeah that was the implication. Our food quality just doesn’t necessitate this sort of stuff.
Might depend on the region/cuisine though and different things that set people off.
I can’t eat most Italian food without taking a Tums or some omeprazole because the tomato, olive oil, and cheeses common in those sorts of dishes just wrecks me. But spicy food I don’t struggle with much at all, so Szechuan food and Mexican food doesn’t really bother me.
The one time I tried an English style breakfast with greasy sausage and beans also had me feeling sick most of the day, and I also skipped the tomato with that one. I shudder to think of what a German currywurst might do to me.
to be fair, if youre arguing about the effectiveness of agencies like the FDA, im not sure that this is really relevant. You can make greasy, sugary, carb laden food out of the safest, purest, most well researched ingredients without any additives and it will still be an unhealthy diet. The FDA cant reasonably mandate that people have to eat their vegetables after all, at least not and actually expect people will listen to them. Im not saying that the FDA actually does do its job better or worse, I dont know that, but I feel like food quality in the sense that an agency like that can control is more a “does this stuff contain toxic ingredients” rather than “does the culture of this area like a well rounded diet”.
The hills are alive with the sound of music
Yall need ac. Get with the fucking times bro. Every summer yall just dying over there. We aren’t fixing global warming in this lifetime just buy an ac unit
Youtube always shows off all the progressive and positive aspects of Europe. Bike lanes, relable trains. Was so jealous. Then heard that my game buddy is off to manditory milatary service.
The idea that the government can take away a year of your life, and thats normal is still a tough pill to swallow.
Smoking kills.
The numbers are a bit worse than I thought https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/smoking-rates-by-country.
As usual, Sweden is doing well. So are a lot of African countries.
Just came back from France it’s out of control there seemingly.
Once years ago when I used to smoke, on was visiting Ghana and people were literally yelling at me for smoking in public. It’s illegal to smoke in public in a few African countries at this point IIRC.
It’s always jarring to go to an otherwise gorgeous and cosmopolitan EU city and see the kind of cigarette litter the US has 30 years ago. Where I live in the US, cops actually write tickets for throwing butts on the ground, and people will yell at you for it. In Lisbon or Paris, there are entire parts of the city which just smell like an ash tray because of all the cigarette litter.
Most of us dislike it. But it’s also true that we have quite a lot of tobacco users. It’s just disgusting
Why wouldn’t Europeans be ready to hear that? Pretty sure we’ve been hearing it on a regular basis since the 70’s
