For example workplace harrasment by women towards males like touching or groping being ignored because the victim is male but if it where to happen to a woman by a male the male would be fired
Being held culpable for the brutality some powerful men wield against women because of the “patriarchy”. But also being at fault when women with power exploit or abuse men.
The problem is dominance hierarchy, which expresses itself as patriarchy most of the time.
But not always, and places on this earth exist where a matriarchic hierarchy is similarly asserted.
Obligatorily, no war but class war.
I find it hilarious when people get upset about “no war but class war” as if the sexist and racist systems we experience aren’t just symptoms of a heavily stratified society
If you’re a dude and your older female boss forces you to have sex with her under threat of losing your job, everyone just says “that’s awesome what’s the problem?”.
I had a professor do this to me. Was an adult going to night school, in my last year. She was about ten years older than me and we hit it off in a way I assumed was a professional student/teacher relationship. Had this with other professors as well.
She told me to meet her at a hotel once, thought she was joking and when I didn’t show was furious. Told her it just seemed odd, and she told me she is getting another one this weekend and not to worry about it, but if I didn’t show there would be consequences.
Through a lot of double speak she let me know if it didn’t happen, there would be no graduation for me. Not knowing what to do, bought a pack of condoms and showed up to the hotel. “No, we aren’t using those”. And that was several of my weekends until graduation. There was zero possibility of saying no, and no one to complain to. I can tell the story online and that’s about it.
Holy shit dude. Sorry about the rape. Like, for real. I hope you’re doing ok.
Wait what? You can’t be serious! You did this instead of reporting her to the school?
Yes, I bitched on the internet. It was something that happened almost ten years ago, but it’s not like the school would have ever done anything. Let’s be honest about how this stuff plays out.
I’d have went to the police if the school didn’t do shit or threaten with lawyers. I’d escalate all my options since this shit is not going down with me
didn’t family guy cover this lol
Basically everything women cry about men doing to them. If it is done to a man by women it is ignored or considered not real or never happened or okay and normalized as you put it.
So one thing I noticed is that women betraying their partner has become extremely normalized
- Every “ethical non monogamous” relationship I’ve seen IRL is just a woman pressuring their long term monogamous partner into a situation where she has multiple partners and she’s struggling
- “Monkey Branching”, where a woman starts dropping hints at one guy while still seeing another in hopes of making a seamless transition, is pretty accepted. Emotional affairs are only a thing for men apparently
- While it’s always been acceptable to leave a guy if he can’t “provide” for you, it’s really fucking stupid in the context of modern feminism
- Women who use OLD are often encouraged to have a “roster” of men, who they form a well beyond casual connection to.
- There’s a large number of 30+ year old women breaking up with their long term partners to “find themselves”. I put that in quotations because this usually just involves a ton of casual sex. It’s basically the modern day equivalent of a guy leaving his wife for the secretary
- There are a million different love triangles on TV. They are almost all two guys and a woman who is disrespectful of both. The guys get mad at each other and the women’s behavior is not portrayed as toxic.
- Like 80 percent of holiday movies involve a woman leaving her fiance for a man she just met. This is always seen as romantic, instead of psychotic.
In addition to all that, women are extremely reluctant to criticize other women. This stands even when another woman is behaving in an almost objectively toxic way. I moved post covid. The first year I witnessed a fuckton of toxic behavior, but when I tried to point it out I would get dirty glances from women. The second year there I ended up getting close to other women in those conversations who took it upon themselves to tell me in a smaller setting that they actually agreed with me, but they didn’t want to appear unsupportive.
Whatever the intention there, the mentality enabled a subset of women to be shitty and probably convinced a lot of men that such behavior was something most women were okay with.
It sounds like you haven’t seen any healthy ethnically non-monogamous relationships. That’s a shame. As a part of one, I’ve seen several others as well. It can work, if it’s done for the right reasons and if all partners respect each other.
I know it’s a typo but I’m cracking up at
ethnically non-monogamous
You know it’s funny. I hear a million different accounts of ethnically monogamous relationships that work, but only on the internet where it’s impossible to get the full context.
I almost never meet women like this so maybe it depends on your area. I’d love to be in a woman’s roster but they all want monogamous relationships.
Trust me, you don’t. These women will often want the full emotional availability of a romantic partner from you, with a fraction of both the emotional and physical availability of a partner from them. They generally want a monogamous relationship, just from an emotionally unavailable guy who is very physically attractive. Above all else, they will not be honest about your “ranking”.
Almost any woman who is halfway sane and willing to use online dating tends to get into a relationship in like three months tops. There’s also a decent number of women who are either not looking for a relationship, or would like a relationship but think the apps are super toxic.
However around 10 to 15 percent of the women I meet are very much architects of their own misery. These women are extremely vocal, generally shitty to their potential partners, and can always find more partners due to the nature of OLD. The frustrating part is I haven’t met a single woman who calls out this behavior, and a significant amount that actually reassure these people.
My GF insists that most women are just trying to be supportive, and that they don’t actually approve of the toxic behavior in question. My conversations with closer female friends backs this up. However in my eyes all this does is enable and normalize said behavior. It is also especially frustrating because I’m 100 percent expected to speak out if another guy does something remotely problematic.
These women will often want the full emotional availability of a romantic partner from you, with a fraction of both the emotional and physical availability of a partner from them.
That’s a whole separate issue from women having a roster of men.
Idk about emotional availability. I just want a fuck buddy. If she can’t provide that, she’s gone.
That’s about you being able to enforce your own boundaries, bro
Okay so what do you suggest I do. Cut out every single female friend in my life? Convince my single male friends, as a man in a relationship, to boycott online dating apps?
The only behavior uncommon enough to actually get away from are ethically non monogamous relationships and straight up cheating. That’s 100 percent a red line for me at this point. Everything else is so ubiquitous that I’m basically forced to put up with it if I want to be social.
You just have to worry about being happy in the relationship you’re actually in and not project these feelings of disrespectful non-monogamy on to others.
It’s completely reasonable not to want to live in a society where infidelity or betrayal is normalized.
You’re projecting your own feelings of betrayal onto others. This is a you problem.
I’m had 2 women tell me they had this and saw one on OLD. Of them the 2 got so fed up of men and their bullshit. Started having activity buddies with benefits. One was my cousin so I knew the back story of her asshole husband. Other was a neighbour of a good friend.
Oh this is another thing. I know some women who are perpetually single despite heavy usage of OLD. I used to have a lot of sympathy, but at this point I’ve met many women in relationships via OLD, and the entire process took them six weeks. The second category of women weren’t “higher value” or whatever, they just had more realistic expectations and were less shallow.
Hi, ethical non monogamous person here. My wife did not pressure me into this. The only other couple I know IRL that does this it was also the husband who prompted it.
“women are extremely reluctant to criticize other women”
You should listen to women talk more, they’re extremely enthusiastic to talk shit about each other.
I actually do agree with some of your points though, but on that point, I’ve rarely seen a woman reluctant to talk trash about another woman when given a chance (maybe more in he said/she said situations is what you’re referring to).
I’m 30 years old, and even when I was 15 I wasn’t really friends with the super mean girl gossip types. Throughout my life, I’ve been friends with women who largely identify as feminist and sort of reject those stereotypes.
The problem is that post #metoo it became normalized to take the whole “support women” thing to such an extreme that it enabled toxic behavior. While there were women who tried to pull the whole “it’s sexist to criticize me for making poor life choices” crap, other women would get super offended for them attempting to use feminism in that way.
It’s extremely frustrating that the 19 and 20 year old women I knew in college had better moral compasses than the 25 to 40 year old women I know now. That’s really not supposed to be how it works.
Every single experience you mentioned I cannot relate to at all. It’s really weird to read.
I feel like your example makes claims contrary to reality. Are you saying women never get fired for SH or SA? That’s a claim you can make, of course.
This sounds like you’re arguing in bad faith but I’ll bite. Just replace never with rarely and you got it right
Last time I checked, women were overwhelmingly likely to be granted custody over men, even when the man is a better parent.
No one calls a woman a babysitter or says she’s “giving dad a break” when she’s somewhere with her own children.
I’m about 30. I have friends my age with young (toddler) daughters. They’ve had the police called on them walking with their own child. I’ve had the police called on me watching their daughter for them (these are friends I’ve had for 12 years, I’m basically her uncle).
Men are assumed to be predators if they are near children.
I used to take my twin daughters to the park and we would have daddy day while their mom was at work swing shifts.
We had pizza at the park, and it worked out because changing their diapers on a shitty blanket was easier than fumbling around on a bench since no one thought to put a diaper tray in any of the men’s restrooms.
Had the police called on me a few times. Never did they take the call seriously after showing up. One female officer told a Karen that she is annotating this as a fraud call because anyone with half a brain would realize it’s a dad eating pizza with his kids rather than a kidnapper molesting children in public.
Mom changes a diaper? No one cares.
I think its the larger double standard; men are sex monsters. A woman and a man can’t be friends. A child with a man is in danger.
This is connected to; Intimacy is feminine. Men can only be vulnerable or gentle with their partners or families, if then. Its not universal, obviously, but the callous lover and the distant father are not so uncommon so as to be unrecognizable. Intimacy between men is also considered feminine, unless in the military or team sports.
It’s a world we created as well. Every double standard listed in this thread is a double standard. But it is also something cultivated by the Patriarchy.
Well, for one, the ability to freely talk about issues specific to their gender without judgement by ~20% of the population
We had to shutter !twoxchromosomes@slrpnk.net because of persistent and vocal judgement by a large population of Lemmy users, many from Lemmy.World. So no, talking about issues specific to their gender is definitely not a double standard where men get the short end of the stick.
This is why you get judged. Because you so nakedly put on display how much ignorance and little empathy you have for women’s issues.
!mensliberation@lemmy.ca exists specifically for men who understand their issues in society are intersectional with women’s issues, and that solving them requires uniting to end patriarchy. Any discussion outside of that framing deserves the assumption that it’s a misogynist men’s pity party.
Why is it okay for twoX to be devoted to women’s issues and actively discourage comparing them to men’s issues, but men can’t have an analogous space?
Fwiw, if your twoX was different from previous similarly-named communities then I am sorry it closed.
I think you misunderstood me. I do think men should have an analogous space. I support !mensliberation@lemmy.ca 100%.
If you didn’t misunderstand me, men don’t need a space specifically for comparing their issues negatively against women’s issues. That space is everywhere and anywhere, as evidenced by this discussion occurring in !asklemmy@lemmy.world and collecting overwhelmingly positive upvotes.
You’re from twoX. You hate men unconditionally
Your comments here are an example of double standard.
You are asking for men issues to stay in groups specific to that issue. Anyone who did the same for questions about women would be called a misogynist.
Wow, you’re really reaching there. I’m asking you to stop blaming women for men’s problems. There’s a group of people who aren’t doing that, and if you don’t want to be called a misogynist, follow the example of that group.
I’m asking you to stop blaming women for men’s problems.
And yet you’re the exact type of person to blame men for women’s issues lol
Your mental gymnastics are funny
The incels are out in force.
Ask them if they’re also supportive of White Pride and the KKK. Or if they’d endorse a “White Lives Matter” movement.
- If they aren’t, then it reveals their cognitive dissonance.
- If they are, then while they may be consistent, it also reveals they’re bigots and exposes the fallacious thinking.
Maybe then the cognitive dissonance will be obvious.
deleted by creator
Will you stop blaming men for women’s problems?
Nah, this is textbook double standards.
You are part of the problem that is stopping true equality. If men have everywhere to work through issues so you need a special place to do it, how does that end. You forever stay locked in that safe space because men own the public forum? Or do you try to fight for your spot in the public forum, attacking the only place you allowed men to work through issues? Or do you want a place in the public forum and your own space?
So by your own logic women have their own communities and the general forum is for men, because of this post. So should women be told not to discuss their issues in general forums like Ask Lemmy and stick to their own communities? I mean these are for men right? Seems messed up to me.
Why not just let everyone have a seat at every table? Be truly open and equal, instead of men deciding what women can have and women deciding what men can have. It’s not a hard concept.
It’s people like you that make the divide bigger every time you fight for “equality”.
Please go back to Reddit. Seems like a much better place for misandrists. We’re trying to build a healthy community here
Men’s Lib on lemmy is an explicitly feminist space, and all the men there are in the pathetic friendzone white knight “women can do no wrong” space.
I haven’t checked it out myself but its ridiculous to think women can’t do anything that plays into traditional gender roles that is used to put down men (like men shouldn’t share their feeling for example)
According to mens lib, that doesn’t happen and if you keep insisting it does they’ll ban you
You got some examples of this or just based on vibes?
You can look yourself if you like. Everything in there is all “feminism is awesome” and “men should be more like women”.
How do you define feminism because I wouldn’t call feminists “pathetic friend zone white knight ‘women can do no wrong’” types.
It’s not a causal thing. I’m saying both a and b are true, not that b is true because of a.
I was also confused by the amount of downvotes
Dress code at work. I work in investment banking. On a hot summer day I have to wear smart shoes, black socks, long trousers, long sleeved shirt. Women can wear whatever. It’s fucking horrible
It wasn’t always this way. When I first started working in the early 70s, women weren’t allowed to wear trousers at work. Or have bare legs, even in summer. Women called bullshit, and the rule was relaxed in most places to allow us to wear trouser suits. But as late as the mid-80s I was chastised for wearing trousers at work. I had to point out that the then prime minister, a woman, wore trousers at work!
If you want the dress code to change, then lobby for it to change. I honestly feel sorry for men locked into their own notions of what they’re “allowed” to wear. I remember a friend whining enviously about how breezy my summer skirt looked. I suggested he wear a skirt himself. “I can’t! People would think I’m gay.” Sigh.
Also - men used to make an effort! https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5ec9401b929e439dacc2a56a/master/w_1280%2Cc_limit/Piepenbring-Codpiece02.jpg https://www.thecultureconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/404448.jpg
As someone born in 1980 in Poland I was oblivious to women struggles with attire in the not so distant past. Thank you for sharing your perspective. And I love your sense of humor, those baroque outfits are hilarious
Go get the traveler suit from suit supply and some lightweight wool /cotton shirts, NOT the “performance” ones made of plastic. I live in the Deep South and I’m a consultant. This is so much better in the hot summer.
It does not address the problem at all. Attire requirements in big office settings are typically anti-men.
Yea, of course changing the materials of your clothes doesn’t change society as a whole. My point is that I work in an industry with a similar issue and have found a way to be comfortable, using fabrics and construction styles that breathe properly and are built to be cooler, mimicking some of the lightweight stuff that the women wear.
It IS helpful and this isn’t an anti-men thread, it’s an asklemmy about dealing with double standards. To be honest investment bankers work such long hours I’m surprised OP sees the daylight/unairconditioned spaces at any frequency to be able to complain about this
In dating or marriage: If a female partner criticizes on her male’s choice of outfit, it’s totally normal. If a male criticizes the choice of outfit of his female partner… a fight is imminent.
Sounds like an unhealthy relationship to me instead of a double standard but whatever.
The whole question of double standards is in a sense, asking about common unhealthy traits
Both are very common, so it’s easy to confuse them.
I see this all the time and my wife can give to hoots what I wear so I have no realtionship issue, but I see it all the time. Honestly it is a realtionship thing. Anyone can criticize a males outfit without to much blowback. If asked an not in a realtionship with a women a man can criticize a womens outfit minorly. If in a relationship they have to have an especially easy going significant other. Like my wife.
Insane expectations being placed on women around beauty and appearance, and the resulting insecurities that creates, play a big role in this
Men are often expected to swallow their emotions and just “function”, while women are allowed and even encouraged to display them openly
Women absolutely are penalized for showing emotion. Socially between friends there is a lot better support, and that is probably what you are thinking of. In a workplace environment though, there can be serious consequences for expressing anything other than congeniality. If you’re socially withdrawn you’re an ice queen, if you get angry (no matter how justifiable) you’re a bitch or a dragon lady. If you’re stressed and not perfectly composed you’re weak “unable to handle the pressure”. I get that men are subject to the same kind of judgments but there seems to be more leeway.
Men are often expected to swallow
😏
their emotions
😔
I would counter this and say any woman with a career can absolutely not show emotion. They’re expected to behave like men, which are in turn not supposed to show emotion in the workplace. It’s less of a double standard and more of a toxic standard.
Commenter didn’t say work. It’s true in all circumstances.
You recognizing it as true in the work place by understanding women are expected to be like men in the work place. Because men are not expected to show emotions.
Your counter is actually an example.
It’s not that women are “allowed,” it’s more so that women are expected to be emotional because they’re oh such emotional creatures and of course she’s crying.
That’s a funny one because men are celebrated for suppressing emotions and women are penalisd for showing them.
Yeah the patriarchy is really just the ruling class using us to suppress each other.
Hmmm, I think Kyle Rittenhouse and Gus Walz might have a different perspective. One displayed remorse through blubbering “tears” to play-act out of murder charges and one displayed genuine emotion for a successful family member. Both were pilloried for displaying emotion, fake or real.
Magic Eight Ball says: Concentrate and ask again
Which is also funny because that leads directly to a lot of mental problems for these men.
I see a change is this trend, but a lot of damage has already been done and it will take quite a while to recover from this.
Unless that emotion is anger. That’s the one exception.
Yes! 100%.
Its sort of crazy how there’s no real effort to help people develop their emotional intelligence as a kid or beyond. It should be like no later than grade 1 or 2 where people learn about their feelings and setting limits with people.
So many parents gasp at the idea of their child actually having boundaries that are to be respected because muh dominion or they never learned about it themselves and aren’t open to everyone simply being more observant and respectful of them
This is called Social Emotional Learning and is a big thing in the school I teach in, but has big pushback from many conservatives because it talks about respecting people for their differences, even if they are gay or trans or a poc.
There’s a huge discrepancy in how people understand the word respect.
The “blindly follow what I say and override all your reactions to the pain it will probably cost” and hold your tongue/bottle your emotions shit needs to die in a fire. That is blind control, it is very different and it means much more work and negative outcomes for all involved.
Love this, thanks for giving such shape to the form I was getting at
Np. It’s not mine of course, but unfortunately I don’t know what the source is.
One reason we chose the school my kids go to is because they do teach about emotions and friendship and so on.
Thats awesome! Super important stuff for being well and a good person to have around for others
Yeah, it is one of the things I love about the district we are in. They are big on EQ and also very inclusive (my kids are on the spectrum, so I like that they actively teach about inclusion).
In favor of men: when we get angry, people listen. When women get angry, people stop listening.
Against men: men being around children is seen as suspect. Women being around children is seen as healthy.
I had a girlfriend once and i was absolutely mad at her for reasons i don’t remember. She said she would go home. I knew her for about 2 years and she herself said she never even heard me getting loud or angry with anyone. Anyway, after she left for 15 minutes she came back in and started arguing again. I asked her if she could please just leave. But she kept going. I really didn’t know what to do, because i didn’t just want to grab her and throw her out or anything, so i kept telling her to leave. I went to the toilet and hoped that she would be gone by the time i was done peeing. But she didn’t, she came into the bathroom to keep arguing. That’s where i totally flipped and grabbed her arm and threw her out and told her to go home.
I can’t even imagine doing that to a woman. Like just refusing to leave after i yelled at her for 30 minutes and all she said was: just please leave. Following her into the bathroom to keep yelling at her. I would go straight to jail, while she didn’t even really understood that something went wrong.
This happens a lot more than society is willing to admit.
Camera phones are changing this slowly similar with the police and karen issues.
It is now subgenre on youtube. It was weird realizing that some women will just act that way because “wtf is u gonnd do about it, pussy, call the police? Try me!!!”
Dude. I was at an MLB baseball game about a year ago. It was the 6th inning. I walked into the bathroom while play is still going on. I specifically picked that time because it was the other team at bat, and not their best hitters. My logic was “nobody will be in the bathroom, but nothing will happen in the game either! I’m so smart for going to pee now!”
I walk into the bathroom. First thing I see is a row of about 20 urinals, and deadset in the middle is a 5 year old boy with his pants around his ankles. Bare ass on display. No parent in sight.
I walked in, saw that, walked right back out. Like Aberaham Simpson when he walked into the strip club and saw Bart.
I was like noooooooope. I am NOT going to be in that room when the dad comes in. Even if I’m 10 urinals away. I can wait to pee in the 7th inning, and totally abandon my amazing pee stratagy.
Last thing I need is a protective parent walking in, and asking why I’m in the room with a bare assed 5 year old. Even if nothing happened. I’ll just wait an inning.
if?
I would ask where the dad is but if its like butters dad hes likely losing a wrestling match somewhere.
Y’all imagine crazy stories. That shit happenes all the time and nobody cares.
Your country is bizarre 😅 in europe: who the hell cares? Everyone pees.
No, it’s the same way here. People invent these imaginary fears. Same with OC about children in general. Nobody gives a shit or is looking at dads.
Like sure, maybe you hit the jackpot and find the crazy but the vast majority of parents so not give a shit in the states.
The consequences in the US are so severe it’s not worth the risk. Just an accusation can ruin someone’s life.
🙄👌👍
Said as someone who has never had to deal with it
Because it doesn’t happen lol
Fucking bizarre
Domestic violence against men is usually ignored or blamed on the victim.
This comes from my own observations, and might not be a popular take, but men are often encouraged or celebrated for having multiple partners and not using protection.
This attitude puts men(especially young men) at risk for STI’s, some of which can affect fertility even if a course of antibiotics will take care of it. Others don’t have cures yet, or are not as easy to treat like herpes, the different hepatitis strains, HIV, genital warts ect.
This attitude towards sex for men puts their health at risk and their partners.
The amount of times I’ve seen dudes encourage each other to not use condoms is kinda distressing. I don’t think guys are being educated on how a condom should fit and how to find the right size. They shouldn’t be uncomfortable. If they are try a different kind.
Women often have to try different birth control pills until they find one with minimal side effects. Try different condoms until you find the right ones for you. It’s to protect your dick from diseases, not just to stop pregnancy.
Take care of yourselves guys. Your health is important.
I mean maybe its just my circles but I found there was a type of guy that was a small minority who had a lot of partners and the average guy had a few and a goodly amount had trouble having one while women on average had a few. I guess what im saying it to me the average women has more partners than the average guy but like there is an above average area where the men have more than the women and then also guys obsess more over it (and lie). Granted at the extremes the extreme case women is likely going to overtake the extreme case guys.
This is probably 10 years ago that I read it, but I don’t expect that the numbers have changed much: The median number of lifetime partners for men is 4, while the median for women is 7. The median means that half of the group had that many or more, and half had that many or fewer. If every heterosexual encounter by definition has to include a male and a female, the way that that works out is that there’s a subgroup of men who have a partner count way over four.
In short, yeah, that observation checks out in the research. Among men, there are a few Wilt Chamberlains balanced by thousands with only a partner or two. (NB: extreme example for rhetorical purposes)
Regardless of whatever the case may be, men should be encouraged to protect their sexual health.
Women have gynecologists they see to monitor and do preventative care, discuss birth control methods ect.
Men don’t typically see a urologist unless theres an issue, and because of that there are less opportunities for them to ask questions, or be educated about STI’s and ways to protect themselves. Or know the potential long term risks of common STIs or even the symptoms.
Add to that common misconceptions about condoms, user error while using them, and cultural attitudes and men are kinda set up to not use them in way. Men’s health is important. I worry for my nephews who are getting into their early 20’s. I hope what I tried to teach them makes a difference.
Yeah I getcha. I actually always mention to my wife I sorta wish men could have a mens health doctor along with a primary care.
As a guy who’s trying dating again, there’s something that keeps coming up that kinda bugs me: talking to women who just put in the bare minimum of effort, expect me to carry the conversation and make all the first moves.
I don’t give two shits about traditional gender roles and I’m all about subverting them. However, I think if you’re in the same boat but still wanna call yourself a “passenger princess” and expect the guy to do everything, you’re kind of a hypocrite.
I’ve got a theory that women put more effort into dating apps than we think. It’s just spread across so many more people.
Oh yeah, I’ve seen the other side of things through female friends. They generally have the opposite problem as men.
I’d heard about guys doing stupid shit on dating apps like sending unsolicited dick pics or just going straight for sexual stuff and figured it was maybe a “yeah it happens once in a while” kinda thing, because I’d personally never do something like that. But in fact it seems like a large portion of the interactions are just that bad.
So I can understand not putting in a lot of effort initially. Starting with small talk and making sure it’s not a waste of your time. I do the exact same thing.
But even after it feels like I’ve started to establish a rapport with someone, the conversation still can feel incredibly one-sided. It’s like, okay, at this point you’re just kinda being disrespectful. And it happens over and over again.
Drop these conversations, let them go cold. This person clearly has no affinity with you or doesn’t value you. Move on.
Yes, thank you, I never would have figured that out without your brilliant insight.
Unfortunately, because of the aforementioned probationary period at the start of any conversation, it can take some time before it becomes clear that the other person just isn’t that interested.
Can I still be annoyed at my time and effort being wasted? Or is it just my fault for being a man on a dating app?
I mean, I think alittle? Not because of the reasons you think, though, and it’s not really ‘your fault’. More of a pitfall that most people fall into.
TLDR: ditch the apps and try to get out into more social situations through clubs and sports. The ‘right one’ will come along when you are more socially able an mm you’ll likely make friends along the way (genuine friends are WAY more important for staying sane).
So, tinder specifically objectifies and compresses you into a blurb and some photos - it basically cans you for mass consumption. When you finally get ‘bought’, you only get a chat box to communicate unless you actually exchange contacts, and the whole thing’s kind of terrible in general because of that. I’ve tried bumble and it’s pretty much a similar thing.
There’s this thing sometimes called the ‘predator/prey relationship model’ by feminists, and dating apps explicitly reinforce this model, with the only minor change being that bumble required the woman to open the interaction. The predator/prey relationship makes it so that in our society, dudes are expected to go out, find a random woman they fancy, and ‘pounce’ them, essentially. Originally, this was quite literal if you have heard some stories of relationships starting in the 40s and 50s where a couple got together because the guy was just constantly unrelenting. This has shifted to being more egalitarian and consensual but still requires the guy to basically peacock to gain the woman’s approval. Once it officially becomes a relationship, the woman is expected to be submissive while the man is expected to be dominant. It’s a pretty old-fashioned relationship style that still affects modern dating today. Some folks even still subscribe to it.
The better model that I think is more natural is to just go out and find new friends and groups I can participate in. This way, anyone you might date sees you in more context. You get more practice being social, which can be helpful in actually getting someone to become attracted to you, at which point they might actually start putting in effort.
No wonder. Good luck
Morta is trying to fix your problem. Stop resisting and stop being a baby! /s
This one so absolutely fucking much, holy shit. After a year of dating apps and literally only getting one actual conversation (that didn’t go anywhere, but they were very nice) I’ve pretty much just said fuck it, I do well enough being a hermit I don’t need to be dating.
Frankly a lot less stress.
Same, I am bi, and that is the reason I stopped trying to date women, or anyone who behaves like that for good measure, because some guys try to pull that same stunt.
I want a partner who is as interested and as into dating me as I am into dating them, someone who puts the time in and makes an effort, makes me and my time feel valued, and is also willing to to invest themselves and their time on me, and I don’t know if I was just unlucky, but I never found a woman who was into that. But then again, I pretty much only dated teens and women in their early 20s, as I liked dating people on my own age group and it was at those ages that I was actively dating women.
But from an outsider’s perspective, now on my late 30s, the straight dating market looks awful, I think I’ll stick with men.
I keep hearing horror stories on lesbian dating market, males seems to be doing fine and only group getting along lol
also, all these theories on domestic abuse but don’t lesbians have the highest rates of abuse?
They do, according to the studies I have read. And unlike a lot of studies, that default to male violence in straight cases of domestic violence, a lot of the lesbic cases seem to be tagged as mutual violence.
Don’t know if it is bias on the measuring bodies, since a lot of people claim female on male violence is not a thing, and that the moment a man strikes a woman, no matter the circumstances, it is male on female. Including a case I witnessed, where a female family member attacked her boyfriend with a knife, he disarmed her and since he bruised her while doing so, he was removed from the house and lost custody of his own daughter.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10751048/
This study found no significant differences in victimization types between same-sex and opposite-sex intimate partner violence for females, and no differences in physical and sexual abuse for males. Small sample sizes might have affected these findings.
This kind of thing drives me mad.
If we both like each other, why don’t we communicate like adults instead of playing some stupid game?
Exactly.
Well, then there’s another stupid game… “Hey hon’ do I look fat in these jeans?”
“Positively rotund. How’d you even fit through the door to get in here? I’m amazed your shins haven’t given out under the strain.”
Push those “”““tests””“” right back down their throats with a second hand toilet plunger.
if we both like each other
I think the number of women* who are looking for a man to spend time with because she enjoys his personality are outnumbered by women who like the attention they get when they post a picture of the meal her date paid for to Instagram.
*here defined as “adult female humans somewhere between the age of majority and menopause existing in the present day found in the Western, English-speaking world” for those of you who want to so helpfully remind me that women in South Sudan or Mongolia that aren’t like that.
I don’t see much problem with this. It’s one thing to advocate for everyone having greater freedoms to form non-heteronormative-style relationships, and an entire other thing to necessarily want that for yourself. That’s what Feminism is about after all, a broadening of accepted lifestyles and freedoms - not necessarily a complete shift to a paradigm that prohibits the previous one. In this kind of case, it just sounds like you are discovering up front that you two are not seeking the same type of relationship, which is good to find out early.
It’s kind of like advocating for a bike lane in your city despite you not biking and having no interest in biking. I don’t think you’re a hypocrite for not using freedoms you advocate for.
Just want to let you know that you aren’t alone. I have talked to a number of women who advocate for things like DEI and acceptance (which is something I also believe quite strongly in) but often default to preferring more traditional gender norms in dating. When pressed on the issue (not like I’m interrogating them just through normal conversations and getting to know them) they will inevitably say that it is ultimately “just their preference”.
What I find so odd about that “preference” is if a man behaves in accordance with the traditional/societal gender norms in the beginning of the courting process, why is it surprising that they do the same thing later in the relationship when it comes to sharing emotional labor or various types of household chores?
I know the below is taking it to a bit of an extreme example but that behavior and “preference” often reminds me the sentiment “the only moral abortion is my abortion”. Like I get it, there are a lot of shitty people out there who have no interest in putting in the effort, and they absolutely are not worth the time and effort, but when you do meet someone who is willing to put in that effort, it isn’t really fair to treat them like all those other people.
Yeah and then you got the “marrying kind” type of guys who cheat on their wife cause shes “frigid”
Men are in a kind of catch-22. Women say they want one thing but their actions usually say they want the opposite.
Not really. It’s quite easy to understand. They generally want feminism when it benefits them, but traditional gender roles when it benefits them.
I don’t blame them though, I also want things that benefit them. But it’s a dick move to do it with feminism, which is supposed to mean equality.
It’s not equality when they can pick and choose when to be equal.
Isn’t egalitarianism the term for equality?
NGL I searched the term. Egalitarianism is about all people.
Feminism is only about eliminating the unfair inequalities between men and women.
