I fled Reddit due to the authoritarian mod craziness, but Lemmy.world seems infested with too much Communist craziness. I’m leftist, but communism is idiocy. Is there an instance that leans more democratic socialist but refrains from going off the deep end?
i was as naive as OP back in the day, it’s alright bro you’ll get there
I’m leftist, but
classic lol
.world is about as anticommunist as you can expect, if that’s not enough for you maybe you could relocate to one of the Nazi servers
says the .ml person commenting on .world. it does not matter what any particular places people is like unless they defederate from each other. @Tedesche@lemmy.world is talking about his experience and is likely not seperating out where users come from. in addition anyone can make a user on any open instance. I actually would like to see more closed instances that are about a particular local groups like sci fi conventions or makerspaces and such.
Nah, .world is anti-tankie, but since you are a known Tankie it’s unsurprising you would conflate the 2
If the de facto gatekeepers of the genocidal liberal death cult status quo on the fediverse aren’t liberal enough for you, I think you’d feel right at home at https://shitlib.cuck/
Username checks out
Try just joining a local domain which is ostensibly apolitical, then find communities that meet your needs
Lemmy.world is actively opposed to Marxism and Communism (from moderator and admin POV).
As a side-note, all Communists support democracy, “democratic socialism” is usually ill-defined and meaningless, to one person it means the Nordics and to others it means Marxism without revolution, it only really hurts description.
deleted by creator
To be fair, most people don’t support “Democratic Socialism” as a thing to begin with. Socialism is democratic, period, the idea that there’s a special subset of an already democratic system that’s especially democratic isn’t helpful.
Marxists, for example, already support democracy. The so-called “democratic Socialists” tend to support reformism, which is wrong and not any more democratic than regular Socialism.
Lol Cowbee is a well known Tankie, .world is anti-tankie, which are authoritarian “communists”
They’re not opposed to communism. Just tankies like yourself.
“Tankie” is a caricature. The idea of a tankie is the ideal vision of a McCarthyian Communist. In reality, the overwhelming majority of people labeled as such don’t actually fit that label, it’s more of a way to cast an image of someone’s positions based on, say, support for AES countries, and twist that into the evil Commie Pinko that haunts the dreams of 1960s children in the US.
I’m not an academically trained scholar regarding left-wing theory, but I’d assume that communists and social democrats are still part of the same group, with one naming themselves after a shorter-term goal-state, and the other naming themselves after a longer-term goal-state.
When we talk about state models such as republic, democracy, autocracy, we’re either describing a current status, or a model we might want to follow or avoid. When we talk about ideologies (conservatism, liberalism, communism, feminism, etc.) they assert specific values and presumptions that might or might not be true or workable. For instance, in the communist ideal, every participant has exactly the same amount of political and material power; influence is perfectly distributed. But we have no idea how a state like that would look, or work, or if we could ever get there.
Every model and every ideology has problems and concessions we don’t understand and have to correct for. The one-person = one-vote thing seems intuitive for democracy, but has terrible side effects, and we’re still sorting out alternative election models that might work better.
All this is to say it’s a really bad idea to treat any one of them as a racehorse or football team or a banner under which to rally and consolidate political power. None of the models or ideals we have are perfect or absolute, and we have to be prepared to adjust them on the fly, especially as we content with corruption and bad actors who exploit vulnerabilities.
I suspect everyone on the left ultimately seeks a society in which everyone is materially provided for, in which liberties are as extensive as possible while providing for protections and considering human biases towards certain abberant behavior (e.g. drunk driving) in which there are as few social strata as possible and power is as well distributed as possible. The models that accommodate all these, even to partial degrees, are still very fuzzy. (Western civilization has been working on them for only three hundred years or so.)
So we’re at least in the same book, if not on the same page.
You should use Hexbear. There aren’t any communists there. Just posers who think communism means supporting dictatorships.
Hexbear supports AES, that’s nowhere near the same as thinking “communism means supporting dictatorships.” It’s far easier to find people that have actually read theory on Hexbear than in most other instances on the fediverse.
I’m so sorry to hear that tankies support the Advanced Encryption Standard.
Actually Existing Socialism. Cuba, the PRC, Vietnam, Laos, the former USSR, etc.
Why aren’t the Haudenosaunee on that list? Isn’t that a bit racist?
Tribal societies that don’t have advanced industrialization have a separate Mode of Production from “Socialism” in the Marxian sense. No racism at all.
Yeah, but on the other hand, socialism is when the people own the means of production, and the Haudenosaunee have/had way more of that than USSR and China.
I disagree, tribal societies could only have that kind of relation by virtue of being small. In the age of modern industry, this is no longer feasible while maintaining large-scale manufacturing.
.world is hardly the home of the tankie, what you see might be posts from lemmy.ml
There are two other places known as lemmygrad and hexbear that are outright communist/tankie that you’ll see occasionally brigade when someone posts anything positive about the USA.
This and most others are pretty sane. One that comes to mind for what you’re asking particularly might be https://slrpnk.net/signup who seem kind of left but not Stalin left.
Otherwise there’s the join Lemmy link at the bottom of any given instance to look through.
seconding solarpunk, it’s a beautiful movement in general
It’s called “Bluesky” lol
As someone similar to you, blocking and stuff seems the right approach vs. trying to find a specific instance.
Bingo. Making a new account somewhere else likely won’t help. The only way it would is if all the content OP objects to comes from a single instance and they find another instances that’s defederated frrom that source instance.
@IMALlama@lemmy.world
@Tedesche@lemmy.world @andyburke@fedia.io
adding my voice to the mix. I have always advocated blocking. My experience with mmo chat taught me that a cesspool can turn into a pretty nice place with some blocking. My basic rule is subscribe to what I like and block what I don’t and everything else im indifferent to. don’t like sports then block those communities. like comics and subscribe to those. indifferent to animal pictures then let it lie and you will see them when you browse all.
Let’s talk about this in a little more detail.
What do you consider going off the deep end? What do you consider leftist? Which ideas do you consider idiocy? What is your idea of a society worth living in?
I personally am open to any ideas that exclude discrimination of identity. For me the tolerance paradoxon applies.
I’m happy to hear your thoughts.
I’m also looking for a place without edgy or crazy people.
For me its:
Democratic: yes
Socialism/social net/sharing/helping: yes
Dictatorial: no
Tankie: no
Undemocratic: no
China or CCCP/URSS worship: no
Soviet whitewashing: no
That’s about it.
Edit: I was looking for a community not an instance (I have my own but I still uses .world as I had some trouble, time to migrate back home I guess :-) ) but thanks for all helpful comments!
Block the Lemmy.ml instance and there goes most of those people.
many instances, like mine, are ‘generic on-ramps’. their ‘main’ purpose is to provide unfettered access to all other instances.
in this way you curate your own feeds by subscribing to what you want.
That’s .ml
I think thats valid. You don’t have to accept or look at everything.
Do you mind sharing what your ideal society looks like? I think a lot of folks share common ideas but have vastly different labels for them.
I’ll go ahead:
I personally want to work. It can be fun. I want to do things I’m actually good at. I want to be able to afford food and housing. I want to know that i wont starve if I become sick or disabled. I want to be able to survive when I’m too old to work regularly. I want my family to be safe no matter what.
I think those are pretty understandable goals. I want to live in a world where this applies to as many people as possible.
Yeah we all have to work (or contribute to society by our possible means) that’s a given I think.
No ultra rich people (but you need to dream, so no communist pay either). UBI that covers basic food & housing. Art and science as the goal of society (after taking care of everyone).
The problem is what to do with all egomaniacs, is there enough benevolent people or will nobody become a dentist if you don’t need to work (that much)? I mean lots of people get up in the morning and spends their whole life working, because of some crazy angry people (don’t believe me? Go work in some big companies). How do we re-train those people, how do we keep an army? Lots and lots of open ended questions here.
See! I fully agree on the social aspects of your ideals. I would like to give my opinion on your points. Please read them as ideas, not a form of diminishing your thoughts.
Yeah we all have to work (or contribute to society by our possible means) that’s a given I think.
Actually, i dont think we do. We produce a lot more than we need (food for 10 billion people) and a lot of crap that only fuels consumerism. Not saying there is an alternative yet but maybe we can agree on “some people definitely need to work for us to survive and thrive.”
No ultra rich people
Fully agree
(but you need to dream, so no communist pay either).
But do we? Or is it just a concept we use to keep the current situation going? Would we not dream if we just had the same?
UBI that covers basic food & housing. Art and science as the goal of society (after taking care of everyone).
100% agree
The problem is what to do with all egomaniacs, is there enough benevolent people or will nobody become a dentist if you don’t need to work (that much)?
would you rather do an easier job that one you have passion and skills for if they were paid the same? I agree that moving trash or working in the sewers should potentially be paid extra. I think currently, education being expensive, doctors are kept scarce. Make it free and watch.
I mean lots of people get up in the morning and spends their whole life working, because of some crazy angry people (don’t believe me? Go work in some big companies).
I have. Huge companies are cancer. Nothing more.
How do we re-train those people, how do we keep an army? Lots and lots of open ended questions here
from the bottom up, as always. We vote as left as possible (those who still can). We demand UBI, free education, free public transport, fair taxes, free healthcare, etc. We build communities (currently underway) to subvert oppressive systems with mutual support groups, etc.
Again, this is just my personal opinion so please disagree wildly if you wish. Just try to stay constructive.
When you say “but do we?” you hit the problem I see almost always in these kind of discussions.
Yes we do need to dream. Other people don’t need to dream. They both exist and that’s just about one thing. Some have to have a house, another hates children, a third loathes bicycles for whatever reason, another hikes but can’t understand why foreign aid isn’t used for urbanism.
It’s all chaos, and one system fit all isn’t going to cut it IMO. It’s also the reason democracy seems so crappy (no one ever really gets anything the politicians promise) but also the only working system.
Rant off/ :-)
So what can we do to improve our democracies?
lemmy.dbzer0.com - anarchist, hates all states, both USA and Russia/China types
Other non-tankie options are
sh.itjust.works - shhhh… 🤫 it… just works… 😉
lemmy.ca - Canadian 🇨🇦
sopuli.xyz - Run by a Finn 🇫🇮
db0 is a really cool person. Has the piracy sub there too :-)
Sopuli is very pro Ukrainian. Cool good finnish guy it seems.
You could replace the socialism with communism and it would be the perfect party.
We need democratic communists. Too many of these so-called “communists” are just bad faith actors who ignore Karl Marx’s teachings, worship dictatorships and play dirty.
Democratic Socialists are the next best option at the moment.
Isn’t communism based on revolution though? (PS. It’s not I who downvoted you, quite childish I think to do so).
I’m surprised you see a ton of that on lemmy.world, always found that instance rather tame and moderate, at least by lemmy standards. Certainly compared to Hexbear, ml and Lemmygrad. Are you sure those weren’t federated posts from those instances? Anyway, lemm.ee is pretty neutral, lemmy.dbzer0.com leans more anarchist. But you could also just stay on .world and subscribe to communities that align with your views on whatever instance. Unless you have an issue with the moderation on .world specifically, it doesn’t really matter.
“Authoritarian mod craziness”? What communities were you hanging in where this was such a widespread problem?
Also .world is definitely not overwhelmingly communist. You need to start subscribing/blocking just like you probably did on Reddit. There’s no underlying algorithm making decisions for you here. You have full control of what you see. If you don’t like what you see, you can fix it!
I mean let’s not pretend that there aren’t a lot of psychotic mods on world. It’s gets pretty bad. Hell I got banned from a community for criticizing a New York Post article once. Which I mean shit, how do you not?
I never pretended otherwise. But I gotta tell you the same thing I said in another comment where someone was allegedly banned for basically nothing: I highly doubt that’s the entire story
You can go look it up if you want it was like I don’t know 8 months ago. Literally all it was. That’s why it’s stuck in my craw. Didn’t give two shits about the community, I wasn’t a member of it. Just so weird that that Jeff guy banned me for criticizing the New York Post.
I don’t give two shits about the community. I wasn’t a part of it
That’s another red flag right there 🤷♂️
All right I’ll bite, why is that a red flag? This is Lemmy. Not so big that you don’t end up in communities you’re not a part of all the time. Hell I’m not a part of this community.
You’re so certain you did absolutely nothing wrong, but that requires you to understand the community rules and be certain you didn’t violate them. But you admit you not only aren’t a member but don’t give a shit about the community.
Do you really not see how this comes across?
Can you show me one community on all of Lemmy in which it’s rule says you cannot criticize the source of a post? Also I don’t know why you think I’m incapable of checking the rules of a community, extremely insulting for no reason whatsoever. If you’re so positive I did something wrong you’re free to prove it. You can go back and look it up.
Do you not see how you’re coming across though? You say you’re not pretending that there isn’t a massive moderation problem on world and here you are tying yourself in knots when people tell you of massive moderation problems on the world.
TBF, I got banned from Reddit after RvW for saying riot police should quit their jobs en masse. Reddit likes to quench any kind of dissent
I hate the shithole site and Spez but I’m struggling to believe that’s all there is to the story
The thread it was on was an absolute shit show. Right wingers were out en masse reporting every left leaning comment. Eventually the mods and admins showed up and began deleting or banning every left leaning comment, even relatively mundane ones.
lemmy.world
is too communist for you?!?!?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Spamming emojis just makes you look ridiculous and like your opinions don’t matter
Replying uselessly to comments you don’t like just to defend a censorship-happy neoliberal hivemind hotbed makes you look like a petty, bored, very gullible person.
I’d call .world default liberal instead of neoliberal personally. A lot of demsoc types.
That’s fair. However, I’d say anyone that is just fine with the deaths of >50,000 innocent people because of some tenuous revenge premise fall closer on the politicial spectrum to Reagan or Bush than anyone I’d even consider labelling a “liberal”.
Guy, you need to get outside more. This person’s reaction matches about 95% of people in the world.
removed by mod
Don’t call me Guy, Buddy!
Don’t call me buddy, guy!
Yeah, that’s me. Mr. Genocide. Which ones though? What of my comments which of course are in favor of genocide is your favorite of the ones that are in favor of genocide? I’m sure you wouldn’t just be making up bullshit.
removed by mod
Holy shit! Genocide, banning, censoring, trolling, and worst of all, brigading.
I didn’t realize you’d written my name down. Oh shit. Well, that pretty much settles it, I withdraw entirely my request for some sort of proof of these things you’re accusing me of.
I’m pretty sure they were attacking people over their stupidity in falsely equating Harris to Trump and the comparative damage they’d have for not just the genocide in Gaza, but also Russia’s genocide in Ukraine. Anyone who felt they were the same deserves many “🤣” for their performative BoTh SiDeS grandstanding.
removed by mod
As so easily predicted, immediate deflections away from the most clear-cut logical and ethical choices anyone could possibly make. Trump thanks you for your service, you good little accelerationist, you ;)
Edit: not sure why you deleted that. Also, I read that book. And Blowback. And A People’s History. Ever read The Shock Doctrine?
deleted by creator
Are you an American?
I am. I’ve traveled internationally some amount. I am sure it varies by country, but the people who have a notable reaction to China/USSR-style communism, from outside the US, have a much stronger hostility to it than the US people I know. Because generally they have more experience with it.
US people don’t like socialism, and think it is “communism.” That part is true, but that wasn’t what I was talking about.
The idea that so many of the people on Lemmy are communists is what led me to think you’re an American. I am too, which is why I know the bias of the American political spectrum starts way more to the right than most of the world. So Americans tend to label ideas more left leaning than they really are.
The communists and tankies are about 90% on the lemmy.ml instance. The rest of Lemmy is left but most as are not communists.
The communists and tankies are about 90% on the lemmy.ml instance. The rest of Lemmy is left but most as are not communists.
Yeah. In case it wasn’t clear, I was talking about being able to encounter overt authoritarian communists at all on lemmy.world, not saying that most of the lemmy.world users themselves are communists. My reaction was very specifically to the word “communist” and not referring to the existence of anarchist / general working-class oriented stuff on Lemmy.
I think most of the lemmy.world users fall pretty much in the sensible region of opinion: Israel is bad, the CCP is bad, Russia’s war in Ukraine is bad. Gay people are ok. Unions are good and the US state is oppressive. Just normal stuff (within my own personal Overton window). Of course a lot of US people would see that as some horrifying communism, but that’s not at all what I was saying, although I can see maybe it came across that way.
Mostly I was saying that I can sympathize with this person coming to lemmy.world and seeing federated content that says “yay China, Tienanmen Square was exaggerated, all this stuff about North Korea is just giving them a bad rap because imperialism” and having this shocked reaction because of it. Whether or not it originates from lemmy.world, it’s weird to see it on lemmy.world or on the modern internet at all. Usually the free exchange of ideas can educate people out of that pretty quickly. I think it’s a symptom of (a) Lemmy having particular features which enable someone to create an echo chamber specifically for proliferating that stuff (b) the world as a whole has gotten more unhinged from reality and so it’s easier for counterfactual stuff to find a solid footing.
.world is the most liberal place on the lemmy lmao. If they are too left for you idk what to tell you
There is nothing “left” about tankies.
I never mentioned “tankies” or whatever tf that means
Obviously but read the room.
