I have come across a lot’s of people like these. like 99% of them. Sometimes it makes me think twice if what i am saying is wrong? What’s wrong with them. Is it so hard to swallow your pride and acknowledge that the other person is speaking facts? When they come to know they are wrong they proceed to insult/make fun of others to save their ass. Just why?
I suppose the positions you are describing are not reached by reasoning, rather by being part of a group, religion or ideology. In those cases it’s quite clear that they can’t give up the position unless they weaken their ties to that group/religion/ideology, or abandon it entirely.
Some times in their life people are open to big changes, but most of the time not.
It depends. Some people will relentlessly mock you for being wrong, no matter how you handle it. At work I have no problem admitting I messed up something, there’s no point and always it’s better to just fix it, right?
But with my ex, he was just dead judgemental. Might as well double down if I wasn’t sure since my accuracy rate was higher than his.
With husband I can just say I don’t know and it’s fine. On the occasion I send him something not factual I do send correction there is no penalty, for lack of a better word.
Best thing my daddy taught me; no matter how confident you are, you could always be wrong. Brains are just unreliable sometimes. Sky is blue? Could be wrong. You’re N years old? Probably… but you could be wrong.
Accepting this allows one to improve. Best we can do is recognize this, and try our best to minimize how often we’re wrong.
This has allowed me to withhold confidence in many situations. Not in deference, but in thoughtful acceptance that I truly might be wrong.
Best dad ever.
That really warms my heart to hear. I’m trying to be one of the good dads.
Just today my 9 year old and I had a conversation about how I’m always the first to step up and admit when I make a mistake, and communicate what I did or will do to fix it, where I have colleagues who will try to hide their mistakes and front like they never ever make them. Going so far as lying to clients, bosses, and coworkers all the way.
The problem with this is the quiet nihilism baked into it, which is the same reason so many people believe that widely supported science could be wrong.
In the absolute sense, it is true. Though things like “the sky is blue” is more about linguistics, but for a layperson it’s kind of inconsequential either way. While there is a small possibility that scientific consensus could be wrong, there is orders of magnitude bigger chance that unwarranted skepticism is dangerous. Reality does exist, regardless of how much epistemology you choose to wave away.I don’t think so, and he and I have discussed this in epistemological terms several times over the years. “Sky is blue” example was probably bad as would have been “earth is round” etc. The point isn’t that anything can be wrong, though strictly speaking, I guess it can. What we mean is precisely that our minds have the ability to mislead us and powerfully so. But part of the drive to minimize that is to understand the value of consensus in both scientific communities and wider communities.
To have the best ratio of things about which were correct vs incorrect, being confident in things like the outcome of refereed science is helpful.
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When I feel like I am getting dragged into an argument on the internet I try to remember that when two people argue at least 50% of them are wrong.
Not necessarily. Both people can be correct, but arguing just to “win”. Both people can also be wrong.
The answer is 1: they’re stubborn, but more importantly 2: it’s because the human brainly is wired to hate conflicting ideas. Quite literally, when a belief or idea of yours in countered, your brain tells you “your feeling pain and in danger”, and this applies to every person, though some people feel it more strongly than others.
I wouldn’t know, because I’ve never been wrong.
Me neither. OP is obviously an idiot.
Lol
OP is obviously wrong themselves and refuses to accept it.
Me neither. I once thought I was wrong but it turns out I was mistaken.
Same here. I don’t call myself a truth seeker because I already know the truth, I call myself a truth seeker because I’m a truth seeker, but I get a more premeditated/artificial vibe from other people. Is it that people forget that leading thinkers actually embraced change? A lot of political theorists, one might say including Karl Marx, are said to have died with different ideas than when they began.
On the opposite end of things, I also get a disapproving reaction when I mention this. I remember long ago I made a fake game picture of a “Pokémon trainer” version of me declaring defeat, which was supposed to be put at the end of discussions to signify I considered myself schooled, and people reacted accusing me of “excess pomp” to quote one person.
Cognitive dissonance. Lots of people never learn and are never taught how to separate their ego from their knowledge. It doesn’t help that education still relies on punishing mistakes and failure.
Ah, young grasshopper. You are now discovering the ways of the world. It is not enough simply to be right; one must be cool about it, too. Which unfortunately means not getting pissed off that the other person is talking bullshit, because that only makes whoever you’re talking to double down, no matter how pants-on-head their point is.
As to what is wrong with them and why: pride, and embarrassment.
It’s a cliche and also very hard advice to follow, but it’s true that the best thing to do is smile and walk away. Know that they know you know they’re wrong and an idiot, and take comfort in it.
Edit: It’s very hard. I struggle with it every day, including yesterday, and today. Just gotta keep trying, we’ll get it eventually, right?
Online it can become a competitive thing. They still want to “win” the argument even if the light comes on and they realize they have incorrect or incomplete information and the other side has made better arguments with better evidence. I suspect most people fall into this trap at some point in online forums. I definitely have. Guilty as charged.
And not to excuse this behavior, but part of it comes from poor sportsmanship and lack of grace from damned near everyone vis a vis Twitter/X/Facebook/reddit. People who “win” a competition like this are quick to gloat on how they “owned” the other person. Worse than this, trying to be reasonable and open-minded in these spaces often comes across as weakness.
There is a small movement of folks who call for radical empathy. This is where you do your level best to make a good faith effort to fully understand and see the merits of the other side’s arguments even if you don’t agree. That way lies learning and growth.
I don’t see admitting that I’m wrong as a weakness, and I’m not afraid to be the first to make a “concession”. I had a very few arguments on reddit turn into something positive (to the surprise of both parties) because I admitted I had made an incorrect assumption, my reasoning was flawed, or whatever. That made it “okay” for the other individual to admit they had made a mistake, too. Importantly, I didn’t use that as an opportunity to judge, criticize, or attack them. From there, we had a real conversation. It didn’t happen often, but it was great when it did!
Of course, most of the time people made cheap insults or just ignored me, but I was okay with that, too. Sure, it was disappointing, but the whole conversation was right there for anyone who wanted to read it. At least I wasn’t the one who looked like a petty asshole.
I’ve often had the same question as OP. I’ve read and understood the replies in this thread, and some of them are very good. I understand the points being made, but I still don’t get it, ya know? Everybody is wrong sometimes. There’s absolutely no shame in it, and it’s completely unrealistic to pretend that you never are. Plus, by keeping an open mind, being wrong is a fantastic way to learn!
I agree with you that it shouldn’t come across as weakness, and to a mature person it is sign of strength. I should have phrased it better, but my intention was to say that in these online forums many of the ‘spectators’ (who up and down vote, and/or pile on) seem to read nuanced arguments and open-minded thinking as being “weak”.
In other words, there’s often too many points scored for having an aggressive style, nasty sarcasm, insults, etc.
I encounter that all the time especially on public forums like this. This is a quote from an article I found about it online: According to psychologist, speaker and author Guy Winch, most people who consistently refuse to admit they’re wrong do so because they have incredibly fragile egos. They clam up and insist they’re right, demonstrating what experts term “psychological rigidity”, as a defense mechanism.
Also I think that telling someone they are wrong comes across as a criticism about their intellect and they respond defensively by instinct. And, another reason is because people don’t want to believe anything that contradicts their preferred view of the world. So if you “correct” someone they tend to act like you’re attacking them or as too stupid to know what “truth” is.
It’s really a telling distinction because today, most people behave in this defensive way. You don’t see many people willing to concede or say, “wow that’s a different point of view than I have considered, maybe it requires me to spend some thought on why I feel the way I do.” Which is the real value of differing opinions; they help us re-assess and redefine the reasons why we feel the way we do.
It cant help that especially online it seems incredibly rare for someone to point out that you are wrong politely, gently and informatively. Who wants to admit they are wrong to someone who informs you via “OMG you dumb fuck…”
you can get insulted more for it
That’s also true. How can you not be defensive when someone’s reply starts with, “listen here you stupid dumbfuck…” Of course that kind of name calling is going to result in a verbal fight. I don’t know why we can’t just say, “OK I disagree but here’s why, and I hope you’ll appreciate my feedback.” Do we have to resort to calling each other juvenile names? A person isn’t stupid just because they have a controversial point of view.
It’s frustrating, because the people who normally call this out are the people who are most likely to be the ones doing it.
They see people around them fail to think critically, they criticize them for that, and then turn around and never question their own opinions. Because “obviously I am right”.
Not accusing you of it, but I’m sure a lot of people reading this fall into that category. Maybe we all do.
You are right i always try to think in all ways but maybe i am biased? It’s just that during my school life i was never bullied but rather it was my classmates badmouthing my family, me, shaming my body, or insulting me so that the entire class would know etc. The attitude of people just randomly changes if you open up too much to them or be too friendly they don’t respect your boundaries. I just don’t know anymore i talk to people but i never try to get too close to them. I feel like i have changed in just these recent 6 months
Vanity. It’s the Devil’s favourite sin.
You might have something there. I know it works the other way. I was going to post that most of the people I know just come out and say when they know they’ve been wrong. It stops it being a big thing. Admitting you’re wrong or you made a mistake takes all the embarrassment out of it because you now own the situation.
Because most people, when they’re showing someone else that they’re wrong, choose to twist the knife about it. Onlookers add in jeers and snark, making the experience of admitting one was wrong into an unnecessarily-painful shaming event.
People don’t want to admit they’re wrong, because our culture punishes people who admit they were wrong.
In the cases when a person speaks to me as if I am someone capable of admitting I’m wrong, when they treat it like it’s no big deal I just happen to be wrong, I have no trouble admitting it.
For me what works is to show me without much emotion. Like pointing out to someone they’ve got a leaf in their hair or something. If someone comes at me, with proof that I’m wrong, in the manner of a helpful friend pointing out something I can’t see from my vantage point, it really doesn’t hurt.
But when people are calling me evil, stupid, toxic, etc, I just want to dig in my heels. I might see that I’m wrong, and at that point stop arguing my point, but I won’t actually come out and acknowledge it.
There’s like at least five things wrong with what you wrote. You’re part of the problem.
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Irony bro.
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I’m not going to downvote you. But remember that this isn’t Reddit: owners of upvotes and downvotes are visible.
K, but you are literally doing the thing being described–it was an ironic response, and you didn’t realize it, and now you’re just being shitty instead of being like, “oh, my bad, I didn’t realize you were being ironic.”
That’s what’s called dramatic irony. When everyone else realizes the irony except for the person committing the action.
Sometimes an idea is so engraved in their heads that they cannot believe otherwise. Also, some people don’t like to fact-check. They may hear a “fact” which is popular but is totally false, and they will never change their minds about it.
What makes you think you’re the one who’s in the right? You’re another.
Cognitive dissonance. People see themselves as rational and intelligent and anything that counters that is very difficult to accept, so they double down.
