Ban the entire business model. It’s neither a product nor a service - it’s a scam. Games make you value arbitrary worthless nonsense. That’s what makes them games. There is no ethical form of attaching real-world prices to that charade.
‘Oh, but if it’s only cosmetic…’ Y’mean proof that people can be made to want stuff, even if it doesn’t do anything? Entire games exist to funnel people toward emotional response, and some of them make billions. Saying ‘it’s just hats’ is the opposite of a defense.
No need to ban it. Just dont participate in it.
I’m not-buying-it as hard as I can, and hey guess what? It’s still swallowing the entire industry. It is half the revenue and growing. This abuse is so easy and risk-free that it’s in full-priced, major-franchise, single-player titles. Nobody cares that ignoring the in-game advertisements is feasible. They’re still there, nagging at every player, reminding them there’s a better version of the game if they just open up their wallets and look the other way.
We were never going to shop our way out of this. It is greed exploiting human irrationality. The only real solution is to make companies just sell games. You want recurring fees, publishers? That’s called a subscription. People don’t throw as much money at those? Wow, you don’t say. It’s almost like rational spending decisions look nothing like what this business model sucks out of people.
It’s still swallowing the entire industry
No, it’s not. There’s phenomenal indie games out there. Hades 2, Elfen Ring DLC and Black Myth Wukong are just some of the latest games I’m having a blast with, and then theres still rimworld, factorio, timberborn, CK3, Dead by Daylight … The list goes on. None of those games has Ads for ingame purchases (except DbD) and all of them are phenomenal.
None of them are AAA,truey, but idc. Theres so many fun games out there that idc what ubisoft, EA, Activision or other shit companies release.
I think iPhones are overpriced garbage, yet I’m not sitting here and asking for them to be banned - I just don’t buy it. I bought a used pixel 6, installed graphen, done.
I think casinos are stupid and a waste of money, yet I’m not sitting here and asking for them to be banned. I just don’t go there.
I think Microsoft, google and Amazon are terrible companies, yet I’m not sitting here and asking for them to be banned. I just don’t use their products and services.
Making a change starts with yourself. If you don’t buy their stuff, great - still plenty of great games out there.
‘This systemic problem doesn’t affect me personally, so it can’t be serious’ is hilarious enough without your list of games it hasn’t spread to including a game it has spread to.
I have no remaining patience for libertarianism. This business model is fundamentally abusive. Of fucking course we should regulate that, the same way we regulated gambling, and the same way the DOJ is coming for Microsoft, Google, and Amazon, and the same way the EU has Apple by the nuts. It is perfectly fine for you to say - ‘fuck these business practices, for anyone.’ The fact that you, personally, can choose to ignore them, doesn’t make them any less real for millions of people.
the 10% that said they do? The CEOs
10% of game developers are actually CEOs? That doesn’t make any sense.
if you asked a ceo of a game company wouldnt he tell you he works in game development? also, it was a joke :)
Or management
developers handle design, not finances. Microtransactions have always been in the interest of profit, not to make the games better. They were the markets compromise with gamers being unlikely to pay enough to cover costs of a Triple A development cycle.
Reminder that when the NES came out, it was still $60 dollars for a game, which would be about $180 today. And that’s not accounting for all the extra manhours that now go into the major titles. Microtransactions and DLCs are the deal with the devil we made to keep games from being $200+ a pop
two business partners are chatting and one says, “We’re losing money on every sale”, so the other one responds, “Yea, but we’ll make it up in volume!”
Software costs nothing to copy and paste, only to design.
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If a response would be satisfied by inserting the word “essentially,” please do not make that response.
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Alan Wake 2 (for example) did not spend a decade in development, but somehow blow “pretty much 100% of the budget” after launch.
You can maybe salvage that sentence fragment by insisting we’re talking about multiplayer-only “live service” crap that goes on for years and years after launch… but the topic you named is distribution. The marginal cost of software is essentially zero. Supporting customer N+1 is a rounding error. Valve basically has a monopoly on PC game distribution and only employs a couple hundred people. Do those salaries cost money? No shit. But relative to, conservatively, half the money spent on PC games? Fraction of a percent.
“Keeping people employed” takes a lot of money because making a game takes a lot of people a long time. Shipping is the cheap part. Has been since CD-ROMs. In many infamous cases, people were not kept employed once their game shipped, because all those people were not necessary to make all of the money off of the game.
Games are so damn cheap. It’s insane how cheap games are now. Final Fantasy XVI is going for 50 bucks on Steam and that’s an expensive release. Yesterday I bought several Disgaea games for like ten bucks each and those are a good hundred hours a pop. The top seller list on Steam right now includes multiple games cheaper than 20 bucks. And that’s not even counting all the free to play stuff and the constant sales.
There are great looking and playing games out there that cost less than a movie ticket and a bucket of popcorn. I had to save for six months to get a game when I was a teenager.
I’d hope 100% of customers don’t want micro transactions.
I remember reading an anecdote about a guy’s kid relative, who would describe a game they want to play (not even make themselves), and before describing mechanics even they listed out all the hypothetical microtransactions.
honestly, if they are COSMETIC only, I don’t mind micro transactions. It’s when you are able to get an advantage over the f2p(f2p being players who don’t buy further than the base game in this instance) players that I have an issue with it.
I would argue in some games MT’s are almost a requirement, like the sims has a valid argument for having microtransactions with the community store. (I don’t agree with their predatory DLC/Expansion pack nonsense though).
My rule of thumb is, if the DLC or Microtransaction is something that should be base game, I don’t think it should exist as an upcharge. Single player games to boost your level to the next level? that should be something that is available as base game via a dev console. Wallhack/god mode? should be available as a cheat/dev console. A party pink pinata hat in a game that is a serious shooter? Yea that can be a microtransaction. it’s not something that should be in the original set of files in the game.
I don’t think many people actually have issues with Microtransactions, they have an issue with how hard companies are currently abusing that system.
No because that slippery slope is how we got to current day microtransactions.
the alternative is the content just /not/ being there period though. A studio isn’t going to just supply the content for free, by having the MT’s there it’s increasing content to a game. The studios are abusing it sure, but just don’t buy it. I’ve never once spent money on any of my games for a MT that should have been base game. I have to say I haven’t had any issue with it. It’s there for the people who want to throw money away, and as long as it isn’t impacting me, I don’t care. I would rather have the option available for people to use it, then no option at all.
At the end of the day, Money talks, the studios that are abusing it are doing so because people are willing to throw money away like that. A better solution is to just not partake in the game, let the people who throw money away do their thing, just don’t buy those types of games IMO
Just wanna throw it out there that the Monster Hunter series is a perfect example of in game free content becoming microtransactions in just a few years.
Old MH games had all cosmetic items as free event quest rewards, where you’d get a unique and fun battle to play, and a cosmetic reward for winning. No paid DLC even available to buy. MH Rise (the newest game) has 221 paid cosmetic items listed on their site. That number is not including bundles, soundtracks, character edit vouchers, or the expansion (Sunbreak) itself.
$60 game, $40 expansion, and 200+ paid cosmetics that would instead be free in earlier games in the series.
I have to apologize in advance, cuz I haven’t played a monster hunter game since the PS2, I started playing world but I just didn’t like it. That being said I know the PS2 version of Monster Hunter didn’t have a whole lot(in terms of cosmetics) but again it’s PS2. And I know that monster hunter world had some items available, and that rise is where it apparently was really hit with microtransactions. But from what I understand with monster hunter rise they gave the base cosmetic sets that they normally would have gave with the game, they just offered the paid expansion for the additional skins. Now being as I never actually played rise could be dead wrong on that but Google searching it seems to have given me the same answer.
Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate (released 2018 outside of JP) had a ton of dlc quest unlocks and they were all totally free. It’s proving difficult to find a proper separated list of exactly how many, but here’s a google doc that lists ~200 quest related equipment unlocks, the vast majority of which are dlc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hlBLacFYxdh83a-GkxYnsIF6nH7huP_H2aI4APRGicg/edit?gid=408012748#gid=408012748
Something noteworthy is that’s just quests for equipment. In contrast, there’s only 37 event quests (all event quests are free) in Rise that offer any unique item reward, and 23 of those quests give equipment.
Giving a very conservative estimate with that all in mind, I think it’s safe to say that GU had a good five times more free dlc rewards than Rise does.
Somehow it existed for decades prior to DLC and online shops existing.
The Timesplitters series was practically founded on having so many characters and variants to unlock.
This argument just doesn’t hold water.
That’s just it, you have more items in the games with microtransactions than what you had originally.
At the end of the day you gain more items by having the system in place meaning you have more content, now at the end of the day it’s optional content usually and by all means you don’t need it but to say that this content would have been in the game regardless just isn’t true.
I’m going to use Call of Duty as an example because that is what I saw microtransactions in the most growing up, and even that didn’t start until the I think it was ghosts(?)
they still provide standard Cosmetics that you can put on your guns, there’s still supplying your standard skins and now you have the option to purchase more skins, that is content that they would not have added to the game otherwise, it wasn’t until they introduced that microtransaction style system that most the options hit the table
Hell RuneScape even had microtransactions, and that games 23 years old now(granted it’s a hybrid F2P). You need to purchase in game currency to be able to do specific things and afford some of the items
Sorry man, this is just counterfactual.
I’m glad you feel this way I guess, but before you were born and well into the PS3 and 360 gen, games were still releasing with tons of cosmetic unlocks.
The RPG leveling system of Modern Warfare and the push to tie in game unlocks to your online progression dovetailed with selling skins and cosmetics across the industry. If you were a gamer on the PS2 and the 360 era the difference was like night and day. It’s why people were bowled over when games like Spiderman included so many costumes because the pressure to monetize these would normally be massive.
But somehow, they included dozens of unique designs and outfits without it bankrupting the company. Just like the decades of games prior to the DLC era had. Like magic.
I might have to look into the older game systems I guess i did indeed miss a few of the old school systems, It’s not like I missed most of the gaming era though, my first PC I ever used was a Windows 96, then an XP which I fell in love with (gearhead garage is still one of the best mechanic game you can find[but you’ll have to virtualize it for it to run], same with flight sim 04 and train simulator 1 in terms of simulators). and I grew up with every playstation and nintendo(which I now boycott) product made so far. Basically every system I’ve used has had the ability to buy DLC or expansion packs though, with the exception of the ps1/2, I guess I just don’t see how thats that much different from the current day MT’s. buy it once in bulk via an additional disk with a serial key, or buy it individually, but I can’t say I remember any of my games giving the amount of content that games now have without any extra cost. It’s always been either super basic cosmetic customization, or a paid DLC
I just haven’t had that experience with the games I’ve played. It’s always been the opposite for me. Maybe it was for the best. Every once and awhile I boot up my ps2 cause thats the oldest system i still carry, but like the simplicity of that platform just doesn’t do it, the nostalgic feel can only go so far.
You are the threat to games like Monster Hunter being fun and having community armpr unlocks for free.
This exact goddamn attitude is why execs think things like the costume selection in Spider-man on PS4 is a waated monetization opportunity.
I never said you can’t have Community armor unlocks, and I can’t think of a single game that I’ve played out there that has actively removed quest rewards From the game when they added the microtransaction system. The only thing I’ve seen is an increase in items available on the game via the micro transaction system.
Then again I haven’t really played the monster hunter games either, I never found them appealing
You’re not getting that the microtransaction system replaced free unlocks in most devlopments.
Fighting games used to let you unlock costumes through gameplay. Dozens of them per character.
Now you buy sets of 5 for $12.
I’d argue Capcom is the biggest threat to Monster Hunter being fun, since it’s been years and they still haven’t figured out how to do it, but I digress…
if they are COSMETIC only
Honestly stopped reading here because this is how it all started. Motherfucking horse armor was the very first paid cosmetic dlc, and it’s only gotten worse. Publishers will keep pushing the line for what is acceptable for squeezing money out of players. We have to push back at every turn, otherwise debacles like overwatch 2 will keep happening.
look at what else it has given the field though. Since that was created, user mod stores have become further involved, paid mod workshops and free mod workshops have sprouted up. Cosmetic’s that for the longest time never was even thought of are now sprung up. Character creation has been re-invented basically. None of this would have happened if it continued to be a one-off price. Honestly online servers wouldn’t be lasting as long either as no company will run a game once the profit margin stagnates.
The problem at hand is not microtransactions, it’s consumers willingness to put up with/buy bullshit that shouldn’t be one
This spoken like someone who never experienced mods and entire unlicensed expansions to games being made well before DLC was a thing. I’m sorry but again, this is counterfactual to the reality of decades of PC gaming prior to the launch of the Playstation and Xbox stores where everything was locked down and customization was turned into DLC.
I still can’t believe we sell fucking skins for guns. It’s so callously exploitative.
I started with the ps1(unless you include XP as “gaming” lol) , I can’t give information on what was before that, but if the gaming prior to that is anything compared to what was on the PS1 I’m not holding my breath on the amount of stuff that was actually included in games, but you peaked my interest so if you have examples of games that went above and beyond and gave more content than today’s styled games that have microtransactions I’m definitely all ears I’d love to look into it.
Travelling, but start by looking up Doom wads and Duke Nukem Build engine mods.
These were so plentiful they were put into compilations, and the best were even repackaged with the game in later releases.
Again, tons of playformers and fps titles would previously offer characters as unlocks as well as customization equipment. The Tekken series up through 5 had SO MUCH GEAR. Virtual Fighter up to VF 4 EVO. Fighting games were actually huge with this, and only Soul Calibur seems to have kept it around a bit. They still sell customizatipn packs I believe, but they offer FAR more out of the box than average.
Could list more but unfortunately about to lose signal.
sorry, I am just now realizing I misread your post. I thought you had meant first party content when I originally read the reply. Yea I agree that there are a far good amount of fan made mods and content, it’s still prevailed into the current field. I love when games launch with steam workshop support. I disagree that that content doesn’t exist anymore though. I still play quite a few games that have a store system and have a functional mod workshop on the side.
I do agree that some companies are lowering their access to their API services, or having that as a secondary thought, but thankfully they aren’t at the point where they just won’t allow for third party content period. Well mostly anyway, there are a few oddities out there that have cheat software in place that won’t allow it but thankfully those are few and far between. I’m currently struggling against the urge to mod my elden ring run myself, because I know that trips the multiplayer AC which will remove networking features.
Oh I’m sure a little line of coke won’t hurt. But just a peak into pandoras box…
Your mindset opened the floodgates for this market manipulation 20 years ago and you think we should try more of that?
These companies will never be satisfied until they can leverage your labor for another quarter in the machine.
There is no negotiating. Legislation is required.
I feel like gear progression is massively underrated. I love to dress up with my muscley rpg man, and make him look cooler and more awesome as he gets stronger. I don’t want the best cosmetics locked behind a paywall. In MMOs it also just murders any respect/cred you get from having awesome gear that needed you to clear an epic raid or similar.
I get the whole cosmetics thing for “free to pay” e-sport-esc games though, where there’s not really any gear progression
Fully agree, I like gear progression in games, its been a bit since ive played one that relied on it but, it added stuff to do. I’m not saying that system shouldn’t exist as well. I also can’t think of any games that used that system that removed it when adding the store.
Assassin’s Creed is the best example I can think of. It added a store to literally buy gear. Also see like every MMO. This one is more of a reach, but I’d also say something like Hunt: Showdown falls victim to this, as it would be awesome if you could see a hunter and know their “power level” by the cosmetics.
Horizon, both ZD and FW, are a modern example of having gear progression that exists and isn’t ruined by microtransactions
It always bothered me that Ubisoft sells micro transactions to level up characters in a single player game. Like wtf who is buying this stuff? And why?
Why pay to avoid playing a game?
“Exploration is one of the central pillars of our gameplay. That’s why we’re offering this handy little DLC to instantly fill out your map!”
I’ve seen that kind of DLC a few times for open world games and it’s always jarring.
To be fair, the levelling mechanics in some ubisoft games (looking at you, AC origins) are complete garbage that do nothing but arbitrarily restrict your movement.
Still unsure why people would pay to skip them though.
FYI, for anyone interested in fixing this kind of bs:
there’s a program calle WeMod that easily fixes this kind of thing.
it’s basically an automated trainer platform that let’s you cheat in games with 0 prerequisites, know-how, or effort.
highly recommended for stuff like assassin’s creed, far cry, and similar games with bullshit grind.
setting xp/dmg/resources to something like 2 or 3X literally makes the game playable again!
(probably collects a ton of telemetry, which I don’t care about on my gaming system…)
I’ve never heard of this before, but like I might look into it. I expect this will trigger any client side anticheat under moon though
not really, highly depends on the game… definitely worth checking beforehand though!
haven’t run into any problems so far, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t trigger anti-cheats
According to the 100 developers asked out of the 300 speakers at the event, 89% said that they believe that premium AAA games can be “financially successful just by being Buy-to-Play.”
Moving on to challenges facing the industry as a whole, 55% believe it’s caused by market saturation while another 46% point towards the rising development costs of games. Regarding layoffs, 57% said that layoffs will continue either at the same pace or a higher pace over the next 12 months.
All due respect to Gamescom speakers, but I may have some follow-up questions for at least 35 of them.
As long as whales keep buying stuff they’ll keep putting microtransactions in games. Start making fun of people that buy skins and horse armor and maybe people will stop buying shit that has no value.
Whales are largely a myth created by game companies to create a false class war amongst us rather than holding the truly responsible parties at fault. No different than pitting the middle class against the poor.
Do whales exist? Absolutely. However, the vast majority of mtx money comes from people with addiction problems, mental health issues that make fiscal responsibility difficult, and kids who don’t know any better. Many of whom who are spending money that they can’t afford to spend but can’t help themselves from spending.
These companies quite literally hire psychologists to tell them exactly how to exploit people’s own brain chemistry against them to most effectively extract money from their wallets. Epic Games got in trouble because it was believed that they were trying to create a culture in Fornite that shamed kids for having default skins. Everything from daily login bonuses to seasons and battle passes to rotating stores are designed to keep you logging in and playing and therefore paying. They turn logging in into a habit and then hit you with the FOMO and completing your collection needs.
You’re not going to fix this by shaming people any more than you can cure drug, alcohol, and gambling addiction by shaming people.
The term “whale” just implies a big spender, it doesn’t exlude gambling addicts, dumb children or the fiscally irresponsable.
But when people think “whale,” they think of the rich idiots with more money than sense. They don’t think of the addict being fleeced like kids by cigarette companies. And we need to change that mentality. Because we’re just victim blaming here. You can’t shame a heroin addict into a sober person.
Yes, blame the victims, that always works well.
Microtransactions exploit the fact that some people have addictive tendencies. You won’t “fix” that by making fun of those people.
Which one will happen first:
-
us fed government regulates an industry for benefit of consumer
-
every whale goes broke into poverty…
Asking for a friend
Except the big money isn’t coming from the whales. It’s coming from the gamer equivalent of the little old lady at the casino with her bucket of quarters.
So the answer is neither.
Well at some point peasants going to start owning their retarded consumption patterns… Clearly daddy Sam don’t give a fuck…
For christs sake folks… We live in a country that won’t provide maternity leave to women. Get a ducking clue
Unfortunately, the biggest group of people buying mtx are those with mental health issues/addiction issues and kids who have no concept of fiscal responsibility. And as the saying goes, there’s a sucker born every minute.
These companies have literally hired psychologists to tell them how to best exploit the human brain for maximum wallet extraction. They’re doing the equivalent of casinos pumping extra oxygen into the room to keep you more awake and not having any windows so you don’t realize how long you’ve been in there (plus the easy booze to loosen the purse strings).
Nothing’s gonna change until we can hold these companies responsible for their actions. Ironically, I think review bombing on Steam actually helps since it can make people aware of the exploitative practices these companies are doing and make them avoid these games.
Kids have parents who pay for it and are responsible for their consumption patterns.
Adults gonna need to git gud… We are going to be lobbying US government for this until everybody in this thread is dead and then our kids will keep doing it while poor impulse adults clowns get fleeced
And there are plenty of irresponsible parents. There was a story about 5 years ago I remember of a young kid (like 6 years old) who literally emptied his parents’ bank account on mtx in an iPhone game because they didn’t know it had mtx in it.
And saying that people with mental health issues need to git gud is like saying that people in wheelchairs need to git gud and use stairs. What we need to do is replace the idiots with people who understand how bad this shit is so we can get something done about it.
-
horse armor
OG gamers remember how this all started. We got what the whales deserve.
Horse armor came out in 2006. Micro transactions started in 2002 with Maple Story. Plenty of other games had micro transactions by then. Horse armor was a peak when Microsoft drove too hard and consumers pushed back- it was far from the start.
wait, did microsoft own bethesda back then?
No, but they had a very close relationship. Morrowind was an Xbox exclusive. Oblivion was a timed Xbox exclusive that was supposed to be a 360 launch title that got delayed (the Horse Armor fiasco happened in 2006, while Oblivion didn’t release on PS3 until 2007).
It didn’t start with horse armor. And even then, while clearly stupid, it wasn’t egregious in the way modern mtx is. It was just a poorly priced optional cosmetic DLC. Modern mtx is a whole other beast, where companies use every psychological trick in the book to get people addicted to gambling.
Horse armor was not cosmetic. It was armor.
Otherwise, spot-on. At least people who paid for horse armor got a whole new file for something that was not already in the damn game. Nowadays you’re already looking at the thing, and you’re getting gouged for the ability to say you have it.
Not gonna dispute this but horse armor has a cache
Oh, it had like an inventory functionality? I love Oblivion, but I obviously didn’t get the armor and don’t remember the details. I suspect it also provided defense for the horse? In that case it’s almost approaching Assassin’s Creed’s “buy xp to skip grind” level of egregiousness, but still just a DLC.
apologies… cache as in it was a meme with gamers about paying for it haha as it was a joke but here we are :/
Could you please explain? Now I’m curious.
If the internet was a real a place i would be able to pull article from the time period but search yields jack shit.
but here something now (2020) https://screenrant.com/oblivion-horse-armor-dlc-controversy-explained/
In 2006 - a year after the Xbox 360’s launch - the term “microtransaction” wasn’t even widely known. Instead, Oblivion’s Horse Armor was just called “bad DLC.” But it ended up kick-starting of one of gaming’s most hated and most lucrative business tactics.
Cachet.
Honestly that horse armor implementation would be fine now. Purely cosmetic, wasn’t rammed in our face every time we opened the game, etc.
It gave your horse extra health actually, so not purely cosmetic. But I think in a single player game that also has extremely good modding tools, it doesn’t really matter. If you want to pay to win your single player game, you do you.
Horse armour was mostly a landmark for showing companies that consumers were willing to pay for micro stuff like that. The potential return vs effort invested was crazy. Todd himself said that they try doing nice DLC that gives you good value for your money, but it’s hard to justify business-wise when the horse armour is so cheap to make and sells so well.
slippery slope… and here we are today
Slippery slopes hold no water
Tell that to literally every lake ever… When several slopes join together, you can, in fact, drown down slope.
🤓
Honestly, I’m all for horse armor. Oblivion didn’t do anything stupid like requiring an internet connection, and I could easily ignore the horse armor as horrendous value for my dollar. It’s way worse when they’re prioritizing “engagement” via battle passes or legalized gambling for children via loot boxes.
Star Citizen has a $48,000 package BECAUSE PEOPLE ASKED FOR IT!
They didn’t just decide to do that. There are actually people that said “I want to buy everything you have but I don’t want to have to add one item at a time…” You can only access that package if you’ve already spent over 1k I believe.
There were even content creators that didn’t want to reveal the identity of their viewers, but said they’ve played with people that have spent $100k… I don’t know how true that is, but I’ve watched one of them enough to get a feel for their personality and they don’t seem like to type to make that up.
I’ve played Clash of clans with people that spent up to 2k every month, so I say it’s very believable.
100 people see dumb ad.
40 people click on dumb ad.
10 people play game from dumb ad.
5 people stick it out and continue playing.
1 of those 5 spends money.
Games that are p2w exist in a symbiotic relationship with people who are willing to spend copious amounts of money. The people who don’t spend money and still exist within these games help fill in the environment. ALL players of these games are the problem.
Mobile games are the most common example of this, though other games fall under similar banners. The truth is any free game with live service needs money to operate. Hell, even that fan-run DBZ MMO has costs associated with it that the community helps fund. This won’t go away, it’ll just disguise itself as something else.
I do believe, however, that for larger games the bloated cost of development needs to fuck right off. 100mil and 5 years or more? There is a logistical issue there that needs to be addressed. One of many, I’m afraid.
Start making fun of people that buy skins and horse armor and maybe people will stop buying shit that has no value.
The Team Fortress / CS:GO model of microtransactions was the least offensive and honestly not much different than the pastiche upgrades you could get before DLC, via “Special Edition” game releases and other gimmicks.
Even then, what’s obnoxious about modern gaming is the endless injection of ads. Compare Diablo 4 and Baldur’s Gate 3, and one of the first things that jump out at you is how much more BG3 is a game and D4 is just a grind that demands more and more of your money. Meanwhile, with the exception of an artbook and soundtrack, what you see with BG3 is what you get. They even tacked on incremental improvements after release that weren’t bundled as nickle-and-dime add-ons.
And look who made more money? It was a tie!
I don’t think you can strictly shame Microsoft/Blizzard/Activison at this point, because the current C-level staff can get caught in the middle of a serial sexual harassment scandal and still just shrug it off. I don’t think you can influence them with your wallet, either, because their model appears to work well-enough (even Diablo Immortal brought in half a billion dollars, and that game sucked shit) relative to BG3 which brought in slightly over $650M.
I think, at some point, you just have to ignore these games at a personal level and satisfy yourself with the knowledge that a dozen or so high quality games get released every year, even if they’re swimming in a sea of hundreds of crappy freemium over-promoted titles. Don’t worry about the Whales. Just focus on what’s good.
at some point you just have to ignore these games at a personal level and satisfy yourself with the knowledge that a dozen or so high quality games get released every year, even if they’re swimming in a sea of hundreds of crappy freemium over-promoted titles. Don’t worry about the Whales. Just focus on what’s good.
agreed. I focus on my personal happiness rather than thinking i can change the industry somehow through my purchases. I just focus on my own pride as a gamer and human being and not paying companies who don’t respect me or my time. Then instead of being frustrated by the fact 20 years of ‘voting with my wallet’ didn’t work, i am filled with calm satisfaction at not being taken for yet another ride. and shit, its not like i’m denying myself here… there are so many games.
And look who made more money? It was a tie!
Was it? There’s a very recent infographic from Larian, and if you cross reference one or two of those stats against achievement data, it looks like they maybe sold about 10M copies. That’s lower than I was expecting, but that’s what my math says. Not only did Diablo IV sell more copies at the same price, but there were also more opportunities for them to sell post-launch stuff in Diablo.
The estimates I saw were around $650M for each. Maybe that doesn’t count post-launch DLC.
It’s also raw revenue rather than net profit (I guarantee Blizzard had an advertising budget orders of magnitude larger than Larian) so it’s very possible Larian kept more of what it made.
They are in the same ballpark in terms of successful game making, however you slice it. Both could make an argument for why their model of development worked and why this proves doing things their way is the best method for making money.
Estimates put it around 13 million sales on Steam alone. Say another 5 million from console sales combined to a guesstimate around 18 million.
Unfortunately, the success of Grand Theft Auto Online will cause corporate execs to forever ignore all your good points.
GTA’s been downhill since it stopped being a top-down sprite game.
Retvrn 2 Tradition
Have you tried Rustler? Top-down medieval GTA. Kind of a fun change.
Rustler
This looks pretty great. Thanks for the suggestion.
Been making fun of them since TF2. It doesn’t work when they have no shame and plenty of money to waste.
There are too many people who have way too much money and don’t care. Games with aggressive monetization aren’t going anywhere but the same is true for games made by passionate devs who care about making a good game. Anyone complaining all games are soulless cash grabs isn’t giving smaller indie devs a chance.
Victim blaming. Classy
90% of developers surveyed have no say in the matter
I never really thought devs misunderstood that. They aren’t the problem. Do the same survey with the publishers.
“…The price point, at the time, was the issue. We felt, it’s probably worth this,” he said. “I won’t say who at Microsoft said, ‘Well, that’s less than we sell a theme for; a wallpaper is more than that. You should charge this; you can always lower it’”
Even the horse armor, allegedly, was heavily influenced by Microsoft.
Micro transactions are a cash cow.
But the CEO’s third luxury yacht? What about that?
The first one got confiscated.
He cheaped out on the second.
Now he has to jack up the prices and fire a few workers so he can save up for a proper one in a few years. Third time’s the charm!
Think about the economy! The 10 fired gamedevs are gonna find new employment easily while the chef, 4 security guards, captain and 10 crew are much less in demand!
The obvious
/s
Oh no we have to work harder.
Do it for Yacht.
I mean I understand if it’s a game like Dead By Daylight or something that has regular content updates that need to be paid for, but… there’s no reason why Immortals Fenyx Rising, a single player narrative driven experience, should have me busting out the credit card to try to get some Adventure Time armor that I should just be able to unlock by playing the fucking game.
TF2 and it’s consequences have been a disaster for humanity
