No one in the government is going to do anything about it. They’ll argue about it, but nothing will be done. They all bow and lick the boot of a fucking clown. Trump, with a lot of help from billionaires and the media, lied and manipulated his way into power, but he’s just a mouthpiece and easily manipulated himself. He’s not smart enough to come up with any of this. The fact that 33%+ of the country’s population thinks he’s a genius is sickening.
Immigration is the horror show they’re going to use as a distraction while they pass Christofascist laws, all while Trump and his new billionaire buddies loot the country. I would suggest everyone actually read Project 2025 and see what their future plans are.
Most power is freely given in authoritarian regimes. We should fight back, not give up hope. We should call and write our representatives in congress.
This was a law that went throught congress first. 12 democrats voted for it. Those Democrats we should be flooded with our thoughts and feelings on the issue.
Republicans as well. I’d like to believe there are a few left who don’t agree with what’s going on, but are too spineless to do anything about it. Maybe guilt and pressure can make them fight next time.
We should fight too and nail with everything we have. We haven’t totally lost our democracy until they shred the constitution and write a new one, or pack it with amendments.
Seriously. Americans act like scared puppies, barking but backing down when facing an inbred orange pomeranian.
The people have the power. Organize statewide protests, block roads, and mobilize the working class to stand against fascism. Be more like the French citoyens.
Stop waiting for someone else to save your asses. This is 2016 all over again, when you pinned your hopes on Mueller or some other investigator. No one is coming.
Stop whining. Take action. Fight fascism.
Every member of the military needs to be reminded that they are obligated to disobey illegal orders. They can be criminally charged for obeying an unlawful order.
Every member of the military needs to be reminded that the Posse Comitatus act prohibits the military from engaging in domestic law enforcement activities.
And every member of the military needs to be reminded that immigration is a law enforcement issue, not a military issue.
That’s what yes-men are for – to work around such pesky limitations on power.
They will just remind them that trump is immune and he will pardon loyalists.
One final reminder to every military officer: The statute of limitations on these crimes extends well beyond Trump’s term. They can be prosecuted under the next president.
Not if trump blanket pardons. Say they move to impeach trump, he leverages the pardon to have those who would otherwise be court-martialled murder the legislator.
Trump’s power to pardon extends only to federal prosecution. Not state.
Which state jurisdiction is Cuba under?
The crime would be kidnapping, and it could be charged under the laws of any state they pass through on the way to Cuba.
Law enforcement is permitted to transport prisoners within the custody of the justice department, but the military has no state-level authority to do the same. Military members can be charged with state crimes if they do this.
I invite you to imagine a state or local prosecutor indicting a member of the armed forces for carrying out an order given by a superior.
I certainly am not the one to parse what state crime would be leveraged but while its maybe true they could get him on something I’d need some more clarification before I outright agree.
Not him. He’s immune, either as a matter of law, or because we are collectively too chickenshit to tell him no.
But I’m talking about the officers carrying out his unlawful orders.
“Just following orders” is not an excuse nor a pardon: military members can be criminally convicted for following an unlawful order. They just need to know what kind of order is illegal for them to follow.
Even in that case I’m not really sure. The most i know is military are tried by military courts which, I believe, aren’t really state or federal.
Those who could do something about it won’t.
Those who would do something about it can’t.
I’m sure the private prison industry will lobby to use them as slaves
Nice try FBI guy.
You caught me, I am a Fat Balding Italian. At least partially Italian.
I’m not Italian, but I am a Fat Balding Idiot so we’re all good.
I’m not Italian or Balding, but I’m super fat.
Fbi is watching
Anything new good on netflix?
Gitmo should have been shut down two decades ago. Torture, waterboarding, “advanced interrogation techniques” … don’t think we forgot about that. It’s a shame that no American president had the courage to close down dirty military institutions.
Its like having a permenant place nobody ever looks at with no rules.
Way too convienient to get rid of.
Probably more a decision of the intelligence communities more than the military.
You would prob enjoy Jon Stewart’s “is this fascism?” video.
Stop. This is so fucked up. This has nothing to do with president’s of christmas past. This is the current president opening a concentration camp. Just stop with this false equivalence.
Edit: the both siders are really coming in in force now.
Edit2: It’s really sad after everything people would upvote this both sides bullshit. If we put kamala in the white house do you think there is even a 1% chance she would open a concentration camp at gitmo? 40+ people upvoted this propaganda and haven’t learned a god damn thing.
Kind of jumping into the middle of yours and his here, but quite frankly the ghosts of our past are ALWAYS relevant and pretending things should be changed or answered for in the bubble of “here and now” does no good when anticipating the effects down the line. Torture has been shown to be ineffective and counterproductive. Many voters opposed Citizens United, yet it was passed under Obama. Many citizens opposed the Patriot Act, citing it’s opportunity to be misused to indefinitely hold people. And sure enough Bush signed it and we are still dealing with the repurcussions.
Both Obama AND Biden ran on the platform to close Guantanamo so it could not be misused, and did not. Could Trump have reopened it? Sure! But then we’d be faulting him for reopening it AND using it as a camp. It’s not “both sides nonsense” to say that if Obama had succeeded in it before he left office, we wouldn’t be in this position. (The earliest I could find with quick Google) He stated as early as 2009 in a press release he aimed to do so, and had 7 years after that to get the votes together, ultimately handing it off to Trump in 2016 with 0 inmates because he failed to get a vote to approve it. Trump didn’t close it for obvious reasons, and then Biden had 4 years to take his crack at it and also failed to close it. And now, here we sit almost 20 years later with bushes prison island still open, being used for the same evil bush used it for - hiding people from the press so those nasty headlines stop because they can’t access the island.
Their platform was not, “I will close gitmo”. Maybe somewhere in the parties platform it was in there but that is not what they ran on and quit trying to rewrite history.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/24/obama-guantanamo-bay-closure-republicans
It was definitely something he ran on, and Obama even signed an executive order to do it.
I’m not going to sit here and argue semantics with bad actors trying to obfuscate Americas plunge into fascism. I just want you all to know, you guys are disgusting.
PM if you want to know how I really feel.
It’s not semantics it’s literally cause and effect. In the initial post YOU replied to, they simply stated that if preventative maintenance had been done we would not be having to ask “what reaction is appropriate” so soon. I know YOU’RE looking for answers to the OP, but then you replied to someone simply bemoaning that we could have been better.
Obviously, at this stage no one is really sure what to do. Is the US really sliding into New Nazi Germany? To what degree? What is a proportionate response to any level? Should anyone actually do anything or will the government sort itself out? Remember, 49% of the voting base DID vote for him, as much as you or I disagree with them. To use violence against someone who is, at this stage, still a democratically elected leader, would be fair game to put anyone in prison. That’s the catch-22 of the issue - he’s still fairly elected, but as soon as the declaration of the formation of the first Galactic Empire, you’re already too late.
If someone DID react, what do you do? Peacefully- Strike at work? Block road/railways? Stand in the doorway of trump-aligned businesses? Or escalate into violence- Burn buildings? Which ones? Even further - Does every city devolve into street warfare like Mogadishu in 1993?
Cause and effect. What happens if you do the peaceful things? The violent ones? Will people follow your peaceful resistance and risk their jobs for your cause? Will people follow your violent warpath, and risk their lives for your cause? What happens to them if they do either, or do nothing and ignore you? These are the questions you ask not “well why is everyone bitching about black man sucks”. - not because powerful funny black man sucks, but because his inaction has us asking all the questions above so much sooner than anyone would have liked.
Dude, fascism didn’t spring into being fully formed out of nothing on the dawn of January 20th, just as the Roman Republic didn’t crumble in a day. It’s been decades and decades of baby steps towards this point, until we finally got to where things could get much worse all at once. Yeah, Kamala wouldn’t have made gitmo into a concentration camp, but she wouldn’t have dismantled the machinery built by the war on terror and the war on drugs that the fascists are using right now. Let’s not oversell it; at best, she would’ve kicked the can down the road another four years. Our past leaders all had chances and made commitments to close gitmo, and they had the perfect authority to do so, and then decided that they could wield the tools of fascism wisely rather than destroying them so that a future fascist wouldn’t have them just laying around.
Yes, I am against concentration camps, I just wish that our previous decades of leadership had been too. If we’re going to do accountability, let’s do accountability.
… keep wishing in one hand and shit in the other.
Okay, real talk, human being to human being. Things are bad enough as it is. You’re clearly not happy. I saw elsewhere that you said you’ve been trolled since 1 am, and that’s a super shitty sounding feeling. I release you from any charge to respond, you win the argument. Why don’t you take a break, go get some sunshine, drink your favorite hot drink, and call or text a friend, maybe one you haven’t spoken to in a while? Take care of yourself, take a break from social, come back if you want to when you’re feeling better.
You had 2 Democratic presidents since it opened. It’s a legitimate criticism. Trump is using existing infrastructure that could’ve been dismantled.
Same with the patriot act and surveillance state: the thing that we warned everyone about is going to happen: the President has a ridiculous amount of power that is going to be abused (even more) now. But the bipartisan consensus was that terrorism was worth giving up your rights and privacy for.
Thanks captain hindsight. You’re probably the only person who’s thought about gitmo in the last 20 years.
No, there’s at least two of us.
Did you know your inaction on the matter resulted in trump opening concentration camps. Good job.
What are you even talking about now?
Just telling it like it is. You had the opportunity to close gitmo if you did more and you let it pass through your hands. It’s like you personally put the concentration camp there.
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Wow, thank you. We’ve done exactly what we should in this moment of deprivation. We looked to the past and blamed a black man while throwing up our hands saying, “nothing can be done.”
Well done everyone. Good job. Really pulled through on this one. Thought we might be against concentration camps but how stupid am I to not forsee that the democrats did or didnt do something and now that’s all that matters.
PM me if you’d like to know how I really feel.
It’s important that while we are looking for solutions for the now that we also reflect on how it could have been prevented. If this is burned into our memories, maybe next time someone that represents us gains power we’ll force them to prevent something similar from happening again in the future.
Bitch please. If trump didn’t have gitmo it would be some other place. Yes, gitmo is convenient but you stop nothing by removing it from the board.
So fucking ignorant.
How about this, you don’t want concentration camps, vote for the person who isn’t openly fash.
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If we put kamala in the white house do you think there is even a 1% chance she would open a concentration camp at gitmo?
I believe that having the choice to either expand gitmo, close gitmo, or do nothing and leave it for the next republican to deal with, she would choose to do nothing about it, which is still better then Trump and why I voted for her, but it was a depressing vote. She is not more progressive then Obama and Obama did not close gitmo. You don’t gently wine down Auschwitz.
I was excited when Obama won and would close gitmo. I was hopeful that Biden would have a huge program to reunite the separated families. I begrudgingly voted for the cop that the DNC thought was a good idea after months of BLM protests. I’m burnt out now.
Gitmo was never an immigrant holding cell before for holding innocent individuals and families. Even if it didn’t exist Trump would have found some other place to set it up. Gitmo existing or not has nothing to do with anything.
Over turning Bush II’s policies were the primary reason I voted for Obama. Since then, I’ve only depressingly voted for democrats on the basis that they would at least slow the rise of fascism.
This isn’t “both sides”, but if we couldn’t get gitmo closed with democrats, how could we do it with bold faced fascists?
I mean, Biden did at least manage to get it down to just 15 inmates. Which isn’t perfect, but it’s pretty fucking good.
And I’m pretty fucking tired of people voting in Republicans who fuck things over royally, vote in Democrats to fix things, then vote Democrats out because they didn’t fix things fast enough. It takes a hell of a lot more time and effort to build and repair things than it does to blow them up in the first place. What’s that saying: Republicans get to be lawless while Democrats have to be flawless. Eff that shit.
And I’m tired of not being allowed to criticize democrats just because republicans are worse. I still voted for them. I should be allowed to criticize and pressure them to do better. Politicians wont do better unless you’re constantly on their ass.
I didn’t know Biden got it down to just 15. That was a big improvement
Exactly. 15 people in Gitmo is still a moral stain on the nation, but at least some semblance of progress was made. Not fast enough, still terrible, etc.
Trump is vowing to make that - just numerically - 2,000 times worse than the current numbers. And that’s just looking at raw numbers, not even getting into the ethics of the people themselves (do we really think they’ll be even half as rigorous as the shit level of rigor for former/current prisoners if they’re trying to capture thirty thousand people?).
Oh, so the expectation was always that a authoritarian was going to seize control of the federal government and open a concentration camp there? Funny, cause I never heard that argument but, yeah, sure, completely salient now.
You’re talking like it hasn’t always been a concentration camp. If liberals bothered to hold their own people accountable and have an actual red line that couldn’t be crossed, someone like Trump could have never made it into office.
The most gitmo ever held was maybe 700-800 people. Trumps talking 30000. Just because it’s a building and war crimes are done there doesn’t mean it’s a concentration camp.
People are still being held there, with no due process for over 20 years.
1 person being held with no due process is as bad as 30000.
Liberals and their fucking trump derangement syndrome keep fighting the wrong things.
“Once a cop is responsible for 1 murder he may as well continue to kill because 1 murder is the same as 30,000 murders.”
1 person being held with no due process is as bad as 30000.
Please explain this one to me, because I’m not understanding your math.
Bush II was already fascist and used gitmo for exactly that. It’s specifically outside the US border so they can make an argument that American civil rights laws don’t apply there. At the very least, press and public can’t reach it.
People were screaming from the top of their lungs about this exact scenario. Yes, this was expected and we cared too much about the economy to care.
Again, this is a false equivalence. Show me where bush II staged a coup. I have no love for the man but it’s entirely irrelevant to what is happening today.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/10/timeline-20-years-of-guantanamo-bay-prison
Show me on the timeline where, “people screamed at the top of their lungs” that gitmo would be repurposed to open concentration camps.
Oh so as long as people aren’t open and proud about it, you’re fine with thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis being raped and tortured by Uncle Sam.
Good to know the only real problem here for you is the rhetoric.
What you’re saying right now is rhetoric. I have never been for gitmo, and you fucking know that. Gtfo with you lecturing anyone about rhetoric.
2000 was a judicial coup dawg
You really don’t understand what false equivalence is and frankly I can’t teach you if you haven’t caught on yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/03/politics/brooks-brothers-riot-trump-what-matters/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore
This shit has been a slow boil since Bush II or even Goldwater.
Yes, actually. Edward Snowden risked hanging for treason by leaking the NSA mass surveillance program for just this reason. He’s the last true patriot, imo, and I wish he’d stayed and made the government take him to trial over their blatantly illegal program instead of ending up as a trophy on Putin’s shelf.
Again, not playing your fuck fuck game.
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How many people has Donald Trump had tortured…so far? His crimes still pale in comparison to George W Bush, who should have been hanged by the neck until dead as the war criminal he is.
Ok?
This has everything to do with past presidents. They all wanted Guantanamo Bay to stay open so they could torture and imprison people. They did, and now Trump is.
It’s not like nobody could have predicted this. It’s not like nobody told them, “You should stop torturing people, stop imprisoning them there, and close the place down.” … In fact, they all heard that advice and ignored it, because they were happy to forget about human rights.
Of course Trump is doing terrible things, and this is one of them. But he’s not the first, and he certainly won’t be the last. And what you wrote about Kamala is on-point, but you don’t even see it, do you. Would she have closed Guantanamo Bay down? Of course not. Because she feels the same way.
Guantanamo bay was a thing ever since 2002. Biden and Obama tried to make it smaller. Trump is trying to grow it. If there was a clear action to be done that ended this abhorrence it would have been done by now already, but it has proved too resilient already. So no, there isn’t anything that’s gonna be done about it, except grow it as per Trump’s request.
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“We tried to do a thing but it was hard so we did half a thing.” - Democrats
“We tried to do a thing but it was hard so we’re giving up. Enjoy high grocery prices” - Trump
Almost the same, but not quite.
30000 immigrants.
Check the number.
Maybe when you get a break from fapping over trumps portrait.
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^ ^ ^ “I am very clever” ^ ^ ^
No one is doing anything, because we all decided when facists win legally, we must play by their rules of must not do anything about it.
No one is doing anything
Plenty of not-terminally-online people are organizing to resist mass arrests and deportations. Reach out to your local DSA. My Houston chapter’s been great about pulling together legal resources, just for starters.
We could all decide otherwise. That would mean ignoring nay sayers and aligning yourself with only people who share your values.
And then the US said to Germany, “We too, can do Auschwitz.”
Nice try, FBI
American here:
I would like for the civilized world to do a full trade embargo on the US. I want the economy to nosedive so hard that either the GOP votes to remove the motherfucker from office, or get crushed in the biggest electoral landslide in history in 2026.
the unfortunate thing here, is that the US and the USD is so integral to global trade, that we would probably experience a global economic downturn similar to that of the great depression.
That’s happening either way, my dude.
depends on how stupid the admin is. It shouldn’t happen. But we’re moving a lot further towards it.
They’re a perfect mix of people that are stupid, evil, and greedy that will absolutely devastate the global economy.
yes but i’m hoping that someone will knock some sense into them, somewhere along the line, ruining an economy is a good way to get yourself killed, as the leader of a country.
The only problem with accelerationism, is that sometimes it accelerates in a direction we didn’t expect or want.
It’s very possible that whatever terrible consequences befall our political body have been planned well in advance by people smarter than us, or those in the cameras, and this whole thing is the groundwork for actually seizing and abolishing democracy.
Best case, we depose a wanna-be despot because things go to shit.
More likely case: we get both concentration camps AND a dictator.
It’s very possible that whatever terrible consequences befall our political body have been planned well in advance by people smarter than us, or those in the cameras, and this whole thing is the groundwork for actually seizing and abolishing democracy.
grade A cope
this is some sector C level copium right here
I don’t think you know what that word means, but it’s okay, even if you’re illiterate that just puts you in the lower 25-fucking-percentile in the nation.
that’s unfortunate for you, since i am probably more educated than half the people on this site.
Including you, call me when the NWO doesn’t take over the government and the US just collapses (or doesn’t, which is much more likely)
I genuinely have no idea what you’re babbling about mister “I’m smarter than half the people here” big shot super important dude.
It’s wild how the people who are most eager to profess their own intellect are always the ones who can’t communicate worth shit and are completely ruled by reactionary responses and surging emotions. Again, it’s ok. You fit right in with most American median voters. Pull up a chair and take a number. All the numbers are #1 so you feel important and special just like everyone else.
I genuinely have no idea what you’re babbling about mister “I’m smarter than half the people here” big shot super important dude.
i know, unfortunate that the illiterate retard (me) on the site is smarter than like 50% of the user base, truly some trying times we live in.
It’s wild how the people who are most eager to profess their own intellect are always the ones who can’t communicate worth shit and are completely ruled by reactionary responses and surging emotions.
i’m so mad rn lil bro, you couldn’t even perceive how angry i am right now, no cap, fr fr.
Again, it’s ok. You fit right in with most American median voters.
the american median voter has an overwhelmingly overlap with people being ok with donald trump. So.
Pull up a chair and take a number. All the numbers are #1 so you feel important and special just like everyone else.
so true, we stopped past that number, just didn’t need anything else, binary ftw.
The world has that option. Come to think of it, it’s pretty pitiful they haven’t the humanity to stand up to this monster looming across the sea.
I’m almost as disappointed in the rest of the world not standing up to the USA as I am disappointed in my fellow citizens’ abdication of social and civic responsibility, common decency, and basic humanity.
As a Canadian, it really really sucks that we have to hurt our friends to help them, or you’ll hurt us all worse. It really sucks that you, personally, had to say those things too, but it’s also brave, and makes me hopeful that we can get through this.
Another Canadian with the same sentiment.
I feel like the sane world needs to make a global Alliance where if America tarriffs any country in the membership, everyone else responds with similar tarriffs.
America needs to learn that it isn’t alone in the world and it can’t survive in its current state without friends.
Poor Columbia having to give in to America’s demands over coffee, if they had an alliance with other countries maybe they could have said fuck you Trump.
German here, I stand with the same statement the from the guy above me that referred to the guy more above.
Anyways - In the first tariff “war” trump unleashed in after 2016 we tried to tariff stuff from the US, but since we don’t import a lot of things from the US, we only had tariffs on Whisky and Jeans (I’m not even joking, this happened).
That is probably the most effective thing that could happen. But if they won’t do it to Israel for committing genocide then I doubt they’d do it for it’s political doppelgänger.
I think it’s more likely they’ll go after us than go after Israel, because the world doesn’t have centuries or millenia of anti American bigotry stored up that in a twisted fashion leads them to let the Israeli government do whatever it wants to poor Muslims as long as that means there’s a Jewish state.
What complicates matters is all the military power we have and the certainty most people have that Trump would order it to attack anyone who embargoes us.
Translation: I don’t want to to go or of my comfort zone and actually do anything. I just want those other people across the world to fix it for me.
I am asking for help because I can’tfix this on my own. It’s okay to do that.
Just go out there and protest man. You can do it. Organize and all that. But some shotguns or whatever.
Spoken like someone who’s been to countless protests and organized community events. Countless.
I have over 50 guns. I’m good there.
I think it’s a distinct possibility, obviously there is something going on that he doesn’t want the American people to see. Best case scenario, ill treatment of detainees, worst case scenario, yeah it’s a death camp.
Wait wut?!?
Is there a source you can link to?
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/16368518
There’s a bunch, but I put an AP news, Rueters and NPR link above
opposition? in THIS democratic party?
Where do i sign up for the flash mob?
Bay of Pigs 2: America invades America on location in Cuba.
