I am of the age to have kids, some of my friends have them, but I have mixed feelings about it, just wondering about other people’s experiences.
I’m female. Hell. Fucking no. Pregnancy and childbirth sound awful and I have zero interest in babies, children, or taking care of something that might grow to hate me. Too much societal stereotypical expectation as the mom. I understand today parenting is a lot more fair and equal but I would still be giving up my body and time for feeding, among other things.
But I’ve genuinely had to ask myself if I was a male? Would I want kids… I think one of the biggest turn offs is literally the female pregnancy/birth part. If I didn’t have to carry and give birth to a child? Maybe?
I understand adoption would still be a thing but I still think as a female I’d carry responsibility that I don’t want.
I’ve never had a desire to be around kids or babies and the screaming and crying sets me off when I’m in the vicinity. Then the teenage mood swings? I can’t fathom.
Overall I’m a hard no.
I have no idea why why any woman would want to get pregnant. It looks like an absolute terrible experience all around, and that’s not even accounting for the safety risks and the long term health reprocustions.
My wife hated being pregnant. It was the worst time in her life. But once the baby was there, hormones kicked in and all that pregnancy shit was instantly forgotten. Crazy how that works. She would never recommend pregnancy to anyone ever. She also hates how pregnancy is over-romanticized.
But she does recommend kids if you’re willing to commit a large portion of your adult life to be centered around the kid. If helps to live in a country where parents get many benefits like up to 3 years of parental leave, additional vacation days etc. We, as the parents, are having the best time of our lives. It was a difficult decision back then, and it took me until I turned 33 to finally decide to have a kid.
Some women say they enjoy it which I cannot really fathom. I did not care for it. As for why the woman would want to get pregnant though… I mean that’s about having a kid, not about being pregnant, isn’t it?
And also not to be crass, but haven’t you ever had sex that’s so good in that moment you and your body genuinely want to get pregnant?
Let me rephrase, then:
I’m surprised that any woman would want something enough that they’d be willing to endure pregnancy.
So my wife and I are child-free by choice. I’m in a rare position that I wind up speaking to many people in-depth about their lives, and the folks who have children talk about raising their kids all the time.
If I’m honest, many, many days I think “the moral of the story here is do not have kids, foks”.
That’s not to say that it’s all bad for everyone, but it is very bad for a lot of people. Essentially, their lives become exclusively about managing their children’s problems. Everyone thinks their children will be well mannered, sweet and thoughtful little guys who will fill their hearts with joy and purpose. The reality is many children are little nightmares with behavior problems that don’t seem to improve no matter how much work they put into seeing child psychologists and play therapists- every single day they spend 3-4 hours trying to calm their kid down as they fly into an uncontrollable rage, overturning tables and swinging their arms as hard as they can at the care givers and their parents. They want to help their kids learn how to control their feelings but they can’t. It’s really sad. The parents live in hell a little, every hour of the day is spent trying to manage their screaming, raging child.
I will also tell you that many people have tried to convince me over the years that we should have children. Family members, neighbors, co-workers… I also once had a neighbor (who’s kids were little terrors, I once saw one take a swing at his face because he was being punished, and they also once threw BIG rocks over the wall separating our properties without seeing where they’d land) say to me: “You just get to do whatever you want, don’t you?” when I was getting in the car to leave to go work remotely out in the countryside for a week.
My point is people don’t often tell you how hard it can be, most people lie and say that it’s great. At least half a dozen times I’ve had parents say “now I don’t wish that my child was gone or would never have been born as such, but I do often long for a life where I didn’t have to take care of them all the time”. Like they DO wish they never had kids, but they have to be careful to say they don’t want their child to disappear because its too dark of a thing to say.
Eh, I’ve got five kids and they run the gamut from incredibly cool to assholes. One is pretty accomplished professionally and made sure to find ways for both her dad and me (step-dad) in her wedding. Another went no contact over the divorce/remarriage of her mom. Another has struggled with addiction and mental health, but has overcome the former at least and recently graduated and is working as a nurse. The last two are still at home and one has emotional issues and some autism and weaponized incompetence, the other is hard working and responsible and has drive balanced with emotional maturity (though hormones are kicking in so…)
In my opinion, there is too much emphasis on being perfect parents and having perfect kids leading perfect lives. We love them all and make sure they know it. We try to set healthy boundaries and allow them the same. But at the end of the day, they are people and they are going to struggle and much of that is out of our control beyond being here with advice and help in times of crisis.
And even the assholes are pretty cool in their own right. Not fun to parent, but still people who I think are great to have in your life.
I do occasionally lament the path not taken, but if I didn’t have kids this would be the path I lament. (Probably just a smaller house and nicer vacations.)
I’m not trying to convince you, but I want to put in a word as a parent of assholes who sometimes daydreams about where my life might be without kids. It was a good decision for me. And if I didn’t have them to be accountable to, my depression might well have gotten hold of me in a moment of weakness and I wouldn’t be here to write this. My kids don’t make me happy (well, sometimes) and it’s not their job to, but I’m very glad I had them.
Thats all fair. I wrote what I wrote for OP, though, and I’m truly confident my wife and I made the right choice for us. I’ve also never felt babies or toddlers were cute. Yesterday, I went shopping for dress shoes, and there was a family there with a kid who was maybe 7, and he flopped down on a bench and shouted “PHONE” and his father handed him his iphone so the kid could watch youtube videos.
We’re going to Tenerife for 10 days in a week or so, and we’re looking at a 2 berth campervan to shoot off around Ireland in as well. l also just booked 5 days going to Valencia, Spain and then up to Barcelona by train to see my favorite band, Bad Religion play a show in both of those cities. I have a full time(ish) job that I actually like and also have time to try to make money doing my creative things, which is actually growing year on year.
I am also very aware of overpopulation. The planet has twice as many people now as it did in the 70s. It cannot endure continued human expansion when everyone wants their own house and car and swimming pools.
Not to argue your decisions, but you might want to take another look at your over-population if that’s a concern.
Yes, we seem to be passing a sustainable level of population and too many people are still held in poverty partly by over-population. However the long term trend is the opposite. By all studies, population will plateau in the next few decades, then start to decrease. While that also sounds good, it looks like it is likely to drop fast. We are more likely to have instability and disruption caused by population falling too rapidly.
If replacement value for a stable population is about 2.1 children per women, most developed countries are already well below that and their populations will drop significantly as older larger generations pass. Was it Korea that hit 1.1? That means cutting their population in half over the space of one generation While I have no idea how to fix the chronic war state between the Koreas, a sudden (in one generation) loss of both population and economy is all too likely to be seen as an opportunity for the war state to turn hot.
Even in the US, we’re a bit protected but our birth rate is well below replacement value. We’re still growing in both population and economy on the strength of immigration. Most countries don’t benefit from that and current politics may impact this and cause us to start shrinking as well. While some is a good thing, a lot of shrinking too quickly can be equally bad as overpopulation. We need to figure out how to stabilize at a reasonable birth rate more like 2.0, to steadily reduce population without disruption
When you say that’s “not good” do you mean economically or environmentally? I am concerned about biodiversity die-off, deforestation, ocean acidification etc etc… I am not concerned about economics. I know the latter can effect the former, but nothing will effect it like levelling the amazonian rainforest so every person gets to eat the beef they believe they’re entitled to
That’s at least as much a lifestyle question. As more people develop higher living standards, they tend to copy those before them. Ecologically we can’t afford for all the developing countries to live like the US, even with a much smaller population
But yeah, I’m more concerned about economies. Unstable economies tend to lead to wars and oppression. The only thing worse than our current environmental exploitation is human suffering, and we need to develop a more sustainable lifestyle that avoids that.
If you look at history of environmental protection, you’ll see that generally wealthier countries can afford more of it. If we want people to be able to afford taking care of our environment, they need to have a stable economy and be relatively well off.
I mean I dont disagree with anything youre saying. Wait, I actually disagree that human suffering is worse than a global extinction event. I often play druids when I play d&d though, so there you go
I did some research on the population today. Every page I’ve looked at says it’s going to peak around the 2080’s at around 10.4 billion and then start declining.
Granted there’s a wide range, depending on too many variables. The UN official prediction is as you said but many recent studies with updated birth rates have made much earlier predictions.
Reading some of these studies, the earlier predictions seems much more plausible, and they’re connected with a steeper dropoff. While “UN Medium” is too high, I’m more afraid of “UN Low”, and how that will disrupt the world my kids and grandkids live in
That’s all fair. We still vacation, although they are sanitized “family” vacations for the most part. Plus we aren’t the kind of people who want to be tooling about foreign countries without a curated experience. Take us to your beaches, cuisine, alcohol, and cultural artifacts.
You have a lot of work flexibility for those vacations. I can work remotely, but usually I’m not allowed to take my equipment out of the country to do so. My wife has a lot less flexibility. So we are limited by time more than anything else. We live modestly and I make a good living for the cost of living here. Kids would certainly put a damper on that lifestyle, but in our case, they aren’t holding us back.
Overpopulation is a whole other thing, of course. Looks to me like we’re headed toward another global conflict or pandemic that might resolve that in part. Not saying that’s a good thing, but I think life has a way of correcting imbalance whether you do it voluntarily or not. I certainly don’t want my kids to have to live through that, but like most other things, that’s out of my control and I can only help where I can and hope for the best.
thats all fair. just to say, my wife doesnt enjoy the flexibility that I do, I just shoot off for 5 days at a time. not having kids to co-parent makes it not be a big deal
Yeah, whenever people describe what it’s like to have children or whenever I happen to observe it for myself, it looks like literal hell on earth. People try to choose their words carefully to not say how miserable they are, but I can see it. You can’t even sleep anymore. Sleep deprivation is literally a torture technique.
And I mean…I get that some people have to have kids in order for the human race to continue to exist. And I’m glad my parents had me and that I got to experience life. But I just don’t know that I could do that myself. I don’t think that I could selflessly endure torture every day for years and years just to try to help another human being survive. I would like to think that I am a giving person, but not to that degree.
I am in no financial situation to need to think about kids.
Luckily, I don’t need to worry about stumbling into kids either.
I have a 7yo son and I do not regret having him at all.
I became a father pretty late in life, so I did all the traveling and partying I could before. Everybody around me started having kids anyway, and less friends where available when we were making plans.
Sure, life changes drastically when you have a child, but with a family of my own I now feel more rooted in life. It’s a quality of it’s own.
It was a nice time before, and I sure miss being able to decide more independently how to spend my time. But our family is a team with common interests and we enjoy spending time together.
As my son starts to be more independent himself, we now start following our own plans again one bit at a time. It is definitely a give and take scenario, but we three get a lot from it 😊.
Edit: More words to make things clearer.
If you don’t mind me asking, how old were you when you became a father? I’m 37, my dad was 45 when he had me. If I do end up having kids I damn sure do not feel ready.
In my experience it only gets harder the older you get (if I were in my 20s when I got my first kid it would have been easier to handle, except I was studying then…), and you will never really be ready for all the needs of a baby, it’s something you have to learn step by step.
That said when you first have them it’s a great experience being a parent.
I was 44. It was not a rational decision to wait so long, I just didn’t have the right relationship before.
Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuck no.
Never mind my genetic heart defect I don’t want to risk passing down, my niece and nephew are a handful enough as it is when I watch them for a weekend.
I love my kids so much that it’s changed my whole life. They have given value to my life that didn’t exist before, they made me grow and it’s an incredible experience to watch them grow. They made me happy, worried, scared, bored, proud and angry like nothing else ever did.
Yeah I sometimes envy my brother, who has all the money and time in the world to do whatever he wants. But I secretly pity him as well, because he lives like a grown-up, self-centerd child without true responsibilities, and all his toys and holidays feel meaningless to me.
I couldn’t recommend this to anyone but it is a true magic happens outside the comfort zone-experience that will never go away.This is a great description of me too! Having someone else to focus on, a longer future to focus on, really turned around how I live, what I do. I enjoy life a lot more, and more optimistic, more progressive.
No, no and no. I just have no desire, and I find my life so much easier without them. I have nieces and nephews and children of friends who I love and am happy to engage with, but also happy that I am not responsible for them.
Waht I regret pf having kids is my financial situation and who I had kids with. I should have chosen better but I was stupid and naive back in the day…
I have kids, I love them but I regret having kids with my toxic wife
I’m sorry :/
No kids and will not have kids. I have nieces and nephews that I enjoy spending time with and they satisfy any desire I might have. I have an uncle and aunt that are 85 and don’t look a day over 65. They never had kids and are some of the happiest and healthiest people I know.
No. No. No.
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Is like to, but I won’t before I’m in a good enough life situation, and either seems improbable or very far away, and while men can definitely have kids to very late in life, I don’t want to wear diapers at the same time as my kids might.
So yeah, mixed feelings.
If I won the lotto right now and found a spouse, sure. Out side from that, nah, prolly not.
No and no. I don’t think I’d want to subject my kids to where the world is headed. Also, too much of a long-term commitment that would significantly reduce my opportunities to do what I want, travel etc.
Those are both among the main arguments I have against having any.
As to the latter, I’m roughly satisfied in the department of things that kids would preclude.
As to the former, that’s part of the reason I want kids. I care about the people who will live in the future. I want a better life for them.
I can do what I can to improve the world in my life, but someone needs to carry the torch. Kids are an opportunity to teach some subset of the future population my values. I want to learn from my parents’ mistakes and my own life to make better kids that become better parents, who make better kids who become better parents, so on and so forth ad infinitum.
The intro to Idiocracy can be generalized: the world will be populated by the children of those who have children. If only the worst people reproduce, the future will be worse. Unless the ethical people reproduce and pass on their values, those values will die out. If we want the future to be better, we have to have kids, teach them to be better, and teach them to teach their kids to be better.
As for the travel argument, kids are so much fun to travel with! Experiencing new places through a child’s eyes!? They ask some great questions, and you get to hone in your own opinions as you decide the best way to explain life to them. Travel is the best way to raise tolerant and knowledgeable children. If you’re concerned about more… hedonistic travel just realize that you only get 18 to 20 years with them in your daily life, those designations will still be there. If you’re afraid that’s a long time then you likely haven’t had your 20th high school reunion yet.
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