Evil china and evil russia have never done anything to my country while the US and Europe did and continue to do so, is that clear enough?

Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.

Excuse me? The US treats my people like animals and you want to bring human rights into the picture?

Whilst everyone here is just disagreeing with you on basically all points OP, I have to agree. There have lately been a lot more weird memmes, often factualy inaccurate and providing no real argument, that support or defend the Chinese, Russian or North Korean government. I do not in any way agree with the sentiments of these memes* but if people actually hold those opinions their free to discuss it, but I would wish that they didn’t do it in the form of bad memes in the general use communities, but maybe instead in one of their own, as stuff generally works on Lemmy.

Also, a lot of the worst memes came from one single account. I have since blocked that one person and it improved the situation remarkably. And for anyone who wants to attack me for “not being able to stand hearing other people’s opinions”, the memes this person (or to be real, probably bot) posted were factualy incorrect, badly made and not funny in any way. I don’t come to Lemmy for political discussion but for memes and other fun threads.

* This is just about my personal opinions and doesn’t effect anything I wrote above but here we go. Read if you want. Regarding the endorsements of China, Russia and North Korea my main problem is that I think democracy is the most important feature of a state for I think yhat the state should exist to serve it’s people and to do so in a way that reflects the people’s wills. Therefore, I have a really hard time supporting any non democratic state. Also, in regards to Russia, they invaded Ukraine! I have a very hard time having any empathy for a state that shows such violent aggression against one of their neighbours. Especially as I can not see how Russia or the rest of the world stands to gain anything from this war. Ofc North Korea and China have also done horrible things but I think have have gotten my point across at this point, I think democracy and free speech is important. That said, if someone can point to a particular part of, or some project of, some non democratic country that’s working well and then say “hey, maybe we should try that”, then I have no problem with that. But fully endorsing and saying that we should be like a, for example, China to me is a absolutely horrible idea.

Also, because people will claim that I did even though I didn’t say a shit about it, I do not either particularly like the US. What I said about democracy and not invading other countries applies to them to. I’m also not from the US but rather from Sweden in the EU

EDIT: after reading even more of this thread I think I’m starting to understand that many people just support Russia and China because there a counterweight to the US. For me this could maybe be a valid argument for supporting some of what China does but it does not for me mean that I can endorse China and their non democracy leadership and darker sides. Things simply don’t add up for me, I can’t support China because the US shouldn’t get to powerful because China should neither have that power.

OP, asking this on lemmy.ml is highly amusing. Think about the domain name you asked this on for a minute.

The US always needs a boogeyman to justify massive defense spending

Some good answers already here, but I can only answer for myself: I used to be that kind of leftist that was “Well I want socialism, but not like those scary foreign authoritarian countries. They’re doing it wrong! Or that’s not really socialism!” At some point after learning more history and talking with others online, I’ve softened my view on these places. Some of that is learning that some of what I knew about them was straight up misinformation, but some of it comes from a shift in perspective: These aren’t abstract ideals of countries. They’re real countries. With real people, real histories, real material conditions, real geopolitical relationships to deal with, etc. They’re doing something really difficult and it’s really easy to be an armchair quarterback while sitting cozy in the US where I don’t have to deal with any of their tough decisions or the consequences of them. Am I happy with them doing some authoritarian policies? No. But maybe they’re necessary to deal with the interference of the US? I don’t know for sure if that’s the best approach, but I don’t have to imagine the counterexample of what it looks like if you don’t take defensive measures, the US has helpfully provided a bunch in the form of all of the countries they’ve backed coups in for the crime of electing even a slightly leftist government. We could squabble about better ways to deal with this, but neither of us has the full context to have an educated discussion on the matter. Also for the genuinely bad stuff, I wouldn’t go as far as specifically supporting those things, but it’s worth putting them in perspective. You can’t talk about China online without someone bringing up Tienanmen Square, meanwhile the US has been a never-ending avalanche of evil in it’s short history, but you can talk about any number of things not related to politics in the US without a random leftist wandering into the discussion about the latest hollywood movie shouting the entire lyrics to “We Didn’t Start the Fire.” I mean we’re happy to bring all that stuff up if it’s in the right context, but people are so deranged about communist countries that the ONLY thing they can think to bring up in relation to them is their less savory moments that may or may not even be true/exaggerated.

It’s really hard to sort good information from bad about these places because there’s so much propaganda. I get that those other countries have an incentive to put out their own propaganda, but it’s hard for me to know what their reach is or what their motivations are or how much they are lying vs countering US misinfo. Meanwhile I KNOW the US has a fairly sophisticated system of propaganda spanning government agencies, media companies, NGOs, etc. I KNOW the US is motivated to prop up the interests of capitalists and try to stop other countries from pushing back against them. A lot of the bad shit and lies the US has done is just straight up declassified history. So I’m sorry if I’m a little skeptical about what the empire that’s made it it’s business to deny self-determination to countries around the world has to say about those countries.

As for Russia, I’m not specifically a supporter. Ever since the USSR collapsed they’ve been another capitalist, imperialist country. But in terms of scale they’re just not even remotely comparable to the US. They are at worst a regional power and outside of nukes can’t really threaten the US on the global stage. So when the US war machine starts saber rattling about them, I know what it’s for because I’ve seen it a million times before. We always need an external enemy to justify the massive amount of money we spend on the military and all of the capitalists who profit from it. Even if I think it would be good if someone in the region pushed back against Russian aggression, I think feeding the beast that is the US military industrial complex is a net negative for the world. Not that I really have any say in it. I can’t remember the last time my congressperson or senator asked if I wanted to give another couple billion dollars to their friends in the “defense” industry. And then of course there was all the hysteria about Russian interference in our elections from the Democrats. I don’t even care if they’re right or wrong. That’s besides the point. The function of the claims is what is more valuable to look at: The implication of “Russia is subverting our democracy by interfering in our elections.” is “We had a previously uncorrupted democracy before the Russians got involved. Please ignore how our own billionaires have bought out all of our elections.” It’s a way to shore up support for a failing system by externalizing it’s problems.

I just want to live in a world where we can all live dignified lives. US capitalists are the current greatest obstacle to that dream. I’d rather have imperfect allies against that than throw my lot in with the “Endless war, exploitation, and ecological collapse” team.

This post got brigaded; you know, that thing that the very same people accuse us of 📽

https://sh.itjust.works/post/44029753

Some of them even broke out their alt accounts, which they use exclusively for vote-spamming. One of them has a two year old account that’s never made a single post or comment. We ban those.

Because there is an important community of tankies on Lemmy, and admins of some instances are known to delete what they don’t like

Given the political leanings of Lemmy’s lead developers, and relatedly the whole reason why Lemmy started development in the first place, it should not be surprising to anyone that many Lemmy users have since the very beginning of Lemmy’s existence had stances that could be called, in a word, “pro-Russia” or “pro-China”.

The problem arises when people who don’t hold these views look at them only through their own myopic biases, where, rather than genuinely interrogating why people might hold these attitudes, they instead more readily believe that a social media platform that most people have never even heard of is actually crawling with paid actors trying to influence public opinion.

No, to understand my own views on Russia, you need to understand my views on Atlanticism; to understand my views on Atlanticism, you need to understand my views on class, among other things. None of that comes across clearly in a one-liner or a four-panel meme. I’m sure I could discuss it in a more fitting space provided I’m not too drained of energy from having stayed up until five in the morning for the umpteenth time.

“Was I brainwashed by Western propaganda?”

“No, only shithole commie countries like China have propaganda”

Lately? That subculture where they believe everyone but the West are the good guys and working together has always been here. The devs are involved.

A little follow up: Why don’t you live in China or Russia if life is so bleak in the western countries?

Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.

The US has big problems with human rights, that start with zionist first rule, and needing misery and oligarchist pillaging to make Americans have bigger problems than warmongering, Israel supremacy, directly corrupt and rigged elections, or “well first they are comming for the others”, and I still have bigger problems.

The NATO colonies are even far worse. Democracy means rule by those allowed by CIA, with population programmed with CIA values. The CIA programming, and total capture of politicians, means normalizing the real enemy to the NATO colonies as a permanent friend and master. The only valid elections in entire world are those approved by CIA values. Never any need for evidence of invalidity, you just take State Department/Elon Musk view that “we will coup whoever we want to coup”.

Our countries dress pure corruption as freedom. While freedom seems awesome, the freedom to corrupt, lie, propagandize you into oppression demonic evil diminishment of nations labelled less free, and you internalize those wars as a supremacist right instead of the theft of your prosperity simply makes the corruption of democracy too powerful relative to your critical thinking, attention and distractions from your oppression.

Without CIA influence over a country, it can hope to govern itself in national interest instead of CIA allied oligarchy. Russia and China are mostly successful at this. Freedom is awesome, but the powerful’s freedom to corrupt will always result in greater overall corruption, oppression, and oligarchism Normalizing CIA involvement in your media and democracy means your nation is doomed, and lemmy defending demonic evil corruption is the direct result of a lifetime of propaganda.

Liquid democracy is easily available with current technology. Already substantially implemented in crypto currency tokens. It’s the only real democracy. That people each have an equal share in their country’s government, and its revenue/left over revenue, is distributed as a dividend, means making sure there is a lot of left over revenue instead of corruption.

China has human rights. E.G. Trans people get gender affirming healthcare, jobs, food, and housing. Something that the U.S. does not guarantee and is actively trying to ban transgender affirming care. One of the most famous people in China is Jin Xing a trans woman. The Chinese government does not restrict transgender people in the same way that the UK and the U.S. does. Largely it is social stigma that remains in China, which will and has been changing over time.

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Ml was always pro china pro russia nothing new. I am more worried about the rise of zionism apologists