For example workplace harrasment by women towards males like touching or groping being ignored because the victim is male but if it where to happen to a woman by a male the male would be fired

  • @Dasus@lemmy.world
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    91 year ago

    The shit older women said (and did) to me when I drove a cab in my twenties.

    Also, not wanting to fuck someone, even if they’re somewhat attractive.

  • @spacecadet@lemm.ee
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    941 year ago

    One that constantly comes up between me and my partner is fashion related. She is very liberal but when it comes to our relationship is the exact opposite. She buys everything from lacy thongs and g-strings to boy shorts underwear. She hates that I as a man wear thong and bikini underwear, too. I’m athletic, lift and workout 5 days a week, and get hot very easily. I like the support and minimalism of thongs for that, but she always buys me boxers which are uncomfortable and bunch up and all the extra fabric and cotton makes me hot and sweaty and chafe. When I bring up she wears thongs just do she doesn’t have panty lines and I wear them for comfort and support she doesn’t understand. She also mentioned she thinks guys wearing thongs is weird but then says it’s so “brave” when gay guys do it during pride. I once called her out and homophobic for assuming it’s a fetishized gay guys only thing and she got mad, but am I wrong?

      • @spacecadet@lemm.ee
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        21 year ago

        I am not always wearing thongs, and I really like MeUndies thongs and I have a lot of their trunks, too. She calls the trunks “my booty shorts” jokingly. She doesn’t mind when I wear those.

    • @Jayb151@lemmy.world
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      91 year ago

      Dude, I know this is a weird question, but where do you buy your underwear. I’ve been wanting to try it out, but I can’t really find a site that doesn’t fetishize thong underwear for men.

      Btw, I think there’s nothing wrong with wearing something you’re comfortable in.

      • @spacecadet@lemm.ee
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        71 year ago

        MeUndies. They have tons of colors, great return policy if you don’t like them or they don’t fit, and they don’t fetishize it. I know what you are saying, when I first started looking they had a very obvious “target demographic” that I’m not a part of. I just wanted a solid, normal, comfortable man thong. Before that, jockey had great men’s thongs and some women’s thongs that definitely fit men and don’t look feminine. I’m hoping that Meundies starts to do more fabric types in men’s thongs, women get all the light and silky fabrics….

    • @ramsgrl909@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Oh no! My husband just started wearing thongy underwear and I’m enjoying the view ;)

      Also he is really enjoying them as well, guess they feel better than boxers

    • @protist@mander.xyz
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      401 year ago

      You’re definitely not wrong. If she’s willing to undermine or criticize your clothes preference after you’ve already told her why you like them and you don’t want to change, what else is she willing to undermine?

      • @spacecadet@lemm.ee
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        131 year ago

        I feel very comfortable sharing with her, especially since I grew up in an extremely conservative area of the south and she grew up in an upper class suburb in the Bay Area in California. She knows when I’m feeling “off” because it manifests in body language she picks up on and tries to get me to share (I.e. when I’m having work or family problems) but it’s been hard to break that “men don’t share their feelings” attitude I was raised with. She actually buys me clothing that is vibrant and traditionally female brands (lulu, Madewell, etc…). That’s why I was kind of taken aback when I first started wearing my thongs around her and she was like “are those women’s panties?” Because they were brightly colored pink pair of a male thong from MeUndies. I explained they are the comfortable for support when engaging in cardio and lifting and she was like, “I don’t like seeing you in them”.

        In the same way I grew up in a very conservative area and this is a unique way to express myself and enjoy feeling sexy, I think she grew up in the opposite and that’s why she was attracted to stoic, lumbering me. She has jokingly called me a “brute” in a loving way and says she is fascinated how I just “power through” manual labor for 12 hours at a time on the weekend doing projects and lifting heavy stuff around our house. I think she just has a biological urge to see me as that big protector.

        Also, she always talks about how she doesn’t like muscle on guys, but since we have been together I have put on a lot of muscle and the more I put on the more she is constantly squeezing my arms and shoulders and putting her head on my chest… but she has also noticed that other women will feel my arms in public and I think she gets a little jealous

    • @SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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      131 year ago

      She chooses for image. She’s sympathetic. But, she’s no empathy for you valuing different facets in your choice. Is it just underwear or does this extend to more, possibly all choices?

      • @spacecadet@lemm.ee
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        181 year ago

        We agree on the overwhelming majority of important things (politics, cleanliness, nutrition, children) but obviously we have different tastes within those areas, I love cashews, she hates them, I prefer lifting weights, she prefers Pilates, etc… This is just the one weird thing we get hung up on.

        • @SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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          01 year ago

          She obviously likes the way you look in boxers. Maybe ask her to buy you some Saxx brand boxers: synthetic stretchy, great support, durable. Two pairs got me about 1k trail miles. I’ve since replaced everything.

          • @Monument@lemmy.sdf.org
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            21 year ago

            How does their synthetic hold up?

            I’ve always bought their cotton boxer briefs and it seems that in recent years the durability has gone down. They used to last a few years a pair, but new pairs start to look baggy and sad after about 4-6 months. (They’re honestly off the list of products I buy right now.)

            • @SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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              21 year ago

              Mine are all a couple years old. I’d expect the same enshitification across the product line.

              I find my clothing by asking ultralight hikers, runners, and bicyclists.

        • sunzu2
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          -21 year ago

          We agree on the overwhelming majority of important things (politics, cleanliness, nutrition, children)

          interesting first choice 🤡

        • @treefrog@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          This is more like her insisting you not eat cashews, because she hates cashews.

          Only in this case her hate is homophobic/transphobic. Women can wear boy stuff. And men can, in theory, wear ‘queer’ stuff. As long as it’s not her partner doing it.

            • @spacecadet@lemm.ee
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              31 year ago

              Yeah, it’s very strange. They talk about masculinity like it’s a negative trait but then that’s all they want in a relationship. Nature > Nurture

                • @spacecadet@lemm.ee
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                  11 year ago

                  What’s crazy is I started “squaring up” on my spouse in the same way I would before fighting someone, I.e. standing upright, puffing out chest, flexing my lats out and staring down at her just for fun sometimes and I can tell in instant change in her body language where she gets turned on. I also started doing this with female friends randomly that I have no interest in, but just testing out how they respond. I would say like 70% of the time they end up touching you in some way, not sexually but like moving to my side and grabbing my arm and leaning into me. I’m surprised I don’t hear about this more. I think it’s a biological response.

    • @x4740N@lemm.eeOP
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      121 year ago

      Also to add on to this

      Mothers showing pictures of their naked boys as babies, totally fine

      Father’s showing images of their naked daughters as babies, people go wtf

      I wish people didn’t show those images at all or even take them reguardless of gender

    • _NoName_
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      11 year ago

      My understanding is that infant labiaplasty and other female genital cosmetic surgeries are pretty common as well in western countries. Luckily there is a growing protest to these practices on ethical grounds, since they’re all medically unnecessary surgeries performed on babies that can’t consent to it.

      This journal publication seems to put it into perspective decently. It also points out some of the racist hypocrasy surrounding it, like how we classify these actions being done by non-western cultures as ‘mutilation’ which is unlawful, while classifying ones aligned with our own culture as ‘cosmetic’ and still allow them.

  • @corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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    531 year ago

    ITT about male victims of sexism-based double-standard, we see

    • stories of female victims
    • downvoting stories of male victims
    • the top-voted post about how men can’t speak up for fear of being shouted down

    Wow, Lemmy. Be better than Reddit.

    • Makhno
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      41 year ago

      This thread and ones like it just prove the point

    • Ephera
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      131 year ago

      That is exactly why I’m downvoting many of the comments here. Not personal stories, but all the “men have it so much worse” comments, which are ultimately just toxic against women.

      Because holy fuck, that was exactly Reddit, and I do not want this place to end up the same. We already have a massive imbalance between the genders and if we men start discrediting women, they’re most fucking definitely not going to show up here.

      I do want men to be able to speak about abuse stories. That is where our patriarchical society kills men, in that it does not allow us to show weakness. But it cannot fucking devolve into a us vs. them discussion, which this whole question is locked and loaded towards. That is not helpful to anyone.

  • @mods_mum@lemmy.today
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    41 year ago

    Dress code at work. I work in investment banking. On a hot summer day I have to wear smart shoes, black socks, long trousers, long sleeved shirt. Women can wear whatever. It’s fucking horrible

    • @ezmac@lemmy.world
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      21 year ago

      Go get the traveler suit from suit supply and some lightweight wool /cotton shirts, NOT the “performance” ones made of plastic. I live in the Deep South and I’m a consultant. This is so much better in the hot summer.

      • @mods_mum@lemmy.today
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        -21 year ago

        It does not address the problem at all. Attire requirements in big office settings are typically anti-men.

        • @ezmac@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Yea, of course changing the materials of your clothes doesn’t change society as a whole. My point is that I work in an industry with a similar issue and have found a way to be comfortable, using fabrics and construction styles that breathe properly and are built to be cooler, mimicking some of the lightweight stuff that the women wear.

          It IS helpful and this isn’t an anti-men thread, it’s an asklemmy about dealing with double standards. To be honest investment bankers work such long hours I’m surprised OP sees the daylight/unairconditioned spaces at any frequency to be able to complain about this

    • MrsDoyle
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      11 year ago

      It wasn’t always this way. When I first started working in the early 70s, women weren’t allowed to wear trousers at work. Or have bare legs, even in summer. Women called bullshit, and the rule was relaxed in most places to allow us to wear trouser suits. But as late as the mid-80s I was chastised for wearing trousers at work. I had to point out that the then prime minister, a woman, wore trousers at work!

      If you want the dress code to change, then lobby for it to change. I honestly feel sorry for men locked into their own notions of what they’re “allowed” to wear. I remember a friend whining enviously about how breezy my summer skirt looked. I suggested he wear a skirt himself. “I can’t! People would think I’m gay.” Sigh.

      Also - men used to make an effort! https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5ec9401b929e439dacc2a56a/master/w_1280%2Cc_limit/Piepenbring-Codpiece02.jpg https://www.thecultureconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/404448.jpg

      • @mods_mum@lemmy.today
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        01 year ago

        As someone born in 1980 in Poland I was oblivious to women struggles with attire in the not so distant past. Thank you for sharing your perspective. And I love your sense of humor, those baroque outfits are hilarious

  • @Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    doing oppositely gendered activities.

    my girlfriend can change the oil in her car and lifts weights?

    cool. healthy.

    i can sew my own clothes and bake?

    Weird. Creepy.

      • unalivejoy
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        81 year ago

        You gotta learn to sew when you’re constantly ripping your shirt with each flex.

      • @eyeon@lemmy.world
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        11 year ago

        even just knowing enough to not consider clothes ruined when a button pops out or a tear forms would be nice

      • @ouRKaoS@lemmy.today
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        131 year ago

        “Girly” things are ok as a career, but not a hobby.

        If you’re a professional Tailor, it’s a respectable job that people seek you out for, but if you just like to sew…

        Chefs are predominantly male, but if you’re a guy that just likes to cook, “what are you, a housewife?”

      • @Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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        71 year ago

        For sure, and I appreciate that.

        They’re great skills, and if you watch a couple YouTube videos on making your own clothes, you’ll be shocked at how simple it is and how little time it takes.

        I feel very comfortable sewing and baking, this is just the best answers I have for the question.

      • @aaaaace@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        31 year ago

        You can find a used machine to practice with and start by fixing and altering.

        Local indy sewing shops that I’ve encountered have been happy to advise and some have open sewing days.

        I fix my outdoors gear and clothes routinely, often with hand-stitching, just takes practice.

          • @rekabis@lemmy.ca
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            1 year ago

            I have a massive wingspan:weight ratio, so I always have to choose between sleeves being long enough on a shirt that’s 4x too big, or sleeves that end 3 inches short on a shirt that mostly fits.

            So you look like you just sauntered out of Auschwitz?

            <rant>

            You’re the reason why most shirts don’t fit me. I hate “slim fit” shirts, and anything fashionable is so slim fit you would have trouble fitting it over a skeleton or a 1,000-year-old Sahara-desiccated corpse. Why is your kind so common that the marketplace gets flooded with clothing that can only fit a famine victim?

            And I’m not obese in the least. I just have a 50-inch chest with a 36-inch waist. I have pecs, not some wafer-thin slabs of barely-there muscle that would have trouble bench-pressing an onion scape.

            About the only thing that fits me are 2XL tops that are regular or relaxed fit. Even jackets have gotten into the “reverse-vanity-sizing” madness that has recently beset Canada, with many “size 50” suit jackets really being a size 46 or even a 44.

            </rant>

            .

    • @SwearingRobin@lemmy.world
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      101 year ago

      I don’t think that’s exactly true. As a woman I’ve had situations where I was questioned even when I knew exactly what I was talking about just because it was a traditionally male activity.

      Yes, I know what type of battery I want for my car. Yes, I know it’s uncommon, I checked if you had it in your website before I came here. Yes, I know how to install it and I don’t want to pay you to do it. Shut up and take my money so I can leave.

      I have several stories like this. In home renovation stores men that work there are always super opinionated on the problem that I’m trying to solve. I’m just looking for the supplies I want, I didn’t ask for opinions.

      It doesn’t help that I’m small and look young, but still they should mind their own business.

      • @Clent@lemmy.world
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        21 year ago

        Are you sure those home renovation workers weren’t trying to make conversation, might even being bragging about their own project attempts and you being a women had nothing to do with how they interact with any other customer?

        • @SwearingRobin@lemmy.world
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          31 year ago

          I can never be sure, I’m not inside their heads, but I don’t remember ever seeing this behavior directed at my husband or dad when tagging along with them in similar situations.

      • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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        81 year ago

        No, it is. I had women joke and say “what are you, gay?”, then laugh when they find out I can sew. Have stitched up many a stuffed animal. The guys ask me where did I learn that?

        “The army”

        Oh, that’s cool.

        • @SwearingRobin@lemmy.world
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          11 year ago

          I agree that men also get flack for doing activities associated with women, my answer to the original comment is disagreeing with the double standard part. I think it’s bad both ways and therefore not a double standard

      • @starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
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        21 year ago

        Probably mostly to do with being a woman, though even if a nerdy looking dude came in they’d probably get similar treatment. Partially just how they expect someone who “knows what they’re doing” to look like (mechanics knowledge = man in jeans)

        • @hydrospanner@lemmy.world
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          31 year ago

          Also, it’s not just targeted at people perceived as “other” in many of these traditionally masculine realms.

          Often, it seems like so many of these men see patronizing and second guessing as the only ways to establish and defend their own credibility on their given subject. It’s not just the “oh it’s a woman/someone who doesn’t look the part…I bet they don’t know what they’re doing” factor, it’s also that they’re a product of the culture that tells them that the most important thing is that they’re perceived as more knowledgeable than anyone else, and that the only way to establish that is to have their own opinions and views on every subject in the field, and then aggressively defend and promote those views while dismissing, undermining, and discouraging any views that conflict with theirs…or the people who hold those views.

          And it’s not just big picture “world view” type stuff. It’s crap like, “which brand makes the best widget in your hobby?”. If they’re a “brand red” guy, they feel the need to not only let everyone know that they like brand red…they have to let everyone know that brand red is the best, and that it’s objective, and that if you prefer brand blue, you’re just a clueless newbie who hasn’t learned yet. If you like brand green, well you’ve just been taken in by their marketing. And if you’re one of those brand orange people, well you know what they say about those people…

    • @almar_quigley@lemmy.world
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      91 year ago

      I sew and bake and no one ever says anything negative about it. It’s usually a topic of conversation. And back in the day when I had been called gay for enjoying baking by some insecure guy or weirdo girl I just laughed it off. Because it was usually after they finished eating a delicious treat I made and brought into the office or something.

    • dustycups
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      101 year ago

      Disagree but upvoting because I’m sure this is true for some.

    • OK there are some “feminine activities” where people would bat an eye but sewing and baking? Lmao I don’t think anyone would care.

      Except if you fuck up making cookies, like me last week 😭

      • @Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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        21 year ago

        haha, woo! those are some hockey pucks!

        i get eyes a-fluttering anytime either is brought up, but it’s good you have faith in your community.

    • @JIMMERZ@lemm.ee
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      341 year ago

      Yeah, I was in Costco buying new cookie sheets and an old lady said it was so nice that I was helping out. Lady, they’re for me, I’m the baker here.

      • Uriel238 [all pronouns]
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        1 year ago

        It took decades before Hasbro Easy Bake Ovens were marketed in the US in Yellow and Black rather than Mattel Barbie™️ Fuchsia Pink (💕) which is still the standard in US department stores. Curiously gender neutral colors started from demand in Sweden and expanded outward.

        In the nineties, Barbie was built like only a select few Playboy Bunnies (Jessica Rabbit’s dimensions are physiologically impossible. A robot, maybe) and Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader action figures were ripped like He-Man (or soon-to-be Governor of California Arnold Schwarzenegger).

        Gender roles are (to me) extremely weird.

    • @Cocodapuf@lemmy.world
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      101 year ago

      As a man, I have never gotten any shit for sewing. But I do give plenty of people shit for not sewing.

      Fix your clothes people, a needle and thread are not that freaking complicated. You don’t need to learn how to use it, just push the needle through the fabric, you’ll figure it out.

      Sure, with practice you can make it prettier, but whatever.

  • @ouRKaoS@lemmy.today
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    721 year ago

    No one calls a woman a babysitter or says she’s “giving dad a break” when she’s somewhere with her own children.

    • @Meltrax@lemmy.world
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      421 year ago

      I’m about 30. I have friends my age with young (toddler) daughters. They’ve had the police called on them walking with their own child. I’ve had the police called on me watching their daughter for them (these are friends I’ve had for 12 years, I’m basically her uncle).

      Men are assumed to be predators if they are near children.

      • @Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyz
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        381 year ago

        I used to take my twin daughters to the park and we would have daddy day while their mom was at work swing shifts.

        We had pizza at the park, and it worked out because changing their diapers on a shitty blanket was easier than fumbling around on a bench since no one thought to put a diaper tray in any of the men’s restrooms.

        Had the police called on me a few times. Never did they take the call seriously after showing up. One female officer told a Karen that she is annotating this as a fraud call because anyone with half a brain would realize it’s a dad eating pizza with his kids rather than a kidnapper molesting children in public.

        Mom changes a diaper? No one cares.

      • @Brutticus@lemm.ee
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        61 year ago

        I think its the larger double standard; men are sex monsters. A woman and a man can’t be friends. A child with a man is in danger.

        This is connected to; Intimacy is feminine. Men can only be vulnerable or gentle with their partners or families, if then. Its not universal, obviously, but the callous lover and the distant father are not so uncommon so as to be unrecognizable. Intimacy between men is also considered feminine, unless in the military or team sports.

        It’s a world we created as well. Every double standard listed in this thread is a double standard. But it is also something cultivated by the Patriarchy.

  • @SeattleRain@lemmy.world
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    431 year ago

    Being held culpable for the brutality some powerful men wield against women because of the “patriarchy”. But also being at fault when women with power exploit or abuse men.

    • Uriel238 [all pronouns]
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      1 year ago

      The problem is dominance hierarchy, which expresses itself as patriarchy most of the time.

      But not always, and places on this earth exist where a matriarchic hierarchy is similarly asserted.

      Obligatorily, no war but class war.

      • @orrk@lemmy.world
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        91 year ago

        I find it hilarious when people get upset about “no war but class war” as if the sexist and racist systems we experience aren’t just symptoms of a heavily stratified society

  • @Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Well, for one, the ability to freely talk about issues specific to their gender without judgement by ~20% of the population

    • Five
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      1 year ago

      We had to shutter !twoxchromosomes@slrpnk.net because of persistent and vocal judgement by a large population of Lemmy users, many from Lemmy.World. So no, talking about issues specific to their gender is definitely not a double standard where men get the short end of the stick.

      This is why you get judged. Because you so nakedly put on display how much ignorance and little empathy you have for women’s issues.

      !mensliberation@lemmy.ca exists specifically for men who understand their issues in society are intersectional with women’s issues, and that solving them requires uniting to end patriarchy. Any discussion outside of that framing deserves the assumption that it’s a misogynist men’s pity party.

      • @mods_mum@lemmy.today
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        21 year ago

        Please go back to Reddit. Seems like a much better place for misandrists. We’re trying to build a healthy community here

      • @Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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        331 year ago

        Why is it okay for twoX to be devoted to women’s issues and actively discourage comparing them to men’s issues, but men can’t have an analogous space?

        Fwiw, if your twoX was different from previous similarly-named communities then I am sorry it closed.

        • Five
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          I think you misunderstood me. I do think men should have an analogous space. I support !mensliberation@lemmy.ca 100%.

          If you didn’t misunderstand me, men don’t need a space specifically for comparing their issues negatively against women’s issues. That space is everywhere and anywhere, as evidenced by this discussion occurring in !asklemmy@lemmy.world and collecting overwhelmingly positive upvotes.

          • @Clent@lemmy.world
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            181 year ago

            Your comments here are an example of double standard.

            You are asking for men issues to stay in groups specific to that issue. Anyone who did the same for questions about women would be called a misogynist.

            • Five
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              -101 year ago

              Wow, you’re really reaching there. I’m asking you to stop blaming women for men’s problems. There’s a group of people who aren’t doing that, and if you don’t want to be called a misogynist, follow the example of that group.

              • Makhno
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                131 year ago

                I’m asking you to stop blaming women for men’s problems.

                And yet you’re the exact type of person to blame men for women’s issues lol

                Your mental gymnastics are funny

              • Lightor
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                Nah, this is textbook double standards.

                You are part of the problem that is stopping true equality. If men have everywhere to work through issues so you need a special place to do it, how does that end. You forever stay locked in that safe space because men own the public forum? Or do you try to fight for your spot in the public forum, attacking the only place you allowed men to work through issues? Or do you want a place in the public forum and your own space?

                So by your own logic women have their own communities and the general forum is for men, because of this post. So should women be told not to discuss their issues in general forums like Ask Lemmy and stick to their own communities? I mean these are for men right? Seems messed up to me.

                Why not just let everyone have a seat at every table? Be truly open and equal, instead of men deciding what women can have and women deciding what men can have. It’s not a hard concept.

                It’s people like you that make the divide bigger every time you fight for “equality”.

              • @lennybird@lemmy.world
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                The incels are out in force.

                Ask them if they’re also supportive of White Pride and the KKK. Or if they’d endorse a “White Lives Matter” movement.

                • If they aren’t, then it reveals their cognitive dissonance.
                • If they are, then while they may be consistent, it also reveals they’re bigots and exposes the fallacious thinking.

                Maybe then the cognitive dissonance will be obvious.

      • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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        121 year ago

        Men’s Lib on lemmy is an explicitly feminist space, and all the men there are in the pathetic friendzone white knight “women can do no wrong” space.

        • JackbyDev
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          61 year ago

          How do you define feminism because I wouldn’t call feminists “pathetic friend zone white knight ‘women can do no wrong’” types.

        • @timestatic@feddit.org
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          11 year ago

          I haven’t checked it out myself but its ridiculous to think women can’t do anything that plays into traditional gender roles that is used to put down men (like men shouldn’t share their feeling for example)

        • sunzu2
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          31 year ago

          You got some examples of this or just based on vibes?

          • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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            01 year ago

            You can look yourself if you like. Everything in there is all “feminism is awesome” and “men should be more like women”.

  • @Technus@lemmy.zip
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    751 year ago

    Here’s another thing that I was just reminded of in this very thread, lmfao:

    Men are expected to accept unsolicited advice at face value when they want to vent, because we’re supposed to be the ones with all the answers, and if a man is complaining about a problem, then he’s obviously just missing the answer.

    This actually blew up my last relationship, right at the beginning of the pandemic, when my girlfriend at the time was stressed from being laid off and we weren’t able to see each other due to the isolation orders.

    She would try to vent to me about her problems, looking for support in a time of emotional vulnerability, and I, an inexperienced idiot just trying to be helpful, would suggest solutions that I thought she hadn’t considered. If you can’t guess exactly how that went, you’ve almost certainly never been in a serious relationship.

    What made it worse is she would then say to stop mansplaining, which made me defensive because I thought she was tacitly accusing me of being intentionally misogynistic when I was honestly just trying to be helpful. At the time, I figured I just needed to adjust my approach a little bit, not completely change course. Unsurprisingly, that didn’t work.

    It was only in hindsight, some time after she had dumped my dumb ass, and I had blocked and deleted her number, that I was complaining to my friends and getting the exact same kind of thing back that I realized, “oh wow, I get it now, that is actually really fucking annoying and invalidating.”

    It was also around this time, while discussing my experiences with friends who have been diagnosed, that I realized that I might have ADHD. So that definitely hadn’t helped.

    In the extremely unlikely event you’re reading this, K, I’m sorry. I figured out what I did wrong, just a little too late.

    • Pandantic [they/them]
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      1 year ago

      I definitely had to have a chat with my SO about letting me vent without problem solving. I still have to remind them from time to time. Some people are just solution-minded like that.

    • @shalafi@lemmy.world
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      211 year ago

      Had a gf way back in the day explain this to me. “When we’re venting we want emotional support. Stop trying to give us solutions.”

      Dated many women in the 25-years since I was given these wise words, seen the truth of that advice over and over. Yet I still struggle to STFU. It’s so prevalent among men, I wonder if we’re not hardwired to go into problem solving mode when confronted with an issue.

      • @Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        I think it’s because we feel that we can find the solution to the problem, it will stop the pain that our partner is feeling at the situation.

        • @kurcatovium@lemm.ee
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          -41 year ago

          Because it is, right? Right?!? When your car brakes makes weird noises you replace them to fix it and stop whining. Why doesn’t this work with women too? /s

            • Captain Aggravated
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              11 year ago

              I mean, if it’s a problem, fix it. If you don’t want it fixed, shut your cake hole.

              • @GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
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                51 year ago

                Holy shit, it’s almost like men and women sometimes have different motivations! Maybe the problem isn’t the event, but how she feels about it. And maybe the solution is to let her get it off her chest instead of suppressing it. I know, us guys generally don’t like to deal with our feelings, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist, or that it wouldn’t be healthier if we did.

                • Captain Aggravated
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                  31 year ago

                  Feelings are shit. And no, I’m not being dismissive, I’m being metaphorical.

                  When you eat, you mash up the food with your mouth and saliva is added and then it gets pushed into your stomach with various glandular juices and it gets squished around into a paste and then pushed through your intestines where it is attacked by yet more enzymes and bacteria, nutrients and fluids are extracted and the unusable brown sludge that gets pushed out as a waste product is what we call “shit.” Who’s hungry?

                  When you perceive stimuli, electromagnetic, mechanical or chemical signals enter your senses, are transduced into action potentials which fire across synapses, signals travel along nerve cells to your brain where the processes of filtering and attending, perception and decoding happens, in a process I don’t think we fully understand yet, these perceptions are compared to memories, recognition, learning or insight occurs and the energy left over from this experience gets pushed out as a waste product that we call “feelings.”

                  If you take a bad shit, if it hurts, if it’s difficult, if it’s messy, it can be an indication that your body or your diet are unhealthy. If it’s too much of a problem for too long it’s time to talk to a healthcare professional because maybe you’ve got a condition. But if everything was fine and then you ate that suspiciously room temperature shrimp cocktail at that non-chain steakhouse 150 miles inland that hasn’t changed its decor since the 1980s, probably that’s the problem.

                  Deal with your bad feelings the same way you deal with a bad shit: troubleshoot, diagnose, take corrective action, return to service, monitor for further issues. Or do what women do and use your acquaintances and/or your Tiktok audience as feelings toilets, I guess. Just dump your shit onto other people to deal with.

                  The overall topic here is gender double standards, right? Well, I don’t get to use people as feelings toilets. So people don’t get to use me as a feelings toilet.

      • @2piradians@lemmy.world
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        31 year ago

        I struggle with this too. I think it’s because it feels so damned nonproductive to not try and figure out how to make things better. Matter of fact, it feels like how I approach people dumping personal problems at work…indifference I suppose. And that’s the last thing I want to show someone I care about. So it weighs me down.

        I’ve taken to asking questions from different angles during the venting, and this seems to be my best strategy. Results are mixed.

        I’ve accepted that I can’t be one of these “there, there” people because I don’t enjoy feeling useless. I care, what’s being said matters to me, but I can’t be myself in the situation. And that feels bad.

      • @Technus@lemmy.zip
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        01 year ago

        Well, kind of the exact opposite of that. I realize that’s meant to be satire, but that kind of attitude is what got me into trouble.

        I left out the exact details for brevity and privacy, but it was a situation where there wasn’t a simple answer. I just didn’t have a good grasp of the concept of active listening.

        I was trying to engage with what she was saying, because she had previously told me that it seemed like I didn’t care about her problems. But I just wasn’t saying the right things.

        In reality, my previous approach had revolved around keeping my mouth shut because then there was no way I could say anything to fuck it up. But then, in large part thanks to my undiagnosed ADHD, I would tune out without realizing it.

        So I engaged in the only way I knew how, by trying to rationalize her experiences when I should have been empathizing with them.

        • @GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          So I engaged in the only way I knew how, by trying to rationalize her experiences when I should have been empathizing with them.

          Ah, ok. I’m essentially the same as the person in the video. I didn’t talk about something unless I want help and the situation fixed. Otherwise, I kept to myself, and I treated others the same. It was a rough young adulthood.

    • Had to learn this the hard way myself.

      Now I literally ask when it isn’t obvious. Do you want support or solutions? It’s rarely the latter but at least we’re both on the same page.

      • @Technus@lemmy.zip
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        -21 year ago

        Here it is, folks, case in fucking point.

        Did I ask, at any point, for opinions on how I should be feeling about any of this? I don’t think so.

    • @iiGxC@slrpnk.net
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      521 year ago

      It’s not entirely on you. Accusing you of mansplaining is not cool, she should’ve just said something like “i’m sharing this because I’m looking for emotional support, not solutions, so please stop trying to solve my problems when I’m just venting”.

      In a sense, how people react to having problems shared with them is a cultural difference, neither is right or wrong but they can be jarring and confusing when you’re used to one culture but interact with a different one. But it’s not fair to just assume the other culture is acting in bad faith

      • @ChlkDstTtr@lemmy.world
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        281 year ago

        With my brother I’ve started asking “are you looking for advice or do you just want someone to vent to?”. I think most people can do better playing both roles.

      • @Technus@lemmy.zip
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        91 year ago

        In all fairness, she was pretty patient with me for a bit, but as I alluded to, I attempted to apply small course corrections when I should have tried a different course entirely. In reality, this was the cumulative effect of multiple different occasions.

        See, my dumb ass didn’t think it was an issue with what I was saying, but how I was saying it. So I figured it was just a matter of trying to be more tactful with my suggestions. Obviously, that wasn’t it.

        Sure, she could have been more mature and introspective about it, but so could I. So it’s kind of a wash.

        I can’t really blame her because of the shit she was going through. There’s a bit more context that I don’t really want to get into on a public forum, but in hindsight her reaction is understandable.

        Kinda hard not to blame myself when it was ultimately my fuck up, however. I’m still dealing with that over 4 years later.

  • AmidFuror
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    -181 year ago

    I’m earning 1.2-1.3x what women in my job are earning, but when we go out to lunch, they want to split the bill according to what each person ordered. That makes me feel guilty, which is very unfair.

    • Cactus_Head
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      51 year ago

      pay grade aside, do you mean that it fills that you as a man must pay the full bill

      i am leaving this comments since your getting higher down vote ratio without an explanation for why

    • @helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      That is an intretresting view.

      I understand, and respect the sentiment. However, in a co-worker dynamic, it makes sense everyone pays for what they order. I think they would feel guilty if you were buying them lunch. If my co-worker payed for my lunch, I’d want to buy for them next time. Putting a bunch of colleagues in an “I owe you” situation (intentional or not) probably isn’t the best idea.

      I think you could offer to cover tip for the table and be within reason.

      If they were making more money than yourself, would you expect them to cover part of your bill? I think most men would say no, you pay for what you eat.

      For a birthday or something, go ahead and push it a little more, but don’t refuse when they return the favor (assuming they are decent people).

      The fact they want to split the check is a big step from the steryotype of women expecting the man to cover the bill. You’re not their wallet, and if they treat you like it, run.

      • AmidFuror
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        11 year ago

        Thanks very much for the good advice. I think I will pay the tip in addition to my portion going forward. That should even the score.

      • unalivejoy
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        21 year ago

        it makes sense everyone pays for what they order

        In my experience, the only time a single person will cover most of or all of the bill is when they are celebrating something, like getting a promotion or moving to a new team.

  • @protist@mander.xyz
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    321 year ago

    “For example workplace harassment by women towards males like touching or groping being ignored”

    This is absolutely not a double standard in society in most workplaces. I’ve never encountered an HR department that wouldn’t take this extremely seriously. I’m not saying those HR depts don’t exist, but they’re certainly not the norm

    • @Randomgal@lemmy.ca
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      131 year ago

      Agreed. Unless you live outside the first world, HR will intervene because they don’t want you to sue the company, regardless of your gender.

    • @Meltrax@lemmy.world
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      171 year ago

      I’m a pretty built dude and my coworkers bring it up constantly. Like my appearance is a regular topic of conversation. It’s not unflattering or rude but if it were a woman they were talking about everyone would think it was super weird to have, for example, the CEO commenting on some woman’s appearance all the time, even to say something positive.

    • @Reyali@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      HR response isn’t the only thing though. A number of years ago, my (F) partner (M) was sexually harassed by his female boss. He didn’t report it to HR, but he did sometimes bring it up around his friends. He had multiple people who base a lot of their identity on their feminism/acceptance/equality views tell him it wasn’t possible for him to be a victim of sexual harassment.

      And then if he brought it up around more normie people, especially guys, the most frequent first question was, “Is she hot?”

      The responses he got from so many people were part of why he never took it to HR. The other part was that she was smart enough to never do it in writing, so it would have been he-said-she-said. It was just easier to get a new job.

  • @Sarmyth@lemmy.world
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    171 year ago

    It’s fairly broadly believed that strong male influences benefit a child greatly, but males are looked at with huge skepticism if they attempt to enter most forms of childcare as a profession.

  • @MellowYellow13@lemmy.world
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    91 year ago

    Basically everything women cry about men doing to them. If it is done to a man by women it is ignored or considered not real or never happened or okay and normalized as you put it.