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What a shock, a .worlder advocating for collective punishment and excusing genocide.
If you actually read my comment, the first thing I said was that I don’t support the genocide. I’m merely saying that there has been violence on both sides stretching back to before the British mandate and long predating the formation of Hamas and hesbollah. It’s not a situation you can flippantly sum up with “Israelis are just like the Nazis”. Everyone in Israel and Palestine knows at least someone who has been killed by the other side.
In trying to point out an error, you make a far larger one: by failing to account for the very real quantitative and qualitative differences, you equate the two, and erase the real fact that Israel is commiting genocide in much the same way as the US does with indigenous Americans, to fuel settler-colonialism. The violence reflected by Palestinians towards Israelis has origin in the genocide perpetuated by the state of Israel. Regardless of the pain some settlers may be feeling for having this violence returned, the origin is from the settlers and the only way out for Palestinians has proven to be violence against their oppressors.
the only way out for Palestinians has proven to be violence against their oppressors.
Bullshit.
In an effort to acknowledge a continued commitment to the Palestinian cause on the part of the Saudi leadership, Saudi Arabia and the United States sought concessions from Israel on issues related to the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. As the possibility of an imminent deal gained plausibility in August–September, the Palestinian Authority also became involved in discussions with Saudi Arabia and the United States in an effort to gain sway over the deal’s final shape. But concerns remained that the Palestinians’ grievances in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would remain unresolved and that they would lose a key point of leverage if Saudi Arabia normalized ties with Israel. On October 7, Hamas orchestrated a devastating assault on Israel in part to disrupt the deal from taking place.
Wow, who would have guessed that a “peace deal” solidifying an alliance between pro-genocide states to cement the status quo of settler-colonialism would be opposed by the subjects of genocide for a century? Peace was already tried and yet it doesn’t work, Israel cannot continue its existence as a state without genocide and settler-colonialism of Palestine.
Israel cannot continue its existence as a state without genocide and settler-colonialism of Palestine.
So, if peace is not an option. What kind of resolution are you looking for then?
Victory to the National Liberation movements within Palestine and the dissolution of the fascist Israeli settler-colony, replaced by a single secular Palestinian State, the solution most recommended by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
So when are you leaving north America?
Likely never, instead I will continue to side with and advocate for decolonization and land-back.
Yes but decolonisation includes you leaving native land ie literally all of North America. You can’t advocate for decolonisation and expect to stay. You are a coloniser. As are the Israelis, as were the Palestinians and the British and ottomans and the Arabs, and the Romans and the Israelites before them. None of these people were ever indigenous to the area so “decolonisation” isn’t a valid argument especially when you yourself are not prepared to decolonise native land and go back to Europe (not that we’d take you back).
Blah blah, more lazy genocide apologia.
Not necessarily, as Fanon puts it “The first will be last, and the last will be first.” This doesn’t mean every white person must be exterminated or sent back to Europe, it means Indigenous Peoples must be at the forefront and allowed to redraw national lines as they see fit. The same is advocated for by Palestinian groups seeking the One State Solution.
I think you’d do well to read decolonial theory like The Wretched of the Earth, especially as a European.
Lol. “I will advocate for decolonization! ~(just not for me)~”
You’re a genocide denier, the difference between that and genocide support is just the difference between an honest man and a lying shit stain like you.
And guess what, Israel is just like the Nazis.
Get outta here with yer facts and history!
The Palestinians didn’t pledge to kill all Jews, Hamas did. Like in Nazi Germany, Jews weren’t militant, but Communists were.
But who is the responsible party here? Who first began spouting out rhetoric of annihilation towards a whole ethnic group? Zionists, go back to theodore herzel and the original middle eastern terrorist groups Haganah, palmach and lehi who were responsible for dozens of violent attacks and killed an estimated 6-8000 Palestinian jews, Christians and muslims as well as occupying British forces. In the years before the israeli occupation began These terrorist groups were then simultaneously condemned by the newly established israeli government while their military absorbed their leadership and members into their newly formed military apparatus. Im not saying hamas’s actions are any less awful, but international law does state that indigenous populations have a right to defend themselves by any means necessary and they are clearly defending themselves when you see the ratio of casualties was in the 20 to 1 range and that was before Israel used the 10-7-23 attack as pretense to unleash an all out annihilation of the Palestinian population in gaza and around other settler projects as well.
Israel bears responsibility here and ignoring this while saying “hamas is bad” and “do you condemn hamas” just shows a level of ignorance that is astoundingly absurd. When israel is clearly guilty of rhetoric and actions that are objectively worse but holding hamas to a standard that israel is free from being measured against. What planet are we on here?
Small detail missing from your story is that Haganah itself was formed to defend against increasing attacks on jews
So if your only qualifier is “who first began”, you might want to revisit that
Lmao, get out of here with that revisionist history terrorist apologia. The haganah were violent racist far right ethno supremacist terrorist group.
Even the newly form government of israel was forced to condemn them while they also absorbed all their leaders and members into the newly formed idf.
With your logic the Taliban was also formed to defend against the evil genocidal communists. 🤣
I don’t exacly understand what are you trying to say here, honestly.
Let me clarify what I wanted to say.
- The Israeli government is committing genocide on a large scale.
- Hamas wants to commit genocide and has succeeded to do so on a much smaller scale.
- Not all Israelis are responsible for the actions of the Israeli government, not all Jews are repsonsible for it either.
- Likewise, not all Palestinians are responsible for the actions of Hamas.
- Hamas does justified acts as well, killing IDF soldiers in Gaza is justified as they are an invading army.
- A very small percentage of the acts of the IDF can also be justified, killing armed combatants in the internationally recognized borders of Israel can be. Settlements are occupation, and settlers are illegal unmarked combatants. Killing civilians in Gaza and destroying homes and infrastructure cannot be justified and is genocide.
- Finally, the IDF killing armed combatants in Gaza also can’t be justified as they have shown to not make any efforts towards peace and they are using the excuse of the Hamas attack for a wildly disproportionate response that paints them as the aggressor at this point.
Is there anything from these that you disagree with?
Hamas wants to commit genocide and has succeeded to do so on a much smaller scale.
Fuck off, that’s like saying the occupants of the Warsaw ghetto “wanted to commit genocide and succeeded to do so on a small scale.”
Occupants of the Warsaw ghetto didn’t go into Germany to kill Germans, and they didn’t have a manifesto saying they don’t want to stop until there are still Germans in Germany.
I agree that the two are not comparable, but no amount of genocide conducted against you and yours can justify the genocide you want to commit yourself. Killing an Israeli for invading your home is okay. Killing them because they are a Jew living in the Levant is not.
It’s basically the same argument that Israel can’t justify what they are doing with the Holocaust.
Occupants of the Warsaw ghetto didn’t go into Germany to kill Germans
You’ve never heard of the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
nd they didn’t have a manifesto saying they don’t want to stop until there are still Germans in Germany.
Least incoherent genocide apologist.
but no amount of genocide conducted against you and yours can justify the genocide you want to commit yourself.
Image if you cared as much about the genocide that Israel is committing as you do about the one the Palestinians aren’t committing.
It’s basically the same argument that Israel can’t justify what they are doing with the Holocaust.
Yeah, and it also can’t justify what it’s doing by the made up fantasy genocide you’re accusing Palestine of.
You’ve never heard of the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
Warsaw is not located in Germany. Warsaw is in Poland. Killing invaders is okay. If Warsaw Jews went into Germany, and started rounding up and killing German civilians - like the Soviets did, that would have not been okay. If they went into Germany in retaliation and killed combatants until Germany capitulated, that is also okay.
Least incoherent genocide apologist.
What’s your argument? I never said that Israel’s genocide, or their apartheid policies, or their settler colonialism is justified.
By the way, I did go and look up the Hamas charter, and found this that changed my opinion.
In May 2017 Palestinian political and military organization Hamas unveiled A Document of General Principles and Policies … accepted the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders … at the same time this document strove for the “complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea”,[7] and did not explicitly recognize Israel. While the 1988 Hamas Charter had been widely criticized for its antisemitism, the 2017 document removed the antisemitic language and stated that Hamas’ fight was not with Jews as such because of their religion but with the Zionist project.
So I’d say that Hamas in its current state is not genocidal, though it was in the past. I can emphatize with those goals, and I’d say that as long as Hamas sticks to fighting against the invasion, the settlements and Israeli apartheid policies, it’s arguably a good force in the region.
Image if you cared as much about the genocide that Israel is committing as you do about the one the Palestinians aren’t committing.
But I do. All I’m saying is Hamas killed some Israeli people unjustifiably in the past, while Israel is systematically killing all Palestinians they can. It is indeed the difference of proportions that can’t be overstated.
Yeah, and it also can’t justify what it’s doing by the made up fantasy genocide you’re accusing Palestine of.
Maybe you’re misunderstanding me. To me - and to the UN by the way - genocide is not a question of scale but intent. For example in WWII, the insane amounts of war crimes Soviet troops committed in Eastern and Central Europe were not genocide despite the millions of casualties. Nor was the invasion of France or England by the Germans. On the other hand, Srebrenica was genocide, it would have been, even if only a single person died as opposed to thousands.
What makes genocide genocide is the intent to destroy or displace a population based on their race or religion.
Warsaw is not located in Germany.
It fucking was when the uprising happened.
rounding up and killing German civilians - like the Soviets did
What a shock, the zionist also can’t help but try to slip some Nazi propaganda in there too.
What’s your argument?
My point is that what you said was literally incoherent.
By the way, I did go and look up the Hamas charter, and found this that changed my opinion.
So you were deeply ignorant of the topic, but decided to pop off with pro-genocide propaganda anyway. This is exactly why the genocide has so much support in the West.
So I’d say that Hamas in its current state is not genocidal
Damn, so when you said that Hamas was not just genocidal, but had actually succeeded in committing genocide, you were talking out your ass.
All I’m saying is Hamas killed some Israeli people unjustifiably in the past
The fucking ANC killed some people unjustifiably in the past, so did the Jewish resistance against the Nazis; do we have to fucking go on about it every time we talk about those struggles too? Or just this one?
the insane amounts of war crimes
And here comes some more Nazi propaganda.
genocide is not a question of scale but intent.
Yeah, and remember that you knew fuck all about the intent of the Palestinians, by your own admition, but you went ahead and assumed that they were committing genocidal thought-crimes anyway, because westerners can’t fucking treat us as human.
But, I will say that the Jews in Nazi Germany weren’t committing random acts of brutality against German civilians
Neither are the vast majority of Palestinians doing that to Israelis.
and had never officially pledged in writing to eradicate all the german
See above.
Your comment is not dissimilar from the “all Jews want to destroy the German race” bulllshit the Nazis spewed. Both are sweeping, malicious generalizations that aim to justify the oppression and collective punishment of entire ethnic groups.
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Hitler was elected too.
Just because people have the right to vote doesn’t make them intelligent and informed voters. People vote based upon information they have, and 1930s Germany was rife with propaganda. Half the people are dumber than average, and they all vote too.
They were “elected” before most of the population in Gaza was even born.
The current genocidal Israeli leadership was also democratically elected, and very recently at that, and their approval rating has only increased. What does that say about the majority of Israelis? Why do they deserve your sympathy if the Palestinians don’t because of who they voted for?
but I also understand that it’s pretty difficult for someone who has lost people close to them to to differentiate between the Palestinians who killed their sister because she was a Jew and the ones who didn’t
Care to clarify this BTW?
If you have a friend or family member killed by a paramilitary group that claims to directly represent a group of people you’d be pretty hostile to that group of people too. Same as the IRA claimed to represent Catholics in northern Ireland and the Ulster volunteers sprang up to bomb catholic owned businesses. Or the way that the British army viewed the catholic areas of northern Ireland as inherently hostile places.
Britain has committed serious atrocities against Ireland… Where are you going with this?
Does this logic not also apply to Hamas? Seems like it’s a pretty big part of why they’re so antisimetic then, what with Israel literally claiming to represent all Jewish people in the same way Hamas claims to represent all Palestinians.
Why the double standard then? If you condemn Hamas for its antisemitism, which I agree with, why are you excusing Israel’s anti-arabic actions if they’re based on the same fallacious logic?
I’m not excusing it I’m saying that hammering the all Israeli’s support genocide is exactly the same as saying all Palestinians support murdering babies. Basically you’re equating all Israeli’s with the current rightwing government. It’s like saying all Americans are maga zeallots or all Germans are Nazis. It’s just f##king stupid.
removed you were the one who started with the “Palestinians elected Hamas crap”. Nobody here has been attributing guilt to an entire nation’s population except you.
The meme doesn’t say “some Zionists” it implies all Israelis. It’s a sweeping generalisation as well as being technically inaccurate. I was just pointing that out.
If you have a friend or family member killed by a paramilitary group that claims to directly represent a group of people you’d be pretty hostile to that group of people too.
Damn, you say this and yet you can’t even recognise that Gazans are human enough to have this also apply to then. Except it’s not “a family member or friend” it’s their entire family, and all their friends, and their home, and the city they lived in.
Fuck you, genocide supporting cunt.
What about what I’ve said leads you to believe I support genocide? I simply said that it’s a conflict with too much history for me to assume I have anything to contribute, other than saying that the comparison with nazi Germany is lazy and inaccurate. I don’t support either side. I’m just saying it’s not as simple as you’re all trying to make it.
I don’t support either side.
And this is what genocide support looks like in the polite company.
Israel is an abomination jfc
So you’re ok with kidnapping and infanticide? I’m not accusing or anything. Just curious where you stand on the attack that the genocide is in direct response to.
Failing to support either side of a struggle supports the dominant side, which is undeniably genocidal Israel.
And if the balance flips, so do you?
All of your blatant genocide support is what leads me to know that you support genocide. And guess what, during the Holocaust, you would also have been saying “it’s a conflict with too much history, I don’t support either side.”
Nahh mate only Jews got killed during world war 2 so it was clearly wrong!
